Israel - Page 66

[Kmelion]

My son, Nati is now 14 months old and he's still nursing. It's generally just before naps and bedtime. Otherwise he has a Nuby straw cup with water most of the time and juice on ocassion.

I've nursed in Malcha - in their nursing room, in the food court and on the benches throughout the mall , in the central bus station in Jerusalem NO privacy there so I often find myself on the dingy fourth floor and I've even nursed in the Ben Yehudah Midrachov in the center of town.

I had planned on weaning him around now because I wanted to resume fertility treatments but we're not going to do that now.

[jul511riv]

Originally Posted by yaya

Do you guys struggle with this? I mean, not about nursing, per se, but trying to figure out where to adopt a "when in Rome" kind of attitude about living in Israel, and trying to adapt ourselves to the country we've chosen, and when to push up against the accepted norms and stick to my American-cultural guns, even if that flies in the face of the majority's way of doing things? I mean, I have an immigrant mentality, I know, I want to raise my kids as "Israelis" -- but sometimes there are other values that supersede that... Dunno, just thinking about this a lot lately, regarding the kids' educations and whatnot.

OMG!!! I could have written your post myself. This is the conversation I have been having ad nauseum with all my friends. It's like "well 'when in Rome' or are there just some values and things that are so important that they supercede everything." Pretty much verbatum what you said.

I think, and this is just a hunch, that this is kind of the line for everyone and you just have to pick and choose your battles. I'm a very principled person, so I just kind of, thus far, have made EVERYTHING my battles. Because I feel they are all worthwhile causes. But here in Israel, it really is EVERYTHING that is a cause and I'm just "hafouch...or as merpk would say hafoukh" from everyone else...so now what, ykwim?!"

I had a friend over last night who I hadn't seen in YEARS. Like 6 years. It was a trip. And she's Israeli but lived in the Bay for quite a while and so we were talking about boundaries. And how Israelis just don't have them. It is important, I think, to set boundaries, and to do that sometimes means not letting people into your life or speaking as freely as one would like to, to everybody about everything. I have another friend here and we had this conversation about empathy. How Israelis don't have any. I mean, obviously I"m generalizing the culture, which is easy for me being an "outsider" and all, but from what I can tell, it's just a part of the culture in the USA, like ingraned from birth in all things (driving, childrearing, etc...) and here it's just not. So some of these things are just cultural things that you can either beat it or join it or just walk on eggshells around it. For me, I'd personally rather be an empathetic person, to really have that empathy, but I need to temper it as a matter of survival and self-protection. So it's all a balance and at the end of the day it is YOU who has to look in the mirror (be that the thing hanging on the wall, or those little kids running around and possibly also hanging on the wall...) and decide if you like what you see. And there are value judgements we have, some come from our culture and our parents, and our societies and ourselves but at some point you have to make a choice and pick and choose what it is that YOU want to be and adhere by and go from there.

So it's not simple and it's not the same answer for everything or everyone.

And as an aside but also related. I don't have this "my kids need to be Israeli" mentality. My kids ARE Israeli by virtue of them being Jews. It is their homeland and the only country in the world where they can be safe, and by safe I mean have a military that will support and go to bat for them when their lives are in danger just for being a Jew. It's the ONLY place in the world we've got. They don't need to "be" anything or fit in to any mold. They don't have to do this here or in the USA. They can just BE WHO THEY ARE and that is okay and how HaShem made them and all of that.

Now, my children could decide to never participate in Israeli society and culture. We could be living in the USA and they could decide to do the same there. We all have that choice. I do my best to take an active role in the aspects of culture that I can respect and at the end of the day I can say that I had a good day and did good things while also respecting my need to take it slow, as an immigrant, and as a person with boundaries. I feel the same about my kids. It's okay if they feel more American or don't feel they fit in anywhere. They come from two parents who feel similar so I wouldn't be shocked if they felt the same way. I was a born and bred American but because my family was "different" I felt different too. So they HAVE a place in society, whether it makes them comfortable or not. That's all I can do as a parent for them and for myself. We have a place that is "ours" but if we have certain practices or viewpoints that are "different" that is okay too. Even if it makes us all feel a little bit off.

I'm prone to tangents, so I'll just leave it at that and hope it made some sense.

[jul511riv]

Originally Posted by Sarahfina

How are you?!

Man, Ihear that I hear that. A change will do you good, as that Sheryl Crow song goes. I'm glad things are peaceful and good there. Its NOT easy living in Israel for ANYONE, which is my ultimate point exactly from the previous post. It's a holy place with holy challenges.

What about goat farming? If you guys come back and get into that I think we could drum you up a market for goat milk products. I'm on some listservs that have peoplewilling to pay any price... Dunno if Katzrin is the place for that but I wouldn't mind seeing you more often, espically since we are now up north, and B"H will stay here. It's such a wonderful part of the country and in he Winter Time I don't think there is any other place I'd rather be on the face of the earth. Of course, in the summer...I'm thinking Alaska.

How's your little girl? I wish you could have met Magikfaerie or however she spells it. You two would have gotten along swimmingly. I think I mentioned this to her, but she was already on the way out. Are you doing any doulaing? What about lay midwifery, I can't remember if you were getting into that at all?

Kamelion, that's awesome that you are still nursing! Way to go. ds is over a year and a half and I'm just starting to really push solids (sitting him at the table with his own bowl...usually he just throws it across the room, but we are making a little bit of progress...) I couldn't imagine weaning him... I weaned dd when she was 16 months and don't know how I did it. It was totally out of necessity (mine) so there was no choice (for me at that time) but in retrospect, if things had been different, I would have kept going. I think it's so amazing that you ladies have toddlers that just nurse here and there and mostly are eating. Neither one of my kids was like that. It took a forced weaning of dd for her to eat solids at all and I've written about ds. *sigh* it's a lot of work. I nurse these toddlers as if they were newborns. But one of these days I'm sure I'll be able to relate. somehow. Anyways, I'm always trying to give knowing smiles and glances at other nursing moms. I seem to find a lot of moms embarassed that I'm looking their way while they are nursing. Even if I am nursing my own ds. I've been nursing on park benches or at museums along side womyn with blankets over them and their babies and a protective someone hovering around them and when I try to start a conversation or nurse my son next to them they just kind of pull in and pull the blanket up and look really embarassed. I'm glad that they are nursing, but sad that they are embarassed about it or to connect with another mom about it or feel secure enough in what they are doing to not cover. I don't and WON'T cover, even when I've been asked to. It's too important for me to be "over the top" and "in your face" about breastfeeding so that the other moms can feel like they can go out in a blanket with a buddy and nurse in the corner. If even one mother and baby (and husband) feels better about what they are doing because I was out there just nursing away and feeling good and secure about it, well then it was worth it.

I have occasionaly had a mom smile back and look happy and confident in response, but usually not.

[merpk]

Originally Posted by 3daughters

I may hang my laundry in the back .

We're here and are settling in. We picked a great community and our first few days have been wonderful.

Riv and I live across the street from eachother .

Amy, why don't you join us?

Sigh. If you could get DH a job in your 'hood, then maybe we could.

Between his age (k'e'h 56 in a few weeks) and his tzitzis hangin', not to mention his still-nonexistent Ivrit, when he walks into [scienceinstitution/high-techwhatever] for his interview, well, they just kind of stare at him blankly. But he's plugging away. Spamming his resume all over the country. Something's going to show up. It has to.

I mean, I guess he could drive a cab, but he has trouble with street signs (not all of them have English). He could wait tables. No street signs there. Not sure if his PhD will help him get those jobs, but hey, it's better than homelessness.







And yeah, everyone loves to tell us he could teach English. I guess he could. English teachers make about what he does already, so what the heck.





It's hard to imagine that he can't get a job in his field or at least something close to it. His resume is solid, and in spots downright impressive. I guess that's what gets him the interviews in the first place. But all that grey hair ... and not to mention the long beard and the kipa ...




Okay. Done ranting. We could have it much worse. We know that. Many folks do. But that doesn't make this any easier. Or any less frustrating.




Point being, at this point, whatever chance we have for a job is down here. Or maybe more in the desert. Or so he thinks.

[gilamama]

amy

[3daughters]

Has he though about retraining? I've met quite a few folks that made technical writing their second careers and done very well.

If my dh doesn't find a job by the time our benefits run out (in about 6 months) then he'll be doing guard duty or working a check out counter to bring in some dough. That, or he'll become a SAHD and I'll go out to work.

[merpk]

Yeah, technical writing. He actually took a pre-test for a technical writing school, but then the tuition was an issue. Maybe he should reconsider that. Thanks for the reminder.

Of course, then we'll get to read in the papers about the "brain drain" in Israeli academia and research and he can spend another few nights crying in his vodka about the irony (which he did last week when the Jerusalem Post had an article about it).



Sigh.

[jul511riv]

sounds rough. Maybe the investment should be in an ulpan specific to his profession. In fact, he could probably find that if she showed up at a university and attended some of the classes he once taught or would teach again that he could probably pick up all the Hebrew he needs for teaching in about 6 months to a year. Of course, that means going every few days a week or whatever. Catching the night classes. Just sitting in the back of the class and listening and letting it sink in. I only mention this because I learned a LOT of Hebrew from just a few days of sitting in on some of my husband's classes. I also thought it was really cute that in one of his classes, about current events in journalism or something, the teacher was an Anglo and he would just rattle off in really broken Hebrew and every 5th or 6th word was in English. If he didn't know it, he just said it in English and assumed everyone would follow. Now he had enough hebrew that his students understood alot of what he was saying,but he spoke enough in English that I could follow him and it was just totally fine.

Also, my ulpan teacher told us, when asked if she, herself had ever attended ulpan, "naw, I never went to ulpan, why would I need to do that? I just went right into University and in about a year, my Hebrew was fine. It wasn't so bad. The first year just involved sitting there and being totally lost and confused, but in retrospect, it was just a year."

Anyways, goodluck. And check out the Carmeal/Haifa schools/high tech scene. U of Haifa is a good start, if not a bit of a drive.

[gilamama]

Originally Posted by jul511riv

Maybe the investment should be in an ulpan specific to his profession.

anyone correct me if i'm wrong on any of this but...

i beleive those ulpans are only for after someone has a pretty fluent general hebrew, like after level daled or hey.

and i dont think amy's dh wants to go to ulpan.




tech writing makes a really good salary though. maybe even better than a professor.

[BelovedBird]

Hi all. Does anyone know anyone coming from NY who might take a suitcase for us?
We hope to be returning in late August.

[merpk]

Originally Posted by gilamama

anyone correct me if i'm wrong on any of this but...

i beleive those ulpans are only for after someone has a pretty fluent general hebrew, like after level daled or hey.

and i dont think amy's dh wants to go to ulpan.




tech writing makes a really good salary though. maybe even better than a professor.

It's not that he doesn't want to go to ulpan. He does. He tried, too ... his boss let him take up to two hours a morning for a while to go. The problem was that the Rekhovot ulpan was four hours per morning, which meant he missed half the class every day, and just never caught up. And all his work is in English, it's the culture at his institution, so ... he rarely has any interaction in Hebrew at all, beyond the gas station and shul.





I do think he should go back to trying tech writing. Or there's also this patent attorney thing, where you can consult on patents, which he dismissed at first. For that you need solid English ... but you need pretty high-level Hebrew, but ... ohnevermind.



You know how some people have a facility for languages? Well, DH does *not*. When he was young he learned some German, enough to be able to wade through some scientific documents in it, but never enough to speak/understand spoken German. I get that ... my Hebrew is pretty basic, but I can read and understand what I'm reading reasonably well. Or even watch something and if it's got Hebrew subtitles, I can follow it. But forming my own sentences, or understanding what people are saying? Whole 'nother kettle o'fish.





We read something when we first got here about age and language acquisition, and it said that after 40yo, only 30 percent of olim ever acquire the language. I took that as a challenge, but then again, I had very basic Hebrew already, since I was a little kid. DH took that as a death sentence, IYKWIM ... and his only Hebrew was the ability to read (without comprehension).




I'll leave out my speculation on his borderline-Aspie tendencies and how they fit into this, but ... המיבין יבין, as they say.





That's one thing for sure ... if he doesn't find another job by the time this one ends in January, he *will* be taking an ulpan.





Thanks for letting me vent, y'all.







BB, wishing I knew someone coming back to help you out. Looking forward to you getting here. How's the home search going?

[yaya]

Kmelion -- I don't know if this is relevant to you, but I resumed fertility treatments when DS was 15 mos, still nursing. No issues whatsoever. One of the doctors sort of frowned at me, but it never affected my supply or anything. Getting pregnant affected my supply though, and I weaned DS shortly thereafter. One thing about Israelis, they are very gung-ho about makin' babies.

jul11riv, I don't cover up while nursing either, and it annoys me that I'm expected to do so here. It's just not comfortable for me, I like to be able to see my children's faces while they're nursing, make eye contact, communicate visually... Especially when they're very young, it's really necessary for me to see them eat in order to make it as mutually comfortable as possible.

It's just one more thing, one more roadblock that makes nursing difficult for women, one more reason to ditch it earlier on rather than later, yk? I totally had this argument with my SIL, with me saying that BFing is totally unsupported here, and her going, what are you talking about, all you ever hear here is "breast is best." And me saying, yes, it's the worst of both worlds, because women know intellectually that there is good reason to BF but in practice, on the ground, it's not supported at all, from anti-rooming-in OBs and hospitals to this assumption that you HAVE to cover up in order to nurse, which works for some, but for others is just too hard...

FWIW, I feel a little less emphatic about this than I did once, in the sense that I don't want to make people unnecessarily uncomfortable, and will avoid it if reasonably possible. But for me, actually covering my child's head with a blanket falls outside of "reasonable," yk? I need to be able to see my kid in order to nurse properly.

merpk, what field is your DH in? Patent law is in such high demand, and pays much better than tech writing, I believe, in most cases. Why was DH not interested at first?

Question: Anyone know where to get plain, decent quality, solid-color t-shirts for babies / toddlers / kids? Like, the kind of stuff you'd get at American Apparel, but maybe not as quality / spendy...?

[Kmelion]

Originally Posted by yaya

Kmelion -- I don't know if this is relevant to you, but I resumed fertility treatments when DS was 15 mos, still nursing. No issues whatsoever. One of the doctors sort of frowned at me, but it never affected my supply or anything. Getting pregnant affected my supply though, and I weaned DS shortly thereafter. One thing about Israelis, they are very gung-ho about makin' babies.


Question: Anyone know where to get plain, decent quality, solid-color t-shirts for babies / toddlers / kids? Like, the kind of stuff you'd get at American Apparel, but maybe not as quality / spendy...?

Thanks for the info... as it turns out it isn't relevant after all... but don't ask me why for another 6 weeks

And we get a lot of our plain decent quality solid color tshirts for all of us sent by my MIL who has an embroidery/silk-screening business in CT.

[yaya]

Kmelion,

[merpk]

Originally Posted by yaya

merpk, what field is your DH in? Patent law is in such high demand, and pays much better than tech writing, I believe, in most cases. Why was DH not interested at first?

He's a chemist. A pretty good one, too. And he loves being in the lab. He's kind of an obsessive kind of guy. (Goes with the borderline-aspie thing.) So not only is he working in the lab, he's living it. Not that he's there from early to late, but that when he's not there, he's still obsessing about whatever problem he's trying to solve/experiment he's trying to correct, etc.

It's the kind of guy he is.

And honestly, he's done some really solid things there. Which is why he's just so depressed that they can't find money to keep him. Despite his experience/resume, and despite the pay he was getting (the cleaning staff makes more than him) he was so satisfied with what he was accomplishing ... anyway, hard to explain beyond that. He was hoping to be able to contribute something.

In the lab, he's contributing. As a "patent attorney," he's doing a job that just makes money.

I know, I know, a job is a job. I'm reminding him of that.

But he did tell me today that the one patent attorney situation he looked into before we got here, he was told he would need solid Hebrew skills, too. I forgot about that.

[merpk]

Okay, so we think we have an apartment. Up the street from where we are, actually. It's complicated (it has tenants in it who don't want to leave ... apparently they haven't had their rent raised the entire 10yrs they've been in it and the landlords want to raise the rent, so that's why they're going ... so they're mad as all get-out, and they're kind of trashing the place, it seems. I so hope they don't. But anyway ...) and it's more than we can pay, but since we're living on our savings ... which is below the red-line of being able to ever use as a downpayment on anything, so what the hell, why not.

Sigh.

It's for two years and then the owners are coming back. Well, two years is better than one. Or none.

[3daughters]

nak

i have done a lot of nip-ing in the almost 2 weeks we've been here...misrad haklita, the bakd, the mall, a store...and i've had nothing but positive reactions. on more than one occasion i've been offered a comfortable seat in private space (for my benefit) *and* a glass of water. That has never happened to me in America.

some good things about israel that i've (re)discovered-
cucumbers and tomatoes that taste like real
no high fructose corn syrup
family friendly
the Jewish mama sttitude
the beach

[jul511riv]

Originally Posted by 3daughters

no high fructose corn syrup

simply not so mama. I got a bottle on my shelf...that I bought in Haifa.

:

[3daughters]

Originally Posted by jul511riv

simply not so mama. I got a bottle on my shelf...that I bought in Haifa.

:

oh...I meant in soft drinks and many foods and snacks

[sunshinestarr]

Ok, I just searched the archives for an ob-gyn recommendation. I don't wanna go back to mine again! I think I've heard that it's a pain switching doctors but I'll deal with that.

Is Dr. Carlos Rosenberg still highly recommended? Anyone else have any good holistic/alternative minded recommendations in the mercaz? Thanks!