Janulicious June Thread #2 - Page 2

[jessitron]

But Lisa, they don't make nearly as much money off the natural births!
I do hate it when women say, "My idea of a natural birth is going to the hospital with no makeup." Yeah, a lot of good that does for your baby. Maybe his anal-to-genital distance will be a little longer, just because you did that.

My gosh you people were busy last night and this morning.

[jessitron]

Oh no, Pam, not again!

Laura, megan is BEAUTIFUL! Wow, those eyelashes, and that smile, and the little nose - aren't you in danger of bursting from the sheer cuteness of her?

Heidi, hilarious about the cutie booty crack. One of my favorite pics of Evelyn is her standing up, naked, from behind.

Article: mostly crappy. As we well know, women can breastfeed and work. I'm all for that law that would force employers to accommodate it. I figure, smokers take smoke breaks; I can take pump breaks. Usually I read something work-related while pumping.

Nicole, I'm like you: I think I would go crazy home with the baby. It all works out for us: I make more money than DH, we have the big house so that Nana can live with us comfortably, and I don't feel bad because Evelyn is with her grandmother. People used to say, "Wait until you have a baby. Then you'll want to stay home." but I really don't. I'd love to stay home a few more days per week, or to work shorter hours.

Thanks for correcting the ways/weighs. I totally missed that.

Ann, don't be embarrassed to have a housecleaner see your house! By calling her, you're acknowledging that your house in unacceptable. Therefore, she'll know that you do not live like this by choice.

Heidi, sorry to hear about your cousin. She's a normal woman, treated in a typical fashion - that is, badly!

[quote] I just never can understand how they can be SOOO unprofessional when a mw does something a teeny bit out of the norm and everyone is all over her.[quote]
Amen! Like that medical degree is a mandate from God, or something.

On the 4 1/2 wk-late delivery: good for that OB, for sweating getting the baby out with forceps! Finally, one who works hard for his money.

Joyce, it sounds like you had a great doctor. That's awesome. If more OBs were like that, we wouldn't have to bitch nearly so much on here.

I read somewhere that "cesaerean birth" is a much better term than section, when referring to the baby's arrival and not to the cut itself. ITA. Those mamas don't have it easy, esp the ones who know better.

Heidi, no wonder Martin is soooo attentive to Iris. He's really making up for his dad's absence.
On dads working - not always a bad thing. My dad didn't work much. He was lazy and didn't like it. So, he was usually around the house; we saw him a lot, and he did play with us, but a dad I could have respected would have been a lot better.

Midwives and working and finding a balance. Heidi and Karen, your work is incredibly important to the other women, but at the same time it's a huge sacrifice. I do not envy you your calling or the choices it gives you. If your birth center got big enough, Heidi, then you could leave the deliveries to other midwives and do the administrative stuff during normal hours, with Iris near you. It may take years for the business to develop to that point. It does seem like all signs point to you being meant to continue your work, to one degree or another. I hope that you can find a place for it. With Martin working from home and being such a great dad, the possibility is there. Are there any people there who are almost family?

Evelyn is not crazy about green beans.
Yep, Eric came home last night and the family rejoiced. He was very happy to see us. Evelyn was happy to play with him. Glad to hear Jerry came home early.

Az, are you out there?

[jessitron]

Hey, are there any good Dad T-shirts out there?

[Malama]

: Andy- senior member. I think there's somewhere you go and request one- look on the main page adn I know there's a link for it. I haven't even thought about one for myself, so mine is "senior member" for now.

Lisa- yeah, I did use c-birth intentionally. I know I read, or it was at a conference or something about how when we call it a section is takes away the fact that it was a BIRTH. Heidi gave BIRTH by ceserean. Just c/s takes the mama out of the equation and that's wrong. It's bad enough that many moms who've had c-births feel like baby was taken from them, but many feel absolutely positive abotu their experiences. they gave birth. I believe language is a powerful tool and I try to do what I can.

Sheri- the way E is acting pretty much sums up Luka's day yesterday. mama. it was draining, but he seems happy now. hang in there!

Laura- there's no doubt in my mind that bm is just plain healthier for babies. I think what you saw in the NICU was reflective of that and my heart aches for the little one who you said was on all different types of meds. I do believe that babies DESERVE bm. and I think that if we completely changed the way we think about things, we could get all babies bf, but the american way is very individualistic on the whole. it's not popular here to be burdened by people/kids/whatever- just jobs : We're so afraid here of taking away mom's choice (at least in this sphere) that there is barely any hard hitting stuff about bf. they majorly softened the breastfeeding ad campaign because formula companies complained and complained. lame.
one country in the netherlands had low bf rates and they pounded the public with info and changed their rates to a high 90's% of bf- and bf that continued..... sorry. rant over.

Nicole- yeah, I think Luka is teething. I have been giving him hylands and they work, but just not for long. But who knows what it was yesterday.... something anyways.

Lisa- I think you can count Luka in with the food sensitivity babies. I took out wheat last fri cuz he had a persistent bumpy face adn today I'm noticing that it's gone. I guess I'm both happy and very I LLLOOOOVEE bread. BUT, I'm gonna go a few more days w/o it and see if I can eat it occasionally (like rotation diet). Esp considering we're going on a big trip soon and it won't be as easy to stay on a diet. I wish the lack of wheat affected my excema though- it's horrible since Luka was born.
And No, I didn't try Andy's recipe yet because I have to get the ingredients (weird flours).

Pam aren't stomach ailments fun??

BTW, HI does have a law for employers to provide space and time for pumping. other states do too.... imo Necessary

jessica- yeah, staying home with baby is not always easy. sometimes I have wished for just a little part-time job- one where I didn't have to pump and could just get away for a bit. I actually did do that when Noam was about 9 mos. but the pay was absolutely crap.
I say woo hoo to the working pumping moms. I have a close friend who is the major wage earner in her house. went back to work at 4 mos with both kids and then worked 4 10 hour days with pumping. she nursed at night to bond more with babies and then ended up pumpong for 2 years with each kid!!! and her kids are just awesome. dad toon care of them most of the time with 1 day a week with a sitter. they are very well-adjusted too it CAN be done!

Luka's ready for some mama attention.
to you all!

[Malama]

jessica- not obvious here what they are, but granola threads has a dads section

[jessitron]

Yeah, I just ordered from Granola Threads, but their dad designs were few and lame. I got the "I gave birth without drugs" on a Glamourmom for me, and the "Breastmilk: it's what's for dinner and breakfast and lunch and whenever else I want it" for Evelyn in 24 mo size. The one I really wanted to get her is "My mom is weirder than your mom." Another time; shipping was only $2.50.

Ooh, I downloaded some awesome pics from the camera to the computer last night. I can't wait to post them. Kids are magically more photogenic when they can sit up.

[LEAW]

Oh Pam, healthy poo to you guys!

OH $h!t. I just had a HUGE post and somehow I managed to erase the entire thing. BOOBOOOOHOOOOO!

Going back up the page to start typing again. Back to Pam's post and then on!

Jessi, yah it's all about the $$. The head of anesthesiology was the one to do my epidural, his fee was $1700 plus the $ for narcotics. He's also in the dvd, "blah blah, pain management, blah blah, we like to get the mothers as comfortable as soon as we can, blah blah" apparently he yelled at my m/w for not giving an IV to every laboring woman as soon as they arrived. She stood her ground and told him that when she could come into surgery and pick the drugs he got to use, then she'd start letting him make decisions in obstetrics.

Can you take a "smoke" break too? Like, look at me, my pump is smokin'!!

Ok you guys have changed my perspective on c-birth. But I reserve the right to call them sections when people say things like "I had an elective c with both my kids" and "oh yah, it's great, next time I can just schedule the day instead of waiting to go into labor" ugh, just ugh!

Karen, I honestly think there are more allergies out there than the medical folks want to admit. For me, I know something in the first 10 foods is bad on my face, but I'm not really excited about eliminating foods again to find out. Like your eczema, there is probably something triggering it, my face is all a mess too, it was so nice and clear when I was on turkey and turkey and more turkey, but whatever the allergen is, it took a while for it to build in my body. I'm going to wait until I'm back on a mostly full diet before eliminating the first 10 foods again to figure it out. At least I know which 10 foods it is!

State law for pumping is good, but really we need to add it to the pregnancy/maternity/new mom things as a part of FMLA or something similar. National law must happen.

Working/being home thing - I'd like to get a part time crap-pay thing maybe in the fall or winter, just to give me 8 hrs a week alone. Selfish yes, but so necessary. I think working at the expensive kids place for the discount would be nice, or maybe the expensive mom clothes place.
Actually I know I want to be in education. I love going to school, I love teaching, I love education. So I need to pick something - childbirth classes, LC, baby care, something, and get certified in that. And I plan on going back to school when Lauren's youngest sibling is about 3, I'd like to start a phd then. You get 5 years for that, so I could start out part time and then go full time once the little was in school. So many things I want to do!

Jessi, I got the same one for Lauren, and I SO WANTED the weirder one too. It's soooooo fitting for us right now. We're really out of place here in Ohio, it's a backassward state, and we are freaks. I like being just enough of a freak that I make people think, although I look like everyone else, and I just fit in. It's when people get to know me that they see how I'm different... and the new crunchier me is pretty different than who I was 2 years ago.

Ah dh, Lauren and I went out for lunch with the guys at NASA. We went to a local taco dive, yummy and mostly healthy, and they made my meal w/o cheese for me. Lauren did well, fell asleep in the convertable MT, and is napping now. Hoping she stays there for an hour, it would make a nice day for us - just enough time for another nap at dinner, and to bed with the sunset.

Andy didja fix your smiles yet?

UGH we were smack in the middle of the big blackout 2 summers ago, and dh has been watching the power usage this week at the house. He says it's dangerously low (uh, 100 instead of 120?) and that if we start having brownouts that we have to turn off the a/c. Not to be good citizens and avoid the big blackout again, but to save the motor on our furnace. It burned out the week of the blackout last time. $$$$ to fix.

Lisa

[mamabeca]

Hey Lisa - ha ha on the 1003 1centers!!! The longies are AWESOME!!! Thanks you SO much for sending them our way!!! Still no smilies, but no time now to get to the board. Sharing the computer w/dh and dd is tough on my chatable minutes! Jessi - you go on and MAKE those mistakes! I was impressed it escaped you Means you're paying more attention to what you're SAYING instead of WHAT you're saying, kwim?I know lots of moms who love to work. Finding the part time balance is optimal, usually, but not always possible or ideal, even. We have two sahd's in our babysitting coop.

Fussing big time - can you hear him??? caio!

[3_opihi]

Morning!

Wow, lots of educated discussion today! I don't even know where to start. I really like the notion of c/birth instead of c/section. It IS a birth. That's one word that's always bugged me. I'm really happy to see others using a different word.

Heidi I had the suspicion you had some feelings about your birth, just cuz of all the body stuff you were having, and in my field of work we sometimes, ok always, see emotional stuff manifest in the body while its waiting to be processed in the mind/heart/soul, yk? I dunno, you could complain to the hospital board. It might be a good thing to do since you are such a birth advocate, and I think it would set an awesome example and really make you feel better in the long run. Although, a lot of us didn't have c/births, we did in some way have a birth trauma. We're so here for you!!! We want to hear your birth story!!!

I should say, about the working thing. I've actually worked part time the whole time I've had kids. Up until I was preggo with Violet, that is. Luckily, massage therapy is super flexible. I can kinda schedule people whenever I want. Even when I worked at super fru fru spa, I would have them schedule a gap between every 2 clients and my mom would bring MAk down so I could nurse him. (We only lived about minutes away) So, I'm really lucky in the sense that I DO have a very child friendly job. Only, I getting a little burnt out. I just have to deal with so much heavy STUFF from people, on an energetic, emotional level, and that's hard to do when you're already zapped from well...kids. Work has actually been hounding me to come back, but I've been seriously avoiding them. : That's me hiding.

Lisa - part time crap job. Coffee house! Its FUN.

Nicole - Yeah! GO Diamondbacks! Did I tell you my dh is seriously baseball obsessed? I mean obsessed. He's already got Kobe pitching, catching and hitting. He even went to college on a b-ball scholarship. His favorite team is the Cardinals

JOyce, there was something I was going to tell you, but I can't for the life of me remember what. 36 weeks is a long time for twins to stay in these days!

Jessi - www.cookiepants.com has lots of dad shirts, I think.

Oh, on the allergies - I know one reason the rate has skyrocketed in the past few years, especially with peanuts, is directly caused by GMOs. People's bodies just can't process it.

[3_opihi]

Oh, forgot to add, I can no longer button the wonderoos around V's thighs, so I'm selling them all. If anybody wants any, let me know.

Andy and Karen, here's how you add your senior title:
http://www.mothering.com/mdc/senior_...mechanges.html

[Human_Being]

Joyce, the c-section recovery does really really suck doesn't it? I still feel messed up.

And Lisa, it' so infuriating to see marketing be pushed in that direction. I hate the implications from Docs, oft repeated in the media, that C-sections are a patient driven phenomenon...here we see that the hospital marketing promotes it! They have to take responsibility as educators....and to own that THEY are telling these women there is no difference between c/regular birth, or that a c-section is actually easier. When I was going to get sectioned, I told the doc that I was upset that this was marring my entire reproductive future- that now I would have all these VBAC issues to contend with. And again, not realizing I am a midwife he said "oh, yeah, ALL future births will be c-section and scheduled c-section are so nice! " Yeah!? For who...I replied "Not for someone who has built her whole career on natural birth..." Those would would say women are asking for sections have to own the power they have to inform their decisions, and that they have a bias based on their own self interests. I'm sure its nice to know all the babies will be born on Tuesday, that you'll be paid twice as much for less than half the investment of time, and plus it will reduce the load of women your is on call for to half, and reduce the liability risk because of the predictability of it. Plus, since they induce so many people and half of them end up as sections because they are over managed, it is a reality of their experience that so many women are going to end up there any way, why not skip the hassle and just schedule it? Have you all seen this article? So annoying.

The big thing is OBs literature feigns a neutral position, in reality they are a professional organization that represents the professional intersrts of their members- not advocates of women, or safety, or truth. If women WANT c-sections, I believe it is because they are told it is easier, or because when they express their natural fears about birth, they are not met with compassion and education about the truth about birth- that your body can do it, it is powerful and transformative, and a rite of passage and experience to look forward to instead of fear. ....That is definaetlynot what they get if they confide in an oB about their fears- they get, so you want to skip labor and have a section? OBs are surgeons, and don't be surprised when a surgeon recommends surgery. The do not learn or know normal birth in most cases! Midwives are the experts on NORMAL birth in most countries...

Its a matter of education. If all of a sudden everyone wanted gastric by pass instead of dieting, docs wouldn't just go for it- they would be obliged to say their is a healthier, less risky, lower tech solution to your problem. If I go in and say doc I am fat, what should I do, and he says "Well, we all know dieting is hard, everyone lately is just skipping it and going for gastric by pass, its really so much easier..." Its the same thing- women are told c-sections are simpler, but they are not for women. They are for doctors. And its hard for women to see that there are biases in a docs stance and the information they get is not neutral, health oriented "truth" or research reality. When women come to me and want a homebirth, and then say with surprise- I asked for a home birth last time and the OB did not tell me we have a birth center or that there are midwives who do home births...I remind them its like they went to a Jeep dealer and asked where they could buy a Mercedes...if they did that they would not be surprised that info on the Mercedes was not forth coming, and they would likely just be sold a jeep instead! Market forces still drive birth, but since docs are in a position of authority, they info they give is more responsible for our decisions than in other areas. If my doc says I need to be induced is it because my baby is at risk, or my health is? I presume he is making decision based on my well being, based on actual safety data. But instead, it may be his convenience or his false perceptions of safety based on his lack of experience in normal birth, and conclusion he's drawn from seeing only over managed births.... In Sweden, they have the best outcomes in the world for moms and babies. Midwives do 90% of births, and women are not induced unless there is a true problem (and not routinely for overdue until 43 weeks), they are encouraged that vaginal birth is better and told they can handle the pain. They have a c-section rate under 10%, and an epidural rate of about 15%. My hospital has a 44% c-section rate and a 90%+ epidural rate. The only women who labor naturally are the ones who walk in complete that they can't get to in time!!! And with socialized medicine in Sweden, their is no market advantage or necessity to inducing everyone (like here a doc can induce most women or schedule c-section, and can have a much large practice- if you have 5 births the same day, you can get your money and rosters cleared and get appointments done the rest of the week with out being interrupted by having one birth a day every day...) Anyway....I think its time for me to get to writing about Iris's birth and following up...my anger about our birthing culture is starting to return!

[Azreial]

Working, that a tough issue for me. There are times where I miss my job and there are times where I wish I never had to go back. Its really ahrd for me to even get a routine going right now, because I don't want to get too comfortable in my life as a sahm knowing that its going to come to a screeching halt anywhere from 2-8 months. I'm also the serious breadwinner mak,ing more than double what dh does, and I carry the insurance. So I'm kinda stuck working. I think it almost makes me resentful. If it were just the money, honestly I'll prob just say screw it until Elizabeth was 2. I stayed home with ds until was just about 2 (2wks shy).
But dh's pay isn't going to stay so low. He's training to be a plumber, which would mean he will eventually make enough $$ that I wouldn't have to work. But we still wouldn't have health insurance. THat is a real tough one, the ins. DS's monthy medical stuff (appt & rx ) would be over $450/mth.
I think about all these things. tHen I look at the bad habits ds has picked up from the other kids at school, and I think about all the things I could do with him and miss E to hrelp them grow and learn, and how much I am missing out on their lives. My job is 40 miles away. When I go back to work ft I will be leaving the house at 6:45am and not returing until 6:45pm for a 40hr/wk job. It really hurts my heart to think about going back. But then I think about how I would like to have 1more baby and we could not swing that without ins.
Then, unlike Jessi, I will have no where to pump when I return to work. MA has no bf protection laws and my boss is a real umm female dog, who were not even sure is warm blooded. For example she suspended someone for leaving work because her dc had at temp of 105 and daycare said she needed to pick him up now, and the ped said to take dc to the er Not a very family friednly company, even though they claim to be. So my only option for pumping would be the toilet and then only on my lunch break.
I've been thinking about my friend today, the one who died. We were always talking about how we'd like to get out of there. And I almost feel like this is a sign saying "don't spend your life workign here" So I think that what I'd really like to happen is for me to go back to work, get pg when miss E is 2 and then stay home. Taking as much time off as possible to spend with the kids, while I'm working. Thats my dream, but who knows what will end up happening.

Breastfeeding. I found the article to be more anti-bf than pro-bf. My sister went back to work when dn was 8wks old. He is ff at daycare but she bf him when she comes home from work and all weekend long. DN is almost 1 (2wks) and she's still bf him and has stopped talking about weaning him (I think ahe's been reading the womanly art of breastfeedng I gave her) That right there is a good example of how bf and working without pumping can work. And my sister is not very dedicated to much of anything, I think she bf mostly becuase its cheap and easy. She ff her ds#1, so she knows what a pita and $$ it is.
I really think its a shame how little bf is supported in our culture. I bf ds and I had every intention of exclusivly bf him for at least 6mths. DS got sick when he was just 2mths old and was in the hospital for a week. That was the begning of the end of our bf relationship. The nurses kept pushin formula saying it would help him and the children's hospital wouldn't let me stay with him. Everyone there was very unsupportive. I was a young mother (18) and scared for my poor teeny baby and wanted to do what was best for him and I listened to the nurses and let them ff him. I was bf him less and less and he totally weaned himself between 6-8mths old. I've notcied that things are more pro-bf now than 7 years ago (Andy, Karen correct me if you think I'm wrong) but we still have alot farther to go. Women should not feel like they are doingsomething wrong nip, or ebf (which quite sadly seems to mean older than 6mths in the US). The medical field needs to be trained/taight 500%more about bf, whats normal, whats not, howto help new mums, mums having troubles. This lip service of "breast is best" needs to end.
As a little aside to this, I nip all the time. My sister always goes in another room and brings bottles for her dc when she goes out. So I've been trying to nurse dd tons when I'm with her especialyl when other people are around. Well I think my message that nip is ok is finally getting through. Yesterday in the eye dr's waiting room she nursed dn

Well dh is home and I want to go talk to him for a bit

[LEAW]

UGH Heidi, you put in to words EXACTLY why I fired my OB. Who needs a surgical specialist anyway? OK, Joyce needed a surgical specialist. I should have stayed home, I would have been better off. Next time, at the very least, I'm not telling anyone when my water breaks...

Yah, I saw that star article last week on my crunchy list. Can you believe that they ACTUALLY put a quota IN WRITING about the # of c/s they wanted?!?!

And did you see, the FDA finally FINALLY came out with a warning against cytotec for induction. FINALLY.


Manly nip article, good read: http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/jamies...tml?source=rss

[Azreial]

Oh I havne' read any post after I posted this am. So I'll read them and comment hopefully later

[Human_Being]

Ha! while I was writing that there was an occasion for the midwfe working for me to call and consult wiht me, and she had to say a patient was to be seen by the on-call doc, and it was the same crazy jerk that did my section. She had been on the phone with the head of OB saying we needed a new doc, she was not going to let out patient be treated by that doc becasue he is hostile to our patients. The head of OB did not question what she meant- sort of an acknowledgement that that doc is a jerk- and said he would take care it, that is his job. So already there is shift happening. Better than just sh*t happening! Good setting of the stage for me to approach what I need to do in relation to our birth expereince

[LEAW]

http://www.cafepress.com/mamasmilktees/429704 dad shirts

[LEAW]

Hehehe dh wants to get Lauren the "Bush makes me spit up" bib. That'd go over SO WELL with his family.

[jessitron]

Heidi, that's great about your associate knowing about the jerk doctor now and getting a different one. Someone is benefitting from your experience already. Good job!

[Malama]

gosh mamas. I'm all riled up. reading about c-births and birth politics really makes me and I feel sometimes like I'm
that whole thing about the CHOICE to have an elective c-birth is just fraught with misinformation. why don't they ever include the dangers to the baby? w/a scheduled c the baby is NOT ready for labor, the baby does not get squeezed out and has to be suctioned.... the list goes on. the assault on women's bodies is just horrible. and the backlash for fighting against that is exactly what that article yesterday was doing. ugh.
I agree Heidi that's it's all about education. women generally do not go into birth educated and look at the obs as though they are gods. it sucks for the OB and sucks for the moms even more. I know you know women who feel like their babies lives were SAVED- happens, for sure, but so often that's the crap they are fed. then they never question the ob's decisions/.

Heidi- for all the trauma you've been through so far with Iris' birth, I know your experience will make you a better mw and give you a new level of empathy. I know my long and hard birth with Ra'am gives me a good level of empathy for the moms who have long labors- of course I still sometimes get mad when I think- "why did SHE get to have that long experience but still have a nice hb, when I didn't?"- unfortunately, 12 years later, it is still an issue sometimes. But it was my experience and I can't change it.

Annie- your job sounds ideal in SOME ways- sucky in others. I took a series of clairvoyant classes years ago and probably 99% of the people in the class were body workers looking for ways to NOT absorb all of their client's energies. Was very useful and interesting.

Sheri- so when do you thiknk you'll have to go back to work? do you have to stay at the same place? if your boss is so horrible, maybe there's a better/ closer place??? I know all about the $$$ of being self-employed. We pay out of pocket for health ins (which we rarely use)- our bill is $666/ month (and MORE than our mortgage). It truly sucks!
good for your sister for finding a way to make it work for her. and yay to you for being such a good example. I remember some time ago I said you were hardcore to nurse through thrush or something- see, you ARE! or your just a mom who wants to do what's best for her bambina.


i am totaslly inoring my baby. he's been having some rough times

[Malama]

oh, annie- I like your new siggy.
Jessica- love yours too

And Heidi- Ra'am was ogling over the pic that you link to in your siggie. I showed him gorrilla baby and he loved it. said- ooh, what a chubby baby! he's a softie.