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I love Dumbo - Page 2

post #21 of 65
6/21/05 at 2:28am
Thread Starter 
Hmmm Good Point. Teaching Opportunity...There is always at least one a day...most days hundreds if we take the time. So Tomorrows lesson will be about how some people don't treat others very nicly because they are different from themselves.

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post #22 of 65
6/21/05 at 12:49pm
Wow. I haven't seen Dumbo in years. NOw I have no interest to see it.

But why if you know it is a bad thing are you exposing your children? SO when they are adults they can expose it to their children?

Yeah, you can say, not everyone is nice to ppl who are different but the fact that it is in a cartoon we can still watch it.


Even if it didn't make you a racist (and I am NOT saying it did) it has helped you tolerate it.
post #23 of 65
6/21/05 at 1:33pm
CWM, if it would help to look at it more as an exercise in critical thinking than anything else, let me share my story:

I bought Dumbo on VHS years ago (before kids!) when I saw it was out. I was excited as I remembered having seen it as a child and hadn't seen it in a long time. I remembered Dumbo flying through the circus tent and little scenes here and there. I was, quite frankly, somewhat disappointed after I looked at it through my "adult critical lens vision." The roustabouts, the violent separation of Dumbo and his mother, the alcoholic clowns, the jive-talking crows. What a disappointment; this was not the movie I remembered!

My kids did watch it once or twice when they were toddlers, but I noticed that DS1 was greatly disturbed by the scenes with Dumbo's mother and the chains. And of course, *I* was greatly disturbed by the scene spoken of above, when Dumbo is taken to visit her and the lullaby. I made the decision to put it away. I don't care if I liked it when a child, it disturbs me now, and so I've put it away until they are older. I didn't throw it away because if they see it at a friend's or have questions about it, I want to be able to answer them and show it to them if need be to clear it up. The rousty-roundabouts and stereotypic crows are merely the icing on the cake for me there.

If it were like Bambi, where the disturbing part is there, and then over, it might pass my radar, but sadly, I found there was just too much to explain and worry that they were getting desensitized to with repeated watching. Pity, because both DS are train fanatics and they loved that train part at the beginning. But we found other train movies to satisfy that love.

I'm not calling you bad for watching it, I'm just saying one needs to realize that there are valid concerns with it. Heck, there are valid concerns about nearly everything that's on TV; it's a matter of weighing in on the amounts and types of exposure we allow for our children. I have similar concerns about many newer movies; the stereotypes are there, though they are different. To me, the key is to try to view everything through that critical lens; if it passes that test, then I can feel good about experiencing that part of childhood again through *their* eyes.
post #24 of 65
6/21/05 at 3:06pm
My kids liked Dumbo as little ones too But I haven't seen it in ages. I remember Dumbo is really cute though!

Some of us don't have big issues with Disney movies ya know? Back to perpetuating stereotypes for me I guess :
post #25 of 65
6/21/05 at 3:42pm
CWM, that's good that your son doesn't think that babies drop from the sky. Wouldn't it be wonderful if all children knew the truth about birthing (and conception for that matter) so that there wouldn't be so much to unlearn later?

Off your topic: Dumbo was very scary and upsetting to me when I was young. I just felt so bad for him and his mama And the elephants on parade song was annoying to me. My mother loved the movie, and after being forced to watch it many times, it grew on me- or I grew numb to it. I didn't even know about the racist subtext (or not so sub) until much later. But I won't be showing that movie to my son.

Abimommy :LOL
post #26 of 65
6/21/05 at 3:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnschoolnMa
Some of us don't have big issues with Disney movies ya know? Back to perpetuating stereotypes for me I guess :
I don't either. But if I realize something is like this I'm not going to let my kids stick with it.
post #27 of 65
6/21/05 at 4:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnschoolnMa
Back to perpetuating stereotypes for me I guess :
Gosh, this just doesn't seem like a whistl-ish type of statement to me. Maybe :, , , , , , :Puke, or would be more appropriate?
post #28 of 65
6/21/05 at 4:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by butterflyma
Gosh, this just doesn't seem like a whistl-ish type of statement to me. Maybe :, , , , , , :Puke, or would be more appropriate?
Oh my whistle face was done in a tongue-in-cheek, sarcasm kinda way. (We need a tongue in cheek smiley lol) But a wink or roll eyes face could have worked too.
post #29 of 65
6/21/05 at 4:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnschoolnMa
Oh my whistle face was done in a tongue-in-cheek, sarcasm kinda way. (We need a tongue in cheek smiley lol) But a wink or roll eyes face could have worked too.
I understood, but disagree with the tongue in cheek-ness of this statement. :agreetodisagreesmilie:
post #30 of 65
6/21/05 at 5:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnschoolnMa
My kids liked Dumbo as little ones too But I haven't seen it in ages. I remember Dumbo is really cute though!

Some of us don't have big issues with Disney movies ya know? Back to perpetuating stereotypes for me I guess :
Well, ya know, we own most of the Disney movies. Not really a problem for us, either - most of the time. The problem comes with not at least acknowledging that these stereotypes exist. And with Dumbo, they are certainly more visible than they are with some of the other films. That's one of the points I was trying to make.

And it's not just Disney, either, nor is it the old movies. The new ones have their problems, too. I have some major problems with "Shark Tale," for example; not enough to ban the watching of it, but enough to make me not that fond of it, either.
post #31 of 65
6/21/05 at 5:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by coopnwhitsmommy
Dumbo Is cool. And My Son is SOOOO Smart. In the opening scenes when the storks are dropping off the babies he says. "that's not how babies are born" :LOL
Oh, and CWM, I never addressed your original comment, LOL. My son said this, too, and it *was* cute! :
post #32 of 65
6/21/05 at 5:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnschoolnMa
Oh my whistle face was done in a tongue-in-cheek, sarcasm kinda way.
Yep, racism, that's sure a fun tongue-in-cheek subject. Good thing you're not one of those downers who actually take it seriously.
post #33 of 65
6/21/05 at 5:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tracymom
Well, ya know, we own most of the Disney movies. Not really a problem for us, either - most of the time. The problem comes with not at least acknowledging that these stereotypes exist. And with Dumbo, they are certainly more visible than they are with some of the other films. That's one of the points I was trying to make.
Oh yes, acknowledging the stereotypes and discussing them, etc is great. My family does that often.

Quote:
And it's not just Disney, either, nor is it the old movies. The new ones have their problems, too. I have some major problems with "Shark Tale," for example; not enough to ban the watching of it, but enough to make me not that fond of it, either.
We really enjoyed Shark Tale. We did see the stereotypes in it and pointed them out actually, so I can see what you are saying. We don't ban anything really.
post #34 of 65
6/21/05 at 5:52pm
Dumbo was on TV here the other day, Joe was watching it while coloring & I was going in & out of the room... I saw the part with the workers, & I was amazed- I had no recollection of that at all. I missed the crows though.

Joe has seen a lot of Disney movies, some have their moments, but Dumbo was chock full of stuff that I could not believe had ever been okay. Sad.

He has the stage version of Peter Pan, with Cathy Rigby, & we have talked about how "Indians" are not as they are portrayed in the movie. My dad's family has a lot of Native American blood so this is important to me.
post #35 of 65
6/21/05 at 5:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by girlndocs
Yep, racism, that's sure a fun tongue-in-cheek subject. Good thing you're not one of those downers who actually take it seriously.
So I need to clear something up? Am I now a racist because I watch and enjoy Disney movies? Seriously? Because I have room in my sig line for more....

To the OP: I thought what your son said about babies being born was really cute. Sorry I tweaked your thread a bit.
post #36 of 65
6/21/05 at 6:57pm
I said what I said. If you think that passing on racist stereotypes is something you can flippantly toss off with a wink or an eyeroll, then you obviously don't take racism very seriously. And yes, condoning/perpetuating racism is racist behavior.
post #37 of 65
6/21/05 at 11:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by girlndocs
I said what I said. If you think that passing on racist stereotypes is something you can flippantly toss off with a wink or an eyeroll, then you obviously don't take racism very seriously. And yes, condoning/perpetuating racism is racist behavior.
My wink and/or eyeroll was about the vibe I was getting that watching Dumbo (or other Disney movies) makes one a racist NOT about racism itself.

Watching a movie (or even several movies) with racism in them doesn't make a person a racist. So if I watch Gone with the Wind, or allow my kids to (they have) then I am passing on racist stereotypes?
post #38 of 65
6/22/05 at 1:14am
No one ever said watching certain movies made someone "a racist".

The point has been made that when small children watch media with racist messages, they absorb its messages as part of their view of the world they live in.

Yes, to allow that to happen is to be complicit in perpetuating racist stereotypes in our society.

To accept the perpetuation of racism in our society, or to minimize its importance, is racist behavior.
post #39 of 65
6/22/05 at 3:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by girlndocs
The point has been made that when small children watch media with racist messages, they absorb its messages as part of their view of the world they live in.
And if they grow up with discussion and guidance about these things the problem would be what exactly? Yes, racism is (unfortunately) part of the world we live in. Rather than hide that (no, I am not out looking for opportunities to show it to them either...) from them we just discuss it as it comes up.

Quote:
To accept the perpetuation of racism in our society, or to minimize its importance, is racist behavior.
Well, I agree And then we have no issue because that isn't what I was talking about doing lol. I was talking about watching a movie that has racist stereotypes in it, and discussing it with my kids rather than just banning the movie. Which unless I am mistaken is what some are in favor of doing, and that's fine...but I don't think that owning and watching Dumbo or any other means we are teaching/allowing/helping kids to be racist.
post #40 of 65
6/22/05 at 3:23am
Wow didn't expect this discussion when I opened this thread.

We don't really watch this movie though we have and we have discussed it. It just upsets my boys too much. CWM that is very cute that your boy said that : And I love the song Baby Mine ( though not the scene in the movie) in fact I danced with my "baby" brother to this at our wedding and often sing it to my boys.

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