Offensive baby card - Page 5

[mom2tig99Nroo03]

Originally Posted by SMR

what if something bad would happen to you? And your baby won't take a bottle because they never have before? Then what, the kid starves because mom is in the hospital or something?

in the event that something happens to mom AND the baby wont take a bottle, there is finger-feeding, cup feeing, syringe feeding, using an eyedropper, an sns,......

[mom2tig99Nroo03]

Originally Posted by tayndrewsmama

Regular bottles will begin the weaning process, even if they are full of breastmilk. It's easier to get milk out of a bottle and once the baby realizes this, they will eventually prefer the bottle which will lead to less actual breastfeeding which will lessen the milk supply

and this would be a fact too, if instead of where i have used bold italics for her word you use may instead.

[mom2tig99Nroo03]

Originally Posted by suseyblue

just remember that not everyone combines supplemental bottle w/ expressed milk, with nursing, as easily as some folks.

another fact.

[mom2tig99Nroo03]

Originally Posted by Heffernhyphen

Do you really think a bottle a day will keep the breast away?

for some babies, yes it could. if it is a baby like my son, a single bottle did keep the breast away- for almost 6 months. he was given a bottle in the nursery, and my nipples arent 2 inches long like what they used for him, and he wanted nothing to do with mine after that.

also, on a professional level instead of a personal one- probably about 40% of the problems that i was asked to help out with were nipple confusion when i was a bf counselor. and those were thec mamas that actually asked for help instead of just saying "oh well- he doesn't like to nurse - so i'll just keep on giving him the bottle".

[captain optimism]

Originally Posted by KirstenMary

Some do. Please don't make a blanket statement that includes all children when you cannot possibly know what goes on in every mama's life.

Well, I think babies don't need blankets.

:LOL

I really do think we should advocate breastfeeding and support other moms.


I think the OP had no idea when she posted about the dopey card that you were all going to attack each other for using bottles to feed expressed breastmilk, using bottles with babies who had serious muscle tone issues, or for posting stuff about the dangers of nipple confusion because of the early introduction of bottles.

Lots of moms never need to use bottles. Mine never used a bottle with me, she weaned me to a cup (as they said in those dark ages.) I used bottles because I was a WOHM and pumped for my baby's first 13 months. I still wouldn't send a card that said that every baby needs a bottle. Way to make a new breastfeeding mom feel like a freak, ya know?

Let's try to be a little NICE to each other sometimes.

(If you attack me for writing this, I'm going to write another poem, I warn you!)

[mom2tig99Nroo03]

Originally Posted by SMR

Anyway.. I can see that if I EVER need breastfeeding advice that this IS NOT the place to come! Maybe the mainstream boards are more understanding and open minded? hmm that's a new thought!

open-minded? not likely, more willing to give a pat on the back, and a "it doesnt matter what the baby is being fed, as long as he/she is being fed" much more likely.

Originally Posted by SMR

As for bottles making babies not want to nurse.. what about the women who don't produce enough for their babies? Who have to supplement with formula (GASP!)?? My sister in law exclusively breastfed her first.. her second has a much bigger appetite and she nurses and supplements with formula..

well, that would depend on the mother and baby- the age of the child, how often they're nursing etc.

Originally Posted by SMR

The kid still likes the breast!

great! however, i have seen firsthand though that it doesnt always work like that.

[eclipse]

as a former WOHM, who pumped for 18 months for ds and 12 months for dd, i am offended by all the bottle imagery and insistence my the mainstream that baby=bottles. yeah, my kids needed them because i couldn't always be with them. yes, there are some who are medically unable to nurse at the breast or have early breastfeeding difficulties that end up being bottle fed. as a matter of fact, ds and i nearly didn't make it with breastfeeding due to interference (and, yes, bottles) by the NICU nurses. i get that. i think most moms here who have never given their kids a bottle get that. it doesn't mean that we have to accept bottles as the norm.

as for my baby on the way, since i won't be WOTH this time, i doubt we'll introduce a bottle at all. i won't feel like an AP/breastfeeding failure if we do - but i'll also be aware that if we do, it won't be because babies need bottles, but because we're doing something for our convenience.

[gridley13]

I would love to see some more AP type cards... thanks for the links! :

My dd had bottles occasionally, it never interfered at all with our nursing relationship. I guess I got lucky.

With my first (dd) I was adamant about not using a pacifier. Two weeks later, I was trying it when she was waking every 30-45 min every single night and I thought I would SURELY lose my mind. She never took it, ever. Well, not true. When she was about 24 mths she went through a little stage where she wanted one to walk around with just to be like her cousin who always had one in her mouth.

When ds was born, I changed my mind about pacifiers. And he was different. he loved his sucky. When he woke up I sometimes gave him the sucky, but usually the breast. Best of all, it kept him happy in the car. This was wonderful. Around 8 mths he started refusing it. I was seriously sad!! But I went with his needs and wants and freecycled them all once I was sure he didn't want them anymore. Again, this did not interfere at all with our nursing relationship. And, he never wanted a bottle when he was hungry. In his 13 mths of life I have left him less than 10 times. Never for more than a few hours because he refused the bottle. So, he doesn't get them.

My take on all this is:

You need to be very careful introducing a bottle in the early weeks/months so it doesn't interfere with nursing.

If your child does take a bottle or pacifier with ease and without interference, I just don't see the harm! Every mother/baby relationship is different and can't be judged so quickly over the internet. I once knew a mom who didn't use pacifiers or bottles, she only breastfed. And she was able to get away for up to 4 hours at a time to do her own stuff. How? Her kids were on the Ezzo plan. I witnessed her holding and rocking her poor crying hungry baby all the time saying, "Shhhh shhhh, it's ok... only another half hour." In that case, I would prefer that baby get a bottle.

I understand the strong desire to just have a little more freedom. Emphasis on desire. I know that I will get it back one day... not for another year at least. I can wait, and I am waiting. I fully understand that I signed up for this 24/7 job. I am doing it! Well, in my opinion. But I am not going to lie and say I don't dream about a day to myself, or a full night of uninterrupted sleep. A movie in a theater, a dinner out with dh. This year for our anniversary we had to take the kids with us! Oh well, we didn't really care. That's the way it goes.

Okay, rambling

[annettemarie]

In the Ezzo scenario you described, the baby would have to wait every 4 hours for a bottle, too. It's not just about mom getting her time in Ezzo's world, it's about training that sinful baby not to be so selfish, and to learn he doesn't come first.

[midstreammama]

I think this christmas card is hilarious.

http://www.cafepress.com/promom_holi...?zoom=yes#zoom

:LOL :LOL :LOL

[stafl]

Originally Posted by annettemarie

I completely agree with the original purpose of this post. It is frustrating to see bottles on the short list of "what babies need." We actually returned a book from a series we love (The Harper Collins Growing Tree board books) because it said just this.

As to bottles. A lot of it depends on the age and how well the baby is nursing. I think a carte blanche endorsement of bottles in just as wrong as a sweeping condemnation.

sometimes those other methods of supplementation just don't work. And, ask anyone who has tried them, they are really really hard work! Bottles saved my DD's life when she was unable to nurse. I also agree that they potentially cause really big problems for babies who are able to nurse (but I have never given my other daughter a bottle to test that theory, I know how hard it can be to overcome certain problems). But I still don't like seeing them on cards, clothing, blankets, wrapping paper, and on anything and everything "baby"

[gridley13]

Originally Posted by annettemarie

In the Ezzo scenario you described, the baby would have to wait every 4 hours for a bottle, too. It's not just about mom getting her time in Ezzo's world, it's about training that sinful baby not to be so selfish, and to learn he doesn't come first.

Wanted to clarify: what I meant was I would have preferred he get a bottle right away rather than wait for the breast and be hungry... damaging his relationship with food and his mother forever and ever...

Sad thing about that baby, when he was a little older (around 18 mths) he was crazy about food. I recall the mom commenting, "He just scarfs it down and doesn't stop! It's like he thinks we are not going to feed him." I couldn't hold my tongue and said, "It may have something to do with the scheduled feedings."

[annettemarie]

That is just so awful and sad. I don't understand how anyone with a childrearing method so that is in such disconnect with what everyone knows is true about infant development can be taken seriously by anyone.

[gridley13]

Originally Posted by midstreammama

I think this christmas card is hilarious.

http://www.cafepress.com/promom_holi...?zoom=yes#zoom

That is a great card! Now, do you think Santa is circ'd?

[tayndrewsmama]

Originally Posted by KirstenMary

Are you always this rude?

Seriously. It's not a big deal that you were inadvertently ambiguous in a post. It happens to all of us at one time or another. This is a message board and misunderstandings happen more frequently than not.

Just share the love!!

Ummmm....if it's not a big deal, then why do you keep harping on it?

[tayndrewsmama]

Originally Posted by mom2tig99Nroo03

and this would be a fact too, if instead of where i have used bold italics for her word you use may instead.

You are totally right, my bad, again.



As for cards by Hallmark, they are the same ones that are printing the vaccination cards for some states. I am NOT at all trying to defend them, but, I wonder if they just don't think there's a market for things like breastfeeding cards. They are a privately owned company, so who's to say they are not also a bottle feeding only family that owns it and therfore haven't ever thought beyond the end of their own noses about how to feed a baby? I am sure that there are tons of people/companies that submit ideas for cards and perhaps the "reviewer(s)" of these are biased against breastfeeding and don't have the information that we have about it. Therfore, they may be thinking, like so many, many others, that breastfeeding is not necessary because we have bottles. Think about all that was said on The View. It's amazing what people think now.

What do those scenarios gain? Probably nothing, unless we try to find out why they don't have any, which would probably be impossible. But, ya never know.

[annettemarie]

Originally Posted by tayndrewsmama

Ummmm....if it's not a big deal, then why do you keep harping on it?

Would you please take it to pm? This thread keeps coming up as having new posts to it, and I keep clicking thinking that it may be something adding a thought to the thread, and instead I am getting this.

[~Megan~]

There are some good things in this thread but the attacks have gone too far. I am closing it.