The ped wants us to stop nursing ***UPDATE PG 3*** - Page 7

[sohj]

Another big here.

Another thing, I spent a lot of time really exhausted in the early days of nursing. Remember that your body is readjusting and possibly recovering from the pregnancy and birth, too, in addition to putting out the nutrition in your milk.

Galactogogues are great, but you need to have FOOD. I found that I didn't stop feeling panicky and super tired until I upped my protein and fat consumption. Good stuff of both of them. I mean, I ate in those early days (until about 6 months). I started to feel like all I did was nurse, eat and sleep. Kinda like the baby. I ate fried chicken, spinach and french fries and kept loosing weight. I ate 1.5 pounds of rare steak at a time. I ate 3 eggs and a pint of plain full fat yogurt for breakfast, then ate half a dozen peaches a hour later -- and still I kept shedding weight until the doc was worried. I know that doesn't happen to everyone, but it sure did to me. I felt like my little pixie was just pulling the protein and calcium out of me. :LOL

And my favorite galactogue was Nettles. I made dried nettles into a tea and just drank it all day long. It is rich in iron and it helps in energy, in addition to helping milk production. It also tasted good enough to me to just keep bottles of it in the fridge. I drank it all the time. Iced, hot or room temperature. It is good for the kidneys and good for the blood. And I never tested positive for aenemia. I also took lots of magnesium because it helps with calcium absorbtion.

Anyhow,

[wendygrace]

I'm thinking of you. I hope the fenugreek work's. I also recommend Mother's Milk tea (I have some if you want it just PM me your address) and make sure your water supply is more than adequate. Drink, drink, drink! The thing that helped me the most, though, was oatmeal. Oatmeal cookies, plain oatmeal for breakfast, oatmeal with fruit. Wherever I could add it to my diet. I'd highly recommend it. And it worked within 24 hours for me.

Good luck to you and you are an AWESOME mommy for working so hard to do what is best for your baby.

Ps. Ask the LC that you've been working with if she has any ped referrals. She just may know of a few who know what they're doing.

[miziki]

...just popping in to say "yes, yes, yes!!!" to the 2 previous posters' suggestions, which cannot be stressed enough:

* mama gotta DRINK A LOT - your hydration is really important!! (many pumping moms I know said that there was an impressive difference in supply when they pumped after being well-hydrated vs not)

* mama gotta EAT! - man, one of the worst hungers in the world I have ever experienced was during those first 6 mos of breastfeeding - it would hit me so fast and so hard... try to keep little snacks around in addition to eating regularly, just to keep up your mental sanity and physical strength!

* many moms do swear by oatmeal, stout beer (in moderation of course), nettles, and various supply-increasing teas and tinctures... if any of these sound appealing to you, try 'em out!


And as for the SNS, hang in there. Your dd may be used to the faster flow of the bottle nipple and it could just be frustration at the difference in flow levels between the SNS and the bottle nipple? Just one possibility to consider.

Best of luck w/ selling the house - hope you get a great price and that the move is as easy as can be!

[speedknitter]

Starter SNS vs "real" SNS

Audrey,
My story is very similar to yours, and I have been following this thread from day one. CONGRATS for hanging in there!!

I would strongly recommend getting the real SNS, not just the starter one. For one, it has three different tubing sizes, and you can go with a better flow rate than on the starter system. Second, it is easier to use with the container than hangs around your neck instead of the clip...that way you can use it while you are nekkid to get better skin-to-skin contact with babe.

Keep us updated!!! :

[mollyeilis]

Originally Posted by 3babiesin2years

1.So of course she gained weight when we went to the dr. He was very happy about it. We were discussing what I had been doing and such.

2.He told me that she was losing more calories by nursing than she was getting from the breastmilk.

3.Then we are discussing the fact that she is 3 months old and has started rolling across the room already and is scooting backwards.

4.he says something to the effect that it is only by the grace of God that she is doing as well cognitively as she is considering that she was malnourished when we were not giving her formula.

5.He basically said the formula is putting weight on her so why continue to nurse?

6.Also he was falling all over himself b/c he knows this is all b/c of her being tongue tied. He was talking about how hard it is to see in a baby and how he just sent a newborn to the ENT last week for it just to be safe.


7.The other thing with the ped today was he commented on how she is behind on her shots.

Hi, I just read this today.

Wanted to comment on the above quoted blurbs, in order.

1.What would this guy be doing if you hadn't been so honest with him? If you'd just said "nope, this is all breastmilk, things are going SO GREAT since I saw the LC and had the clipping done." What would he have done? If you decided to go back, what if you tried that?

2, 3, 4, and 5. I would LOVE to actually see the test to determine if this is true. It has always sounded like utter nonsense. And I did caloric tests in college, being an Exercise Science major. First you gotta hook the baby up to a system where you capture all the air going out, and know how much air is being breathed in. You'd have to capture all the heat coming off the baby. You'd have to know the EXACT caloric content of the milk going in. And they'd have to figure out how much heat and air is coming off of you vs the baby.

I can almost guarantee that no one has EVER done this study, and they are all talking out of their behinds when they spew such nonsense as the act of eating is taking more calories than is being eaten.

Also, are they doing calorimetric (totally making up that word LOL) studies on your breastmilk? Say, over the course of a month, finding out the caloric (and protein and fat and vitamin and and and) content of your milk? A sample from each feeding, of course, as milk changes and is amazing and magical. Only then could they POSSIBLY make any sort of judgement on your milk. Have they done that? Have they offered to do it?

As for only taking an ounce in a feed-and-weigh, milk changes. Sometimes it's dense, sometimes it's not. What if the ounce of milk at that particular moment had a HUGE amount of calories in it? What if the ounce a few hours later was lighter in calories or nutrients or fat or whatever, and so instead of just an ounce, she drank 5 ounces? Has anyone ever mentioned that milk changes? I was just reading the other day that when lab animals are given food that is low in calories, they will instinctually eat more. When the food is higher in calories, they will eat less. If lab rats can do this, isn't it very likely that a baby can, too?

She's eating more breastmilk than formula, right? Well, that means that most of her calories are coming from the breastmilk.

And what is with this emphasis on weight? Has she grown TALLER during this time? What was her length at birth, and how tall is she now? Have some of those calories gone to grow her longer, rather than to chunk her up? I know most of my son's calories went towards his height, rather than weight. Why is it that doctors focus so much on pudge, when they are looking at GROWTH charts? Which include height?

And what about all this mobility? He thinks that the mere act of eating somehow sucks up the calories? What about moving around the room? My extremely active and long guy didn't even roll over until well into 4 months. Your girl is moving everywhere! What about the caloric expenditure in THAT?

This ped isn't thinking at all.

Your baby has grown, changed, and started moving very early, with mostly breastmilk. All the formula seems to have done is fattened her up. Is this THAT important? Why does he think so?

I know you mentioned you were worried about dehydration so you supplemented, but it *is* hot outside. Are YOU getting enough water?

6.What if you mentioned you were thinking of suing him b/c he missed such an important diagnosis? Not that you'd do it, but just mentioning it? Since he's falling all over himself now to likely "over"diagnosis tongue-tie, he's obviously very reactive. He's also SCARED. And he's making decisions for his patients out of fear. That's NOT fun to be around.

7.This guy isn't an AP-friendly doctor. He's assuming you don't know what you're doing. He knows nothing about variations of normal in breastfeeding, and the things you can do to help rather than destroy the nursing relationship. He's urging vaxes, and since I assume you'd at least once said a version of "no" to him about them, he's not listening to you. Now, even our naturopath, who is our family doctor, legally has to *mention* vaxes to us at every visit. But when I say "no thank you", she marks it down and moves on. She doesn't sit there urging them. She's done her legal duty, I've done mine, nothing more to be said.

I say find someone, anyone, new. Even if you're not going to stick with that person, find a new ped. Then tell the old ped that you're leaving, and they can send the records to Dr. XYZ. That gets any fear of him calling the authorities, as he'll see "oh she's simply changing doctors" rather than anything else. And then you can decide from there what's going to happen. But since this guy is spending WAY too much time on something that isn't even, really, in his realm (doctors graduating NOW get one, maybe two, classes in general nutrition. they didn't get that probably 10 years ago. so anyone who is an older MD likely didn't get a single class in nutrition, and you can bet your bippy that NONE of them received a mandatory class in infant nutrition), and he definitely isn't seeing what IS going on with your child, which is that she's thriving, despite all these gene-caused (frenulum issues) and doctor-caused problems.


Pant pant pant. Hope all that came out right.

[3babiesin2years]

Hello

I wanted to say thanks for the continued support. I do need it.

I am frustrated and tired. Not that all of you aren't. We all have busy lives. This week was one of those weeks where I felt as if I had a black cloud over me and everyting that could go wrong did, and I was constantly running all week. I was out of the house every single night this week.

Anyway no more whining.

Nursing is going pretty well. She definately prefers me to the bottle which is good. She varies in amounts of formula. Today she had 6oz total, so that's not too bad. I try to only give it to her if she really seems to need it. ie. not satisfied at the breast, thrashing around after nursing, etc. I always nurse first. It just gets tiresome after a while. The nursing, bottle feeding, pumping, taking 40 pills a day in supplements, etc. Some of you know first hand what I mean. It's worth it, just exhausting at times and other times no big deal.

Anyway, the water and food intake for me are pretty good for the most part. I am not losing any weight, so I must be eating something.

I think her problem with the SNS is the tube being in her mouth at all. She doesn't even like to look at it much less put it in her mouth. She wont even try to suck when it's in there, so I think the SNS is out. I am trying to pump after she eats so when we supplement it is breastmilk but I just don't get a lot. It takes me about 3 days to get up 3-4oz.

I actually did think about the fact that if I don't at least change my records from this ped he may get crazy and report me. So I am going to get my act together and at least have the records sent to another one soon. I didn't go at all this week. He wanted me to do a weight check but I really just didn't have time and I feel like she is doing fine. She is growing in length and her head. I don't remember how much but at 2 months she had grown. And she was getting pretty minimal amounts of formula at that point so she is clearly getting more breastmilk than he thinks. I think she gets more breastmilk than formula. I know she did today.

She is happy and rolling all over and trying to crawl. She's not even 4 months yet.

Thanks for sticking with me through this.

Audrey

[studentmama]

I just found this thread today and I just wanted to tell you that you are about the most determined and strong mother who cares so much about her baby that she is going to continue through as many barriers to breastfeeding that I have ever seen or heard of any one person having to overcome to continue to breastfeed(which once again is the best thing for your baby and you) that I hope one day I have even a tenth of your strength. Seriously! You totally rock.

You have gotten a lot of great advice here and I hope you contiue to connect with your local LLL and go to meetings and get even more support irl. the only thing I can comment on is the supply issues just to once again reiterate how important it is to keep nursing as often as you physically can. Because you got such horrible care from your dr. in the beginning you may have to continue to supplement(if the sns is not going to work, how about an eye dropper or something), but don't feel guilty, at least you can still continue your nursing relationship. How about a diaper diary? You may be able to find one online and this can help assure you your baby is getting enough and maybe you really don't need to supplement. babies gain differently and that's normal, perhaps you should look her up on a breastfed baby wieght chart(bf babies grow differently than ff babies so many times peds think they are not growing right when they are really measuring against an irrelevant tool)(does anyone know if one can find one online?)

Can you have another nurse in, like a couple of days where you nurse your baby constantly? Do you have a sling? When ds was 6mo and under I literally tried to nurse him every time I thought he might want to nurse(fingers in mouth, rooting, grunting, sending telegraphic messages to me that he wanted to nurse). If he didn't, he wouldn't and that is how I knew he didn't want to, but if I thought there was a chance put him to the breast.

Can you co-sleep or bring your baby in bed with you at night? I had a friend who had supply issues well into the 3rd and 4th month and tried everything, herbs, pumping, script from the dr., and not until she brought her baby to bed with her at night did it get resolved. If baby gets too busy during the day they can then make up for it at night.

You not only CAN do this, you ARE doing it! You are such a strong mama and kudos to you!

Oh, I just had one more thought, if you still feel like you need to supplement and you don't have enough pumped ebm, maybe you can get hooked up with someone who can donate ebm?

And once again, YOU ROCK!!, You are like the strongest mama I have ever met! Keep on Keepin on.

[wendygrace]

This thread is getting long and I can't remember but have you tried/considered cranio-sacral therapy?

[mollyeilis]

6 ounces doesn't sound like that much at all. Am I right?

I would strongly urge *going* to some LLL meetings. If you have multiple meetings in your area, go to them all! It's not just about problems. I mean, if you have problems it's great, but it's also about support! The same sort of support you've gotten here, but in "real life". In person.

This sounds like a huge bummer, but the woman that read my mom's eulogy was actually a friend she'd met at LLL meetings when I was a baby. They'd stayed friends all those years (I was 30 at the time of the funeral). That just shows you how strong the bonds can be between the women that go there! Definitely go to the meetings!

Also, it was just mentioned again, I would also strongly urge you to call around to massage therapists and/or chiropractors to find someone who does a technique called "cranio sacral therapy" (like I said, it was just mentioned). It's not massage, it's not chiro, but those are the usual people who do it. It's a VERY gentle thing that can help release, oh, tensions? not just tensions but that's the only word that comes to mind, in the cranial area and the sacral area, and that releases stuff in between. I had it done to my son at 2 weeks, and it *totally* changed his nursing style; I also watched the bones of his head and face change to a more symmetrical shape over the day of the appointment. He had been off kilter during labor, and you could see it when he was out, but cranio sacral changed it for the better. People who do this technique are very nice (she says, only knowing a few) and most people will work with wanna-be-clients when their insurance doesn't cover it (usually doesn't) and money is beyond tight. You can call and ask, because cranio sacral is amazing stuff!

I think your daughter's mobility is amazing. Obviously her calories are being used for important things.

Oh!!!! One more, very important thing, I hope you haven't skipped reading. The thrashing around at the breast, in our case, signified he was going for another let down. He'd pull off, pop back on, pull way out to there with nipple still in his mouth, go back in...thrash and cry and act like he wanted to get down then want to have more...and inside of 5 minutes, whammo, more milk. Is it *at all* possible this is going on? I know full well that most women don't automatically think of that when their babies are going wild at the breast. Lucky for me (hmm) I was on serious painkillers for weeks after Eamon's arrival, and all I did was sit and nurse. I couldn't do anything so I just let him do whatever, and that's how I discovered the multiple let-down thing, and that the thrashing and pulling caused it. Most women aren't just going to sit there like I did, so I tell everyone about it, just in case it's what is going on in their case. Maybe it will help!

[miziki]

Originally Posted by mollyeilis

The thrashing around at the breast, in our case, signified he was going for another let down. He'd pull off, pop back on, pull way out to there with nipple still in his mouth, go back in...thrash and cry and act like he wanted to get down then want to have more...and inside of 5 minutes, whammo, more milk. Is it *at all* possible this is going on?

This is certainly one possibility to consider - let us know, Audrey, if you try this and get a good result.

ANOTHER reason a babe might thrash around at the breast, and one that is RARELY if ever spoken of with respect to figuring out breastfeeding (but really can explain things if your kid keeps popping on an off during a feeding and you can't figure out why), is that your baby might have to pee or poop.

Feedings get the whole gastric & bowel system moving (peristalsis, woo hoo!) and young babies often have to go either mid-feeding or just after or within 15 minutes of a meal. Shoot, even toddlers often get antsy mid-meal or just afterwards because they've gotta go. Adults often need to go post-meal, too!

SO... thrashing/popping on & off your breast may just be a sign that your dd has to go to the bathroom. Sure, it could be that she's more hungry, but it could *also* be that she's just gotta relieve herself first before she wants to nurse again.

I can tell you that for the first 8 months of my dd's life, I just continued to offer the breast thinking that it was hunger, but at some point I figured out which "popping off the breast, thrashing around" meant pee/poop and which meant "more milk, please!" You can tell too (does her diaper get warm w/ pee? does she start to fart or contract abs trying to bear down? etc. versus purposeful sucking waiting for your milk to let down). Bottom line -- for young babies, pee/poop sensations can be uncomfortable and they may nurse more/take an extra bottle for comfort when really they just need to pee/poop. Because our western society diapers our babies (most babies around the world are not diapered, esp. in Africa & Asia), we have fallen out of synch w/ the whole "eat - pee/poop" connection, so it's easy to assume it's hunger when it's just another physical need/sensation.

Whoa, sorry so longwinded. I just remember feeling like a puzzle piece had been put into place when I figured out how to read which of my dd's signs meant hunger and which meant "gotta go." Wish I had known it when we were struggling during those first few months of nursing/nipple shields/pumping/exhaustion and I couldn't figure out why she was popping off and on.

Audrey, I've said it before but will say it again: YOU ROCK. And like pp said, you ARE doing this!!! I hope you are able to get some rest this weekend and that next week is easier on you. Exhaustion/fatigue/stress also can mess with your supply, so try to really remain focused on your staying hydrated, well-fed, rested, and whenever possible, relaxed and your nursing will follow in kind (I know, I know, much easier said than done!!!). Congrats on the fabulous efforts and wonderful job you are doing w/ nursing! It really is remarkable given the horrid advice and lack of support from that nasty pediatrician. Kudos to you for being able to see through his ignorance and persevere!

-M


P.S. - If you have time someday (not urgent), would you mind giving the name/contact info of your awesome LC? If you don't feel comfortable posting it publicly, please PM me. I'd also love to know the name of your ped, so that if I know anyone in your town, I can steer them clear of his quackery! But I'm much more interested in your LC's contact info so I can pass it on if any of my friends are in your area and would need it. Thanks!

[HerthElde]

Another thing, I'm not sure if this has been brought up or not.

Trans fats cause a decrease in the fat content (and therefore amount of calories) in breastmilk - avoid these at all costs! Also avoid heat-processed vegetable oils (due to rancidity).
I firmly believe nursing mamas need a lot of fat, especially saturated, in their diets - when I significantly increased the fat (to about 50%) in my diet, my dd started gaining weight quickly.

[Miss Information]

I don't know if increasing your diet to 50% fat is necessarily a good thing, particularly in light of what kellymom says about increasing the fat content of your milk.

http://www.kellymom.com/nutrition/mi...e-milkfat.html

notably this part:

What affects the amount of fat and calories in a mother's milk?

* Mom's diet? The research tells us that mom's diet does not affect the average amount of fat or calories in her milk. However, mom can change the types of fat in her milk by altering the types of fats that she eats

and this part:

The degree of emptiness of the breast is what research has shown to drive breastmilk fat content, and thus calorie content. The fuller the breast, the lower the fat content of the milk; The emptier the breast, the higher the fat content of the milk.

(thus more frequent feeds = fattier and higher calorie milk)

Eating healthier fats and making sure you have sources of omega-6 and omega-3 fatty acids or even as little as 3 tbsp a day of virgin coconut oil (contains lauric acid; other sources of lauric acid - coconut oil, palm oil, butter and breastmilk) rather than the trans fats or other vegetable oils will change the fat content of your milk to better quality fats. coconut oil has gotten a bad rap, but it is an excellent source of saturated fat.

things like flaxseed oil or evening primrose oil supplements, cooking with virgin coconut oil are great fats to add to your diet.

foods also high in calcium will also increase your nutrition as well as support milk supply. almonds, sesame seeds, blackstrap molasses, 20 minutes of sunlight to increase your vit D levels to help you absorb calcium. also avoid calcium robbing things- carbonated beverages, caffeine, limit animal protein

improving the quality of your diet will improve the quality of your milk.

If you can get a hold of a book called Mother Food by Hilary Jacobsen, it has a wealth of info regarding nutrition to support the bf mother with discussions of various herbs and foods used as galactogogues throughout history and in modern day times. (although I knew about the benefits from coconut oil a long time ago- it's actually antibacterial, antifungal and has a whole bunch of other benefits).

Barley water is a cheap and effective galactogogue - cheaper and tastier than beer without the alcohol.

For about 69 cents i purcahased a quart sized container hulled barley from a health food store (from one of their bulk bins) and boiled 3/4 cup of the barley then simmered it for 2 hours in about 3 qts water, adding more water as needed so that when it was done i had about 1.5 qts. Strain the water and save it into a large container, dump the barley or use it for a soup or something. You can drink it like that or add some fengreek powder (just open up one of the capsules if you have them and add it to a cup). And drink this throughout the day. You could make this each day for about 2 weeks and it should help improve your supply without breaking your budget. It's a little time consuming, but boy is it cheap.

[HerthElde]

I would say for the average mama who is in good health, it probably doesn't make much of a difference what she eats, you're right. Me, I'm pretty poor at absorbing nutrients, and quite nutrient deficient right now, so if I don't prepare my food in such a way as to maximize digestibility and nutrient absorption, I notice a HUGE effect in both my energy level and mood. After 9 months of nursing dd, I was in really rough shape, and may not have made it nursing much longer had I not discovered Nourishing Traditions by Sally Fallon. Unfortunately, their information on breastfeeding is rather poor, but the information on nutrient absorption and food preparation, as well as the benefits of a higher fat diet and the fallacies of the lipid hypothesis and such have been incredibly valuable to me. Dd started doing much better as soon as I started to prepare my foods in an easily assimilatable way . . . basically, if mama doesn't have a nutrient in her system, baby isn't going to get it either. Nutrition is an entire concert of enzymes, vitamins and minerals all working together to help each other become absorbed. Additives in the "food" that sits in our supermarket shelves cause nutrient depletion, and IMO, so can a low-fat diet. In my case, I was severly fat-deprived, deprived of fat-soluble vitamins, and absolutely needed to increase my intake. I've learned to follow my cravings, and I've fewer health problems now (was heading to arthritis with curled toes and numb ankle and hands, all better most of the time, kidneys were hurting all the time, rarely hurt now, and I could go on like this . . . and I'm only 26, btw)

[Justice2]

First Way to go Mama!!!! Many MANY women would have thrown in the towel!!

Also, if you are going to take Fenugreek, it works much better with Blessed Thistle. Also, taking Fenugreek - Do you smell like maple syrup? I didn't read all of the pages or posts, but if you are prone to depression it is not a very good idea to take Reglan. Really, nursing problems are plenty depressing all by themselves. Unless the FDA has rescinded (hey, it's 6:30 am here and I can't spell without plenty amounts of coffee!) their order, docs cannot prescribe Domperidone (they yanked it right after I got mine when I was nursing K, that was almost 2 years ago).

Again, you Rock Mama!!!

[Miss Information]

Originally Posted by HerthElde

I would say for the average mama who is in good health, it probably doesn't make much of a difference what she eats, you're right. Me, I'm pretty poor at absorbing nutrients, and quite nutrient deficient right now, so if I don't prepare my food in such a way as to maximize digestibility and nutrient absorption, I notice a HUGE effect in both my energy level and mood. After 9 months of nursing dd, I was in really rough shape, and may not have made it nursing much longer had I not discovered Nourishing Traditions by Sally Fallon. Unfortunately, their information on breastfeeding is rather poor, but the information on nutrient absorption and food preparation, as well as the benefits of a higher fat diet and the fallacies of the lipid hypothesis and such have been incredibly valuable to me. Dd started doing much better as soon as I started to prepare my foods in an easily assimilatable way . . . basically, if mama doesn't have a nutrient in her system, baby isn't going to get it either. Nutrition is an entire concert of enzymes, vitamins and minerals all working together to help each other become absorbed. Additives in the "food" that sits in our supermarket shelves cause nutrient depletion, and IMO, so can a low-fat diet. In my case, I was severly fat-deprived, deprived of fat-soluble vitamins, and absolutely needed to increase my intake. I've learned to follow my cravings, and I've fewer health problems now (was heading to arthritis with curled toes and numb ankle and hands, all better most of the time, kidneys were hurting all the time, rarely hurt now, and I could go on like this . . . and I'm only 26, btw)

Oh, I do agree with you wholeheartedly. If you can't absorb the nutrients from food sources, your baby won't get them from you. My sister has celiac and until she eliminated all sources of wheat and gluten, her damaged small intestine could not absorb nutrients. I do agree with that fats are necessary for the assistance of nutrient absorption. Coconut oil is very effective in doing this. I hope you weren't offended, I didn't mean to negate what you were saying. I do agree there is misinformation out there about fats, cholesterol and the like. I do agree there is an art to balancing nutrition for maximum absorption.

I guess I was a little concerned for the average person to increase fats up to 50%, especially if you include the "wrong fats".

It's a complicated business, trying to get it all down right.

Thanks for elaborating for me.

[veganbaby]

I am so happy for you! I applaud you for keeping it up and never giving up!!! I'm glad that they fixed the tounge. Too bad the ped didn't catch that early on.

DD also has trouble gaining weight. She is 11 months and still under 13 lbs. So they weigh the same. I believe she is 12 lbs 10 oz. Mine started off smaller though. ( 5lbs 12 oz) But just wanted to say keep up the good work!!!!

[3babiesin2years]

Thanks

I wanted to let you know I started a new thread. This one is super long. new thread

Audrey