The ped wants us to stop nursing ***UPDATE PG 3*** - Page 2

[3babiesin2years]

coco4cloth I can't imagine having this kind of pain for months. You are such a strong woman. Coming here just amazes me. Seeing what women will do for their babies. I have one friend in real life that is really sacrificing to nurse, but most of the people I know just give it up. And are kind of telling me to do the same.

snugglemama My reason for pumping some is that it hurts less than nursing. And when I have less milk nursing hurts even more. So yesterday when I felt like I didn't have a lot of milk and I was so anticipating the pain, I gave her a bottle and pumped instead.

thought the nipples would tear off That's a very accurate desciption of what I feel like.

DD was having green mucousy poo from foremilk/hindmilk imbalance at first, and that can cause slow/no weight gain. Yes!! Leah had these for the first 5 weeks. And then all of a sudden, they started looking more "normal." They are the "right" color and everything now. Occasionally she will have one that looks weird again but for the most part they look better. Hopefully that means it's getting better.

Ok I am going to get the tinctures and the GSE and see how that works. I called my midwife yesterday but I realized at 9pm that she didn't call me back.

Short of seeing another LC (just don't have the money right now) how can I be sure it is thrush or not? I do have the burning the whole time she is nursing. I do have the deep shooting pains. The bright red nipples. But that's it. I don't see my midwife for another 2 weeks. I guess I can just treat it as though I have it and see if the pain improves?

I do have 4 /4oz bottles of EBM saved up now so at least I can give that to her instead of formula for the next couple of days if I am dying. My dh is being really supportive but even he is getting to the point of wanting me to quit just b/c I am so miserable. But at the same time he understands how bad I want it to work so he is being understanding.

Thanks

[alegna]

Please, dump the bottles. Use a cup, use a dropper, use an sns, but drop the bottles. It's making life harder on your nipples (and been there-done that- you don't want that!) Your baby is switching back and forth between two sucking patterns. Every time you give her a bottle you're telling her to suck your nipples like that- then she does and it hurts you more. Get rid of the bottles. Every last one.



-Angela

[Childishgoth]

similar situation

hey keep in there, now i cant tell you exactly about your baby but ill tell you what happen with my baby.

because of my low milk supply ds would latch on and just suck so hard that it hurt so bad. thats because he was trying despretly to get more milk. once i started using an sns feeder that all changed. HOWEVER because of the way the sns works based on gravity and just gives the milk out with out the baby needing to work for it, it really affected my supply. I found a book called defining your own success. and i HIGHLY recommend it. the book is for women who have had breast reduction surgery.. but i just skipped those parts and read more about breastfeeding in general. thats where i found out about the lactaid nurser. i really love it, when my milk is flowing well in to his mouth he dosnt suck as hard and dosnt take as much formula for the lactaid, if my milk starts running low he sucks harder and gets formula form the lactaid but he is not sucking anywhere as hard as he originaly had with out the lactaid.. so no more sore nipples.
also the book has LOTS of suggestions on increasing milk supply. with the use of the lactaid and her suggestions i was able to go from 3% production to ovr 50%.

please dont give up. if you ever need to talk feel free to email me or ill even call you. i know its hard trust me.. there were so many times i just wanted to quit but my bf friends were there to lend support.

Oh and on the ped end. god we went to like 4 ped that all told me just to give him a bottle, we finaly found a gp that was like WOW LACTAID! Good mama!!! and told me not to give him any other liquids and to keep at it. so just keep looking


ps.. I couldnt pump any milk even with the pump from the hospital.. (long story) so thats why i used formula.. but if you can use pumped milk then please do.

[3babiesin2years]

Thanks for sharing your story.

What is a SNS and a lactaid?

[Childishgoth]

sns
and
lact-aid

The sns is basicly like a little container that you put your milk in and it has 2 small tubes that come down, you place it next to your nipple and the bottle is hung upside down from your neck and the milk comes down the tube to your baby. i didnt like it because it was bulky and akward. but its cheep and wic covers it fo free.

the lactaid on the other hadn is a bag you will up with milk (they are presterlized bags) and you hang around your neck, the bag is thin so its close to our body adn then you take the little tube and place it next to your nipple and the baby latches on. when she sucks to drink she sucks the milk in to her mouth.. kind of like a straw. i use my lact-aid at home and out on the go. i just take a little cooler and when its time to nurse i slip it on put it under my shirt and no one has to know.
i suck at explaing thigns o if have any qusestions let me know

[twindaze]

I went through this with one of the twins. He'd nurse, but he wasnt' gaining (at all in his case, he also wasn't having bm's.)

Anyway, I had to do this routine. First I nursed him, then I gave him a bottle of formular or EBM, then I pumped. Now, luckily I had employed help or there would have been NO WAY that I'd ever have found the time to pump with twins and a toddler. At 11 weeks I was mostly giving EBM in the bottles, so I decided to take a "nursing weekend" and give up the bottles, and it worked! But the important thing to remember is to "feed the baby." That's the first rule in lactation problems, the second rule is "move the milk" (nurse and pump.) I found that dark beer (Warsteiner, one per day) did help increase my supply by a few ounces or so btw.

As far as the thrush goes, and it does sound like you have it, you do need to treat both of you. Have you had the baby looked at by a ped to see if she has thrush? My oldest had it at one point and it was way back in his throat where it couldn't be easily seen.

I also rented a Medela scale, the one where you weigh the baby before and after to gauge how much milk he's taking. So that's an option that you might want to consider. It also let me track his weight gain.

Hang in there, you can definitely do this.

[sbgquilt]

Keep trying and find local support for yourself. it's worth it.

[3babiesin2years]

OK just stopping by to say that the GSE is DISGUSTING!! That is the nastiest stuff I have ever tasted. I also bought some fenugreek yesterday. Does anyone have a dosage on that? One of our problems is that we have no money right now so I am having to just improvise. The fenugreek was much cheaper than the motherlove stuff so for now I will just use that.

The ped didn't see any evidence of thrush so how can I treat the baby too? If I am taking something does that count for treating her?

Last night we nursed and nursed and nursed. I am so sore but she only had 1 1/2 oz of formula before bed where previously she had been having 4 oz and she hasn't had any today.

[coco4cloth]

Originally Posted by 3babiesin2years

OK just stopping by to say that the GSE is DISGUSTING!! That is the nastiest stuff I have ever tasted. I also bought some fenugreek yesterday. Does anyone have a dosage on that? One of our problems is that we have no money right now so I am having to just improvise. The fenugreek was much cheaper than the motherlove stuff so for now I will just use that.

The ped didn't see any evidence of thrush so how can I treat the baby too? If I am taking something does that count for treating her?

Last night we nursed and nursed and nursed. I am so sore but she only had 1 1/2 oz of formula before bed where previously she had been having 4 oz and she hasn't had any today.

Are your swapping your nipples with the gse??

You both need to be treated! Even if the babe looks fine! You don't want to get into the routine of passing it back and forth.

Here is a good link
http://lactinv.com/tscreen.htm

Make sure you eliminate sugar from your diet!

You can always try Gentian Violet! It's messy but works and you can get it at most pharmacies.

[Destinye]

Originally Posted by T a r a

For increasing supply: try Mothers Milk Tea, fenugreek, oatmeal, malt, or ask your doctor for a script for Reglan or domperidone (which you can either get at a compounding pharmacy or order from overseas)

Oatmeal worked great for me when I had some low supply issues and was really skeptical it would. Delicious too! Well *I* like it!

[Childishgoth]

Oh i cant beilive i forgot , try goats rue. the stuff is so nasty and its like 4 drops per 10lbs of body weight. i just stuck it in apple juice and chuged it but i could tell the diffrence by the next day.

its expensive but it works so fast.

the fennugreek is 3-4 pills 3-4 times a day.

I took fennugreek, blessed thistle , bitter fennel, mothers love and umm all the teas. but goats rue is what i noticed the most diffrence with.

[3babiesin2years]

Thanks for that link

After looking at that, we have none of those symptoms. We have no white, no diaper rash, and my nipples don't look like that. I haven't been on antibotics, or any of those things. And the major thing is this is not new pain, it's been like this the whole time. Has anyone experienced this pain just from nursing itself? Is it possible that it just still hurts and I my nipples need to toughen up more? I just hate to buy all this stuff and treat us if we really don't have it.

Thanks
Audrey

[Earthy~Mama]

Originally Posted by alegna

First off

Then - alot of good info here. I'll add my overview and $.02

treat the thrush -somehow
dump the ped.
dump the formula
get rid of the bottles
get rid of any nipples but yours
nurse as much as she will (yes, I know it hurts- been there )
nurse some more
nurse as long as she will
never pull her off...
if she asks to nurse, nurse
if you think she's hungry, nurse
if she wants to suck, nurse
if you wake up in the middle of the night, nurse
see a theme here?

My dd was a terror to nurse the first month or so- blood blisters, cracked nipples, bleeding nipples, thought the nipples would tear off....

Hang in there! Kudos to you for being willing to stick with it. Sometimes it DOES hurt, but it gets better, I promise.

-Angela

ITA with Angela. I also want to add that you maye want to get a wrap and learn how to nurse while wearing it. I would be lost without my wrap.

[snugglemama]

I highly suggest contacting an LLL leader. It would probably be much more helpful to have someone brainstorm/trouble shoot with you in person. Some leaders will even come to you for free to see if they can tell what's going on. And if not, you could go to the next meeting, which is also free. A lot of times leaders have more experience than an LC.

But if that's not an option, maybe if you describe the pain in specific detail, we can try and help you figure it out. If it's mostly nipple pain, maybe it's due to the baby switching back and forth between sucking patterns, as someone suggested earlier. But a shooting, deep pain may mean something else. It sounds like you are pretty sure it's not thrush.

Keep hanging in there, you're doing a great job of sticking with it! Many mamas would have quit by now! You are obviously strong and determined (and your baby will thank you)!

[maxwill129]

Okay. It sounds like you don't think it's thrush anymore. I had horrible pains in my nipples (shooting pains) and my nipples were red. Everyone told me it was thrush (I actually thought maybe that's what you had and had posted that earlier) and I was put on 4 different medications because it wouldn't go away. My dd was put on 4 different medications because you have to treat the baby too. Nothing seemed to be working. I would CRY when dd would start stirring and I knew she wanted to eat. It was horrible. The pain was so excruciating. I would cry for the entire feedings. But you know what? In the back of my mind I knew it wasn't thrush and it turned out not to be. I had 2 LC's tell me I should quit nursing because my thrush couldn't be treated, and I almost listened, but I was SO DETERMINED TO BF!

Anyway, I ended up calling a LLL leader. She worked with me for hours. She was awesome, but I was still in pain. One suggestion she had for me was to put lanolin on my nipples immediately before a feeding to dull the pain (and it really worked). I finally saw an LC who looked at my nipples and told me that my skin just looked irritated. What?! I thought that was the most ridiculous thing I had ever heard. She told me to put lanolin on right before I nursed, right after I nursed, and anytime I could remember in between. She said my nipples were just dried out. She also said to put lanolin on before showers to keep the water from drying them out. Within a few weeks, everything was fine. I still get sore nipples if my daughter nurses a lot in one day, because I get dried out. I know this sounds corny, but after 10 weeks of painful nursing I was willing to try anything and by 12 weeks I was nursing pain free.

Hope this helps and you understand what I said. I'm trying to type fast because my little ds just got out of bed!

Shannon

[alegna]

Oh it's quite possible for your nipples to hurt like you can't believe and not have thrush. No thrush here (ever) but boy those first couple of months hurt like the dickens...

hang in there! It's worth it in the end.

-Angela

[3babiesin2years]

Thank you so much for all the encouragement. DD only got 2oz of formula all day yesterday. I didn't even have to give her a bottle before bed like I had been doing.

How do I contact a LLL leader?

The lanolin idea is good. I have some natural stuff like that and I was using it at the beginning. I think I will start that again too.

The more I read about thrush, the more I think maybe this is not it. This oain has been consistent form the beginning. And I am thinking if it was thrush I would see some white in dd's mouth by now.

I do know that this kid has a very powerful suck. Which could be a result of her having to work so hard to get it out. But when I take her off and usually I have to, she has indentions and red lines on her face and nose. But you know what? yesterday she actually started popping herself off on her own. Does that mean she has gotten enough? It seems like she was satisfied.

Audrey

Audrey

[maxwill129]

I wanted to tell you that a friend of mine (who has 4 kids) nursed all of them. She had no problem with the first 3, but the last one, her dd, she had HUGE problems with pain. She said that her daughter had such a powerful suck that she could stick her against the wall and she'd stay because of the force from that suck! I think it IS possible that this is the problem.

Also, if your ds is popping off by himself and seems satisfied, he's probably had enough or needs to burb and then go back on. I'm not sure of your ds's burping habits, though (my daughter never needed to burp, so when she'd pop off I knew she was done).

Please DO NOT GIVE UP! I nursed my first dc and gave up after 3 weeks because it hurt so bad. With my dd I was having the same pain, but decided to stick with it. It really sucks when nursing is not enjoyable, but once you get past that first couple of months, I'm telling you, you will be SO HAPPY that you stuck with it! Please, anytime you need encouragement we're here for you. I just hate to see a nursing relationship ruined. You can do this! Just remember how important this is to, not just your ds, but to you too!!!

Oh, and you can go to the LLL website: www.lalecheleague.org/
to find a LLL leader in your area. They should help you, but if for some reason you call one and she doesn't seem interested in getting together with you or isn't listening to you (I had that happen) call another one. There should be more than one in your area.

Good luck! You're doing AWESOME!

Shannon

Also, I totally agree that if it was thrush it wouldn't have been painful from the beginning and although it's possible for your ds to not ever have symptoms, I think it's unlikely that by now he doesn't have white patches in his mouth. Trust your gut.

Oh, and I have to tell you that I LOVE the name Audrey (it's #1 on our baby name list for the next time we have a baby!)

[snugglemama]

I just wanted to add, it is not unusual for a newborn to want to nurse for 40 minutes or more at a time. Probably totally different than bottle feeding. So if possible, nurse until the baby tells you she's done. I can imagine that with three others this may be hard at times, but it's the best way to make sure you have a good supply and baby is full. Sometimes she'll go through spurts when she's nursing even more than usual, or seems like around the clock. This is normal too, it means she's going through a growth spurt and needs to up your milk level. Isn't it great how mama and baby can work together as a team?

Hang in there, you're doing great!

[Steady101]

Good for you for sticking with it. And your ped is an a$$.

I didn't read everything but pumping a little off and then making sure he is getting the fatty milk will help too.