the suicide thread in TAO

[delicious]

what happened!

is she ok? i can't remember what the OP's name was and i wonder why on earth mothering can't host that sort of thread?

[Cynthia Mosher]

We can't host it due to legal concerns. Suicide threads will be removed as soon as they are found and the poster given the advice to seek help from the appropriate authorities and community service resources.

[Ruthla]

So if somebody posted "I'm having a rough time right now" it would be ok, as long as he/she didn't specifically mention suicidal thoughts?

[delicious]

that stinks. i pm'd the mama but never heard back.

i wonder what legal concerns?

[Paddington]

not an expert but it seems to me it would be a huge liability, opening mothering up to getting sued. if they "gave advice" and then it was discovered that the poster went through with it... as far as i know, mothering moderators aren't certified counselors..... hope the mama is okay. i didn't see the thread but sending out love anyway.

[delicious]

thanks for clearing that up for me, ACP!

[Calidris]

It almost seems to me that there would be more liability involved in yanking away her only support in a moment of deep need

[Paddington]

not necessarily as they referred her to people trained to help her. but i guess you could look at it that way. and then it would be classified as d**ned if you do, d**ned if you don't.....

so, change it up and say that it is the instance that someone's appendix burst and you were there but there is a pay phone a few steps away and an ambulance can be by quickly with people trained to help that person. do you try to plunge ahead and operate or do you call in reinforcements who can better help?

ya'll may not see the connection, but i think it is just one of those instances where you do the best you can....

[Ruthla]

She also DID get a lot of resources in that thread- I personally posted suicide hotline phone number and website, as well as domestic violence resources. I'm hoping that she can't get online because she's receiving outside help right now (such as a hospital psych ward or a domestic violence shelter.)

[meowee]

I post on some non MDC forums where you are not even allowed to use the word "suicide." It is blocked out like a profanity. I think this is standard message board procedure.

[annettemarie]

I am not trying to be difficuly, but would someone be able to explain why it is more dangerous legally to host a thread about suicide than one about marijauna use to curb morning sickness, or unassisted childbirth, or drinking raw milk, or any of the other hundreds of thread topics that someone somewhere could conceive of as being dangerous?

[meowee]

annettemarie, I agree about the UC forum. I totally support the forum and the choice a woman makes about her birthing-- but this seems like a big liability to take on, esp. given that MDC has chosen not to take on other liabilities (like the defunct practitioner database). At the very least there should be some kind of disclaimer (last I checked there wasn't) on the UC forum about it "not replacing medical advice" or something legalese. I have read UC threads for years and it seems like once a year or so there is a fetal demise.

So anyway, I see your point. Again I do support the UC forum, but as you can probably tell I have a lot of lawyers in my family.

About the suicide thread though, I think there is just more precedent regarding this than there is for stuff like no vax or UC. I bet there have been lawsuits regarding carried out suicide threats made on forums, while I doubt there are any regarding no vax etc.

[annettemarie]

I'm all for UC (I don't want my PM box filling up!) I am just trying to understand what makes one topic too hot to handle, and not another.

[paquerette]

If we weren't allowed to talk about anything that anyone could conceive as dangerous, we wouldn't be left with much to talk about.

[annettemarie]

Yeah, you better get that sword fight out of your signature, missy.

[paquerette]

Hey hey! We use big clunky armor and padding and helmets and stuff, and everyone signs waivers of liability before they can play, and our swords can't be pokey, and...

Yeah, our group's combat stuff is regulated out teh wazoo. : One of the first things I think about when discussions on legal liability and sue-happiness and suchlike come up, actually.

I'm more worried about the sewing machine, actually. You know how many people sew through their fingers?

ETA: Do I detect sunburns and melanoma, and asphyxiation and allergy hazards from latex balloons in YOUR sig?

[Kincaid]

Just my opinion, but it seems a sound decision for MDC to not host space for dialogue about suicide. In that case, the whole point of the original poster is an intent to end their life. In the UC threads the intent is to give birth, hopefully complication free. The core intention of the two threads are diametrically opposite. One is to cause harm (to the self). The other to prevent harm (to the self and child).

Though I can understand fully the comment that hosting dialogue about medical decisions does open MDC to some measure of liability. I would agree with the suggestion for MDC to craft a well-written statement for the UC board saying that MDC is not liable and does not provide medical info etc and consult your health care provider for questions or concerns.

[rainbowmoon]

why is it ok for this thread to be kept going then and not one from a mama directly asking for help?
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=302576

I am still worried about snailmama and hope she is ok. I have tried to PM her after the thread was removed and got no response.

[tboroson]

Does anybody here know SnailMama's last name? I know her first name and the city and roughly the neighborhood where she lives... I'd really like to try to look her up and maybe give her a call.

[Talula Fairie]

I didn't see the original thread but my heart goes out to the woman, regardless. Suicide is a seriousl, horrible thing and I can only hope she doesn't want to go through with it.