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Israel - Page 9

post #161 of 1777
I'm fairly new to MDC and just found this link. Cool! I'm living in Modi'in... have been in Israel since 97. I've got two boys (3 yo and 11 mos).

Wow. All my kids were born at Sharei Tzedek and I had a pretty ok experience both times.

Ditto that, but I delivered both times at Hadassah Ein Kerem. I had really great births, actually. With my first, I had pit at 6 cm, which I think I'd probably have declined if I'd had more of my wits about me. No cutting. Amazing m/w (American -- Barbara. Anyone else have her?) and I did have a doula with me (Joanie). My second birth, I happened to get the same m/w (!!!) and it was just me and my H. It was an absolutely perfect birth and the staff was amazing. I saw a lot of m/w's and doctors during my short time in the labor suite, since my b/p was sky-high, but they were good about listening to me, waiting as long as possible to intervene -- which fortunately they didn't need to, since he came quite quickly.

My only complaint was having to sleep in the hall the first night... but that's a known problem with Ein Kerem. Well, that and not having a private room, but I guess that's just hospitals in Israel.
post #162 of 1777
Originally Posted by jul511riv
can I just tell everyone AGAIN how much my Dr. rocks? For those of you that read Hebrew, here is his website:


I can't read a word of it, but I think it just proves that he rocks. How's that for blind faith.

This is the guy who said he could "sense the baby" and didn't need to check heartbeat or feel the baby move.
Thanks for this website, what a great URL! I can read it but it will take me hours. Maybe I'll take a shortcut and get dh to read it out loud to me . I'm really curious to see what his philosophies are but it does make me kind of nervous that he doesn't feel the need to check FHT at a prenatal visit. I'm sure this info is in the website but does he take Kupat Cholim?
post #163 of 1777
Maccabi. And don't go and complain about this guy cause if you take him away from me before I give birth, I will be ALL UP in your business.

Now, let me clairify. He believes that YOU are in charge of YOUR birth. He's got an ultrasound machine in his office, and if you want one, you can use it every single visit. But if you don't want it, you don't use it. It's that simple.

Before you can hear the fetal heartbeat in another way, the only way he has of "hearing" is the US machine. He doesn't have any other equiptment to hear it and feels that an US is safer than a doppler, which is essentially the same thing from what I know. So that makes sense to me.

In other words, he doesn't feel that it is necessary to detect the fetal heartbeat via ultrasound machine every single visit.

And, personally, if I feel the baby moving and feel that all is well, why should I HAVE to check the heartbeat. Shouldn't that also be my choice. I mean, if I'm five months along and feel the baby moving regularly, why check the heartbeat? If there is a too slow beat, then what? induce? And if I feel the baby moving then there MUST be a heartbeat, right? Unless you are asking me to doubt this very simple thing that even mainstream doctors DEPEND on women to be able to detect (read the mainstream literature "if you don't feel the baby move 10 times in a hour..." and so forth)...

What I'm saying is that if I go to a doc, and say, "oh my baby's been moving around like crazy throughout this whole appointment but now he's still cause your foreign hands are on my belly" should this give him cause for concern or should this momentary non-movement warrent a pulse check?

And if the heart beat is to slow, would'nt it be most prudent for a five months in utero baby to check the heartbeat again later. On another day. That is what I would choose. I wouldn't agree to induction that very minute.

What if the heartbeat was too fast? Same thing.

I mean I just don't see what the big deal is. Millions of women gave birth to generations of babies without checking the heartbeat on one faithful day each and every month. They felt the baby move and trusted the body to deal with whatever was going on.

Now, maybe I read into your comment. maybe you are just saying that YOU personally would not be comfortable not hearing the heartbeat. That you PERSONALLY feel that this is what is best for YOU. That's fine. And I'm 100% certain that he would accomidate your every wish, as his philosophy is that this is YOUR pregnancy, and as he told me before "you are the boss of your pregnancy". In that case, sorry for the harsh response. ANd please accept my apology in honor of Elul.

I just felt a bit under attack by your statement, as if you were critizing my doctor who I really trust alot to help me birth in what I feel is still a very foreign and very scary country.

Also, his credentials speak for themselves, but I absolutely trust this man, at this point, 100% with my life and my babies. Which I feel very protective of and also very reliant on.

So hopefully this explains my responce a bit truer to form. I'm not trying to be mean, only defend a woman's right to chose her own healthcare/doctor.
post #164 of 1777
Whoa, no attack intended at all! I thought it was clear from my post that I was impressed with this guy and wanted to learn more about him. I have no intention of reporting a doctor, certainly not one whose website opens with the statement that pregnancies should be enjoyed. His URL is HARECHEM which translates to THE UTERUS which I think is awesome.

FHT certainly do not need to be checked by an ultrasound or doppler every visit if the mom detects frequent activity and the mom is comfortable with that. I, personally, need to hear the heartbeat at my 12 and 16 week apts so that I know the pregnancy is still viable after that I know everythings OK cuz I can feel it. Its more the 'sensing' comment that made me nervous, as though maybe he'd use that line in labor when it is important to check FHT.

I'm sorry you feel so alienated in Israel and I'm glad that at least you've found an OB you can trust. I sure wish I had had one when I had my first two girls.
post #165 of 1777
You know... you're all scaring me to death. I'm only half laughing, and half crying! I'm currently on a "break" from kids, after having way too many miscarriages. I've been dreading dealing with the Israel medical system when I start to try again here, and sheesh... ahh!! I will breath... in... out... in... out...

Hey, is anyone going (or want to meet?!) to the homeschooling get together at the Jerusalem zoo this week, on Tuesday?? It'll be our first time going (the group has zoo days twice a month), and I'm hoping to meet some other homeschoolers, but meeting anyone will do! We were planing on going at around 1:30, 2 PM ish... I hope. (Not written in stone yet, but, IY"H, it'll happen...)

Would be cool to meet someone from the mothering boards!

Take care,

post #166 of 1777
Hey, I dont know anything about a homeschooling group, or about them meeting at the zoo twice a month... any more info available? a link perhaps?
How "english-speaking-firendly" are they,and how open to unschoolers and to pre-schoolers are they? are my main first questions.
post #167 of 1777
From what I know, they are mostly English speaking, and many are unschoolers. Can't see why preschoolers would not be ok!

post #168 of 1777

goin to the zoo zoo zoo

Hey all,

The zoo is great! 99% unschoolers (or some degree thereof), lots of preschoolers. Lots of slings and cloth diapers and boobs (and we are past those three things so it was : for me sometimes). Lots of food - bring something to share. Mostly English speakers, mostly dati. Not too many 12 year old girls (one of our big problems)

We are no longer homeschooling (family dynamics- going back to school after 3 years at home), but we still might stop by to say hi to friends. Or maybe not, it might be too difficult for me emotionally to explain everything.

Anyway, myds10 seems to have chicken pox. So maybe Tuesday is too soon. Got it from dd5 who was not vaxed, but ds was. She had a very mild case anyway.

3 years at home to get sick, they both wait until school starts to miss a week! So much for "back to work" right now.

Feel free to pm me if you want more info about hs stuff in J-lem.

post #169 of 1777
majikfaerie, well said!
post #170 of 1777
thanks sunshinestarr, but It seems the mods have deleted the messages (I thought that might happen) but they also seem to have disabled something in my account. (hopefully this will pass) but I dont seem to be able to access my own subscribed threads or my profile... I thought the mods would send a IM or something to notify of such action :
post #171 of 1777
Are you coming to the zoo? are ya, are ya, are ya??
post #172 of 1777
Originally Posted by majikfaerie View Post
thanks sunshinestarr, but It seems the mods have deleted the messages (I thought that might happen) but they also seem to have disabled something in my account. (hopefully this will pass) but I dont seem to be able to access my own subscribed threads or my profile... I thought the mods would send a IM or something to notify of such action :
Weird! Hopefully it's just a glitch. If you pm a mod I'm sure they'll tell you..
post #173 of 1777
Hey, all. What's up?

Okay, enough small talk. Time for New Olah's Vent.

So we're changing DS#1's school. Moving him to a Noam school (MMDTorani) from the plain old MMD he was in) and I got permission from the Noam principal, in writing, and brought it to the local iriya. Hey, easy as pie, right?


Got yelled at at the iriya by the supervisor of the lady I was supposed to bring the letter to, something to the effect of "do you know how much work you're causing? Why didn't you just register him in the right school?"

So little miss wimpy American olah, in my totally horrible Hebrew, yelled back. Even got a few folks wandering past to stop and stare. Have to admit, they were very patient and let me flail for words and vent. And when I was done venting, they insisted I go to the original school and get written permission from the principal to leave. Okay. so I did that. went to the school with my DD#1, who was playing hookey that day from that very school and DD#2, who is only a toddler, after all, and talked to the principal for one freakin' long time to get the permission, after which he said, you don't need written permission. I said, yes, I do, and if I go back without it they'll just send me back for it. So he called and confirmed that they wanted written permission. And gave it to me, sealed envelope and all.

So we head out back to the car to return to the iriya ... and the car is dead. Kaput. Not starting. A nonmoving vehicle. Sigh. So call DH, who is at that moment in a car with DS#1 and the agent for our shipper returning from the port in Ashdod. So we wait by the lifeless car till they arrive, and the shipper gives us a lift to the iriya to complete the school stuff, and DH to the mechanic. Then we take a taxi from the iriya to DS#2's gan. Walk home.

And then ... no, the movers did not appear with our lift. They're coming today.

And the Noam school wants me to come over there with the papers from the iriya and money. But the lift is coming, we have no car, and I kept the kids all home today anyway because I had no clue how to get them all to their three different schools in three different parts of town and then to pick them all up again at almost the same time without a car and while the movers were at the house.

No, we don't know enough folks to bring them. But anyway, that's only part of the shnitzel. DS#1 will be having his first day in a new school, and DD#1 is horrified that he won't be in the same school as her anymore (there's no room in the girls' division at Noam) so is refusing to go. Not knowing how to deal with it all, I just ... abdicated. "Okay, everyone gets the day off."

Will think about it tomorrow.

post #174 of 1777

Can someone please clue me in as to how you use the quote and multi-quote reply functions on this board?

post #175 of 1777
Originally Posted by twinkltoes View Post

Can someone please clue me in as to how you use the quote and multi-quote reply functions on this board?

to use the "quote" function, you just click on "quote" at the bottom of any post you want to quote from. it will give you a reply window with the message already quoted in it, contained by some thing that looks like [QUOTE= ..... ] with the message inside and then [/QUOTE ]
you can edit the text inside the "quote marks", but for the sake of honesty, dont change the quote, you can delete irrelevant parts tho.
you can also cut and paste things you want to quote and manually type in the code starting with square brackets, write "QUOTE" end with square brackets. use another such code with forward slash / to end.

or there is a button that looks like a speech bubble on top of the advanced reply page that does this for you.
your best bet is to go to testing one, two, three on the main page of the forum and practice!

About the multi-quote thing, its brand new and I have not tried it out yet.
perhaps should take my own advice and practice with it on the testing page
post #176 of 1777
Originally Posted by merpk View Post
And then ... no, the movers did not appear with our lift. They're coming today.

Note to self: Remember to say "bli ayin ha'rah" more often.

post #177 of 1777

Oh yeah. Lesson number one. Something that would take five minutes in the good ole US of A takes about 5 months in Israel. I wouldn't even be surprized if your lift wasn't in the country yet. I know that sounds awful and is making your heart sink, but those are the kind of things that I would expect and then if things WERE in order (which they were about 70% of the time) I wouldn't be too disappointed.

Man, you are bringing me back to that place of being FOB (Fresh off the Boat, so to speak) and in Israel. Was it only 9 months ago? I guess I'm more laid back about this now. I anticipate problems. Of course this makes me more uptight, if that makes any sence, which makes me prone to yelling and arguing.

I used to feel defeated at government agencies, grocery stores, etc... Now I just yell and act all pissed off like the rest of the Israelis and have a much higher success rate.

Case in point.

Me and dd were crossing a one way street which is like an ally way and with a large curve in it. I was second trimester of pregnancy (I'm in my third, B"H, right now), so I was obviously pregnant, and I was pushing the stroller with DD. Some car came skidding off of the "main street" which is another one way street off of Hertzl. In other words, he should have been driving slowly. But he's Israeli, and he's in a car, so he can and will do whatever is most dangerous and will have him moving the fastest. I guess the attitude is that even if you crash, you want to be thrown as FAR AHEAD of the car onto the road as possible, so that you will be FURTHER in your destination. Oh and dying is not even discussed, much less considered on the Israeli road. (Think I'm being crazy? Wait till you start driving around out here. I have a PERFECT driving record and drove in small towns and big cities in the USA, and I FAILED my drivers test the first time, and literally have panic attacks on he road).

But I digress.

So here we were on this small ally way, where lots of familys live and lots of people walk their dogs or their kids in strollers, and this guy comes literally SKIDDING around the curve in the road (over speed bumps and all) and we are crossing the street. Now he could have seen us from the beginning of his turn, as we were about 6 or7 meters away from him at the other end of the street. That's pretty far. Espically since you are supposed to be taking that turn slowly and driving slowly on roads with speed bumps.

The guy keeps driving full force and then slams on his breaks and starts honking his horn at us as we are crossing the street.

Now he almost hit us. he couldn't even stop the car in time, we managed to jump out of his way. You'd think he would be apologizing, saying "you all right?" or just driving on with a wave to check that I'm okay.

No. This is Israel. And this is an Israeli driver.

His solution (once he was able to stop the car a few meters in front of us) was to stop the car and roll down his window and start yelling at ME for crossing the road!

In my best Hebrew (which sucks) I started telling him that he couldn't drive, that he was totally gutless, that this was totally his fault, and that he should be thanking HaShem that we are okay and so on and so on.

The guy was so stunned, he rolled up his window as I was mid-tangent, and drove away.

DH, who is Israeli, says that means I won!

Anyways, enjoy the beautiful culture that we call home.

And enjoy the culture shock. Sadly there is no one who can get you out of that but you. I've been struggling with this for a while, and only time and talking has helped at all.

Hang in there Amy. THat banging your head against a wall icon will be your favorite until you get on the soapbox one. That's pretty much how it goes.

Now go ahead fellow American Israelis....flame me!
post #178 of 1777
Amy, yikes!! !! One thing I have learned being here: Israelis actually like it when you yell at them. We were at misrad hapnim getting DSs documents and DH starts yelling and banging his fist on desks (someone actually called security! ) but after this, they were oh, so nice to us and helped us tremendously. Go figure.. So it's good that you yelled! (Weird, huh?)

- I hope everything works out nicely with the school and that you get your lift soon!!

JulRiv - How could you say such things!?!?

I can't even flame with a straight face at that one...
post #179 of 1777
Just wanted to say YEAH THAT... My dh has been trying to teach me that Israelis LIKE when you yell, they WANT you to yell. I don't quite get that, but it does seem to work that way.

I'm here only one year, and I'm only now *just* getting used to the attitude. I remember my first few months, though, and I was going crazy.

It will get better!
post #180 of 1777
See, Amy, and it wasn't even me who said it.
(well said Jul)
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