Dads! Do you let your kids play with guns? - Page 8

[CaraboosMama]

Originally Posted by father_knows_best

I do not let my kids play with guns because i want to hard wire the desire to negotiate and compromise and get along while they are childrenn first but i am not affraid to let them know of the dual nature of the world in an age approprate manner. .

I have only read a few responses, but the reason I clicked on the thread to begin with was to mention that pretend gun play (or other weapon play) has been studied by many organizations (psychological, educational) and my understanding is that there is little correlation between this type of play and aggressive or violent behaviour. (there is much a much larger correlation between violent behaviour and tv watching: ) the good guy/bad guy archetypes are something that children - often but not only boys - like to act out. It is not much different than children playing house and trying on the role of mommy or daddy.

Obviously, children who live with exposure to actual violence may have different issues with this type of play - but I believe as a general rule it isn't inherantly bad.

Gun control (which it seems is where the discussion headed) is really a different discussion. I think the US would do well to get a handle on enforcing the laws that are already in effect rather than adding new ones. Most people who commit crimes with guns don't obtain the legally anyhow - stricter punishments might be a better solution than more laws:

Will I let my kids play w/ toy guns? We probably won't buy any, but I woun't forbid them either. I prefer squirt "guns" that look like objects other than guns but I love water play like that in the summer. DD is 3 1/2 and DS is 15 mths - neither have expressed an interest or seen anything weapon related at this point, so it hasn't been an issue yet.

[Jeanne D'Arc]

I agree with the some of the sentiments expressed here.

I grew up with a father who hunts and owned guns, he was
very responsible about it. If my daughter decides she
desires to learn to hunt like i did i am perfectly okay
with that.

And secondly gun control doesnt lower crime. At all.
Criminals aren't the ones registering their guns anyway.

Besides its a right listed in our Constitution to own and
bear arms. Maybe not little kids but adults yes. If someone
breaks into my home and threatens my family's life I would
rather be a gun owner.

Yes, i would rather the laws prohibit known criminals from
buying them but the truth of the matter is they buy them anyway!
Honestly, when you unarm citizens and leave all the guns and weapons
in the hands of criminals it doesnt paint a very pretty picture for us.
California has some of the strictest gun laws, and you know what?
It has one of the highest crime rates! The laws aren't helping us here.

Vermont and New Hampshire have very lax gun laws, and you can
open carry w/o a permit ( to my knowlege) they both have one
of the lowest crime rates in the U.S.

Gun control does not equal less violence, it doesnt equal less crime
and it certainly doesnt equal less GUNS.

[Greg B]

For what it is worth, when my children were young, we discussed this. And we had freinds who were adament about not having any guns, and toy guns in particular, in the house.

The interesting thing we discovered, was that our children, including the ones whose parents would not allow any toy guns in their house, used many other objects to "make" guns when needed. they would build Duplo or lego guns, use sticks, anything "L" shaped, and of course, their hand's with a finger pointing as the barrel of a gun.

We soon realize that we couldn't prevent them from playing with "guns" by simply not allowing toy guns in the house....

[Nichevo]

I am a professional soldier. Weapons of all types are a part of my life and a part of the life of my family. My wife and I both shoot, and will continue to do so. Gun owners do have a responsibility to ensure that any weapons they own are secured to the highest degree possible.

My daughter is too young at the moment to even consider playing with guns. When she is older she, (and any other children we may have), will be introduced to firearms at an appropriate age and the importance of safety and responsibility when it comes to firearms. Should she decide that she would like to learn how to shoot, I will be happy to teach her.

As for toy guns, I don't see the problem with them, (I do agree they should be as different from real firearms as possible to reinforce the difference.)

[joey791]

Yes my kids have played with toy guns all their life, its actually unfortunate the way things are today. I was brought up in the country and I started hunting when I was 4 and gun safety was always of the utmost importance. I hunted with a pellet gun and then moved on to a 4-10. We always walked with the barrel cracked(single shot), when you saw your target you closed the barrel and pointed at the target, only then when you were on your target and everyone was clear could you cock the hammer and then fire.

I know I expounded a bit more but for some people its a way of life even beyond the toy realm.

[Marilyn82]

Wow 7 pages forgive me for not reading them all, though I did read a few!

I have recently been expanding my personal feelings on this issue, so I thought I would chime in.

I was raised in a completely anti-gun (not so much as a water gun, no watching tv shows where guns were being used etc) household and naturally was inclined to raise my son in the same environment. I am always in some phase of vegetarianism and am a very non-violent person. I have always believed guns to be dangerous (which of course they can be) and have had nothing to do with them my whole life.

I recently remarried and my son is now 4. I married a hunting guide. I could not imagine ever having 11 guns in my house, but now I do (locked up in safes and not loaded of course). I was worried that my husband would disagree with me about the no playing with guns rule, being such an avid gun enthusiast and having been bred with hunting and shooting since he was tiny. I was surprised that he actually feels even more strongly than I do that kids should not play with toy guns or even pretend something is a gun.

His feeling is that guns are NOT toys, they are TOOLS, and they are very dangerous tools at that.He believes that our son should have a healthy fear and respect for what guns can do and what they are really used for. I'm not sure I am explaining that properly, but I thought it was interesting coming from someone with a background like his.

[PGTlatte]

This is my feeling too. I am not anti-gun. I feel there is a time and a place for firearms. However, it is my feeling that they are not toys, and they are not for children. Also they are different than other tools because there are deep ethical considerations that go along with guns. I feel that the best way to give our kids a respect for guns is to not ever make light of what they can do and what they are made to do, and not make them an object for play. So except for super soakers (my one concession), we will not have toy guns. When they are old enough, they will have the opportunity to learn to use them, with safety and responsible handling the first priority. They can learn about the different types, and their uses, and how they work, and the ethical issues, and later they will probably have the opportunity to hunt with DH if they want to. Eventually we know they will both be adults who will decide on their own ideas about firearms. We are hoping to give them a base of respect and information from which to do that.

Originally Posted by Marilyn82

His feeling is that guns are NOT toys, they are TOOLS, and they are very dangerous tools at that.He believes that our son should have a healthy fear and respect for what guns can do and what they are really used for.

[Brown Nipples]

Absolutely my child will play with toy guns. He will treat them with the same respect as I would treat a real gun. You don't point it at other people, only keep it pointed in a safe direction, and you always treat the gun as it was loaded. That way when he is old enough to shoot a real gun he will have the understanding and the maturity to handle the responsibility. As a child I played with toy guns all the time, but you know what? I didn't play shootout with the indians or cops and robbers. I played hunting scenarios with my stuffed animals.

I may be flamed for this, but my child will shoot guns as soon as he is able to hold one. It is a great way to learn respect and responsibility, as well as maturity. It is a part of life as far as I am concerned and it will be a part of life in my family for generations to come. It is a right that we all should be proud of. The right to defend our families and follow the traditions our forefathers laid out for us.

Thanks for listening.


Josh

[Marilyn82]

Originally Posted by Brown Nipples

Absolutely my child will play with toy guns. He will treat them with the same respect as I would treat a real gun. You don't point it at other people, only keep it pointed in a safe direction, and you always treat the gun as it was loaded. That way when he is old enough to shoot a real gun he will have the understanding and the maturity to handle the responsibility. As a child I played with toy guns all the time, but you know what? I didn't play shootout with the indians or cops and robbers. I played hunting scenarios with my stuffed animals.

I may be flamed for this, but my child will shoot guns as soon as he is able to hold one. It is a great way to learn respect and responsibility, as well as maturity. It is a part of life as far as I am concerned and it will be a part of life in my family for generations to come. It is a right that we all should be proud of. The right to defend our families and follow the traditions our forefathers laid out for us.

Thanks for listening.


Josh

Interesting. How old is your child? I'm only asking because I am curious how you would expect to control his playtime activities. I suppose it would be easier if the child was not exposed to any other use for guns besides hunting etc.

I personally, while I would not choose to have any guns of my own if it weren't for my husband, definitely see the value of ingraining gun safety at a very early age so that it becomes absolutely second nature, especially in a family that goes hunting etc. Just thought I would chime in on that, since I never before would have seen your point untill I have come to see it a little differently as of late.

[Marilyn82]

Originally Posted by dadinblue

Are you the only resident on your island?


As a Canadian police officer, I can tell you that if you only KNEW what a random sampling of the public has on them as weapons, you would stay in your house forever and never come out.

Broken glass taped up to make a handle. 8" box cutters. Tin can lid folded to give a sharp edge. Knives, drugs, pepper-spray in various sizes from keychain to Dog The Bounty Hunter size. Guns, both real and replica (and no matter what any bleeding heart says, you CAN't tell if it's real or replica from 10' away, in good light or bad...) socks with padlocks or doorknobs or pool balls inside. Lengths of heavy chain with sharpened bolts sticking out to fashion a flail.

Kids with razor blades stuck in their shoes so when they kick someone the person gets cut. Dirty drug needles. Moonshine. Machetes. and good old fashioned pocket knives.

As far as gun-control goes, the only people being controlled by our laws are the law-abiding. Criminals don't register their guns and they don't care that they're supposed to.

Anyone can get a gun in any of Canada's larger cities in under an hour. Gun control? Multi-million dollar boondoggle.

Brilliant....I find that most people who are for gun control don't honestly know the stats. I'm saying that as someone who used to be for gun control, and now is not...not speaking for anyone here of course, I would assume everyone's opinions on the matter are more than just arbitrary opinions, I think most of the mamas and daddys here are researchers if nothing else

But I just wanted to say that I found your post interesting. I also found it interesting that when I was looking into this issue I was getting ready to move to Wyoming...here we have more guns (lots and lots of farmers and hunters!) per capita than any other state....we also at the same time have less gun accidents and gun related crime per capita than any other state! That was really very eye opening to me.

And btw, yes in more rural areas it definitely can be important to have a gun in defense of dangerous animals, like here...bears! No wild dogs yet though, so I guess thats good

[Brown Nipples]

Originally Posted by Marilyn82

Interesting. How old is your child? I'm only asking because I am curious how you would expect to control his playtime activities. I suppose it would be easier if the child was not exposed to any other use for guns besides hunting etc.

I personally, while I would not choose to have any guns of my own if it weren't for my husband, definitely see the value of ingraining gun safety at a very early age so that it becomes absolutely second nature, especially in a family that goes hunting etc. Just thought I would chime in on that, since I never before would have seen your point until I have come to see it a little differently as of late.

Actually my wife is in her 2nd trimester with our first at the moment. I'm glad to hear you have a more open mind now about guns than before. Some people are so closed minded they won't even try and see my side even when I provide facts and statistics to back up my point of view. Too bad, but I try and am always respectful of their point of view. Usually I don't get the same respect in return, but that's another issue all together.

As for controlling my child's play time, I'm just going to have to explain when their old enough the difference between TV and the real world. In the real world people only use guns to hunt, shoot for fun, and protect our country. I hope to convey that what they eventually will see on tv is wrong and not the way a gun should ever be used for.

Also, I will limit their play guns to practical play guns. Such as a fake bolt action rifle, fake shotgun, muzzle loader etc. No fake machine guns or pistols. I feel this approach will help with teaching them the proper use of guns.

josh

[Marilyn82]

Originally Posted by Brown Nipples

Actually my wife is in her 2nd trimester with our first at the moment. I'm glad to hear you have a more open mind now about guns than before. Some people are so closed minded they won't even try and see my side even when I provide facts and statistics to back up my point of view. Too bad, but I try and am always respectful of their point of view. Usually I don't get the same respect in return, but that's another issue all together.

As for controlling my child's play time, I'm just going to have to explain when their old enough the difference between TV and the real world. In the real world people only use guns to hunt, shoot for fun, and protect our country. I hope to convey that what they eventually will see on tv is wrong and not the way a gun should ever be used for.

Also, I will limit their play guns to practical play guns. Such as a fake bolt action rifle, fake shotgun, muzzle loader etc. No fake machine guns or pistols. I feel this approach will help with teaching them the proper use of guns.

josh

Congrats on your upcoming arrival! Yes I try to be open minded, and I tend to believe I can always learn from people, so therefore not intelligent to shut out someones beliefs until you've given them a good listen! Well I found your ideas pretty interesting and thought provoking...I'm going to have to bring it up with my husband since I have never thought of allowing a child to play with toy guns as a means of instilling gun safety habits and learning about 'real world' gun use. Thanks for giving me something to chew on!

[Nichevo]

Originally Posted by Brown Nipples

Absolutely my child will play with toy guns. He will treat them with the same respect as I would treat a real gun. You don't point it at other people, only keep it pointed in a safe direction, and you always treat the gun as it was loaded. That way when he is old enough to shoot a real gun he will have the understanding and the maturity to handle the responsibility. As a child I played with toy guns all the time, but you know what? I didn't play shootout with the indians or cops and robbers. I played hunting scenarios with my stuffed animals.

I may be flamed for this, but my child will shoot guns as soon as he is able to hold one. It is a great way to learn respect and responsibility, as well as maturity. It is a part of life as far as I am concerned and it will be a part of life in my family for generations to come. It is a right that we all should be proud of. The right to defend our families and follow the traditions our forefathers laid out for us.

Thanks for listening.


Josh

Bravo and well said!

Just out of curiosity have you read anything by Dave Grossman?

[Brown Nipples]

Originally Posted by Nichevo

Bravo and well said!

Just out of curiosity have you read anything by Dave Grossman?

Sorry, not familer with his works. I'm just simple country folk, not much for reading these days.



Josh

[imilian]

representational toys

I may be a bit late to this thread but here's my 2 cents:
I played with toy guns. They were a blast, and we all got plenty of exercise out in the woods. We played teams, all against all, all against one - some of the most exhilarating times of my childhood were spent with toy guns. (darn those orange tips though... what a let down)

I also grew up shooting real guns. For some reason my dad (post hippie classical musician Seattle livin' liberal) took an interest in target shooting and my brother and I followed him to the woods or the range. Besides the zen of stance, and aiming, we learned some VERY IMPORTANT THINGS about guns. Like: ALWAYS check a gun to see if its loaded EVEN IF your best friend/family member checked it RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU. and: NEVER point it at a person EVEN IF you just checked and it is unloaded, unless you intend to shoot, possibly kill them. In middle school, had I come across a loaded weapon in the hallway I know that I would have been able to handle it safely and get it out of there.

So I guess my point is that if guns are prevalent in the culture, we can't take a head in the sand position on them even if we wish that they didn't exist. Children need to have respect for their power and ability to end life instantaneously. They only question remaining for me is when. I suppose when my son starts taking an interest.

My other thought on this is something Waldorf teaches - "no representational toys" Its true that when one of my friends got a super awesome toy uzi for christmas we all wanted to be the ones playing with it, but sticks worked fine, and rather than being spellbound by a piece of black plastic modeled just so, we filled in the gaps with our imaginations. Don't get me wrong, when I successfully penetrated the other teams line of defense and inched up on an opponent, mother earth's creation didn't make it any less gorey.
Representational toys lock the image in place - they can't be anything else. Plus they create hierarchies: the richer kid generally has the cooler toy. Picking up a stick (in the woods there are plenty of them) personalizes the experience. I once held onto my super awesome stick for hours after the game was clearly over just because after how familiar I became with it it seemed a shame to just throw it away.

Then again I was fortunate to have access to the woods. Perhaps this could be read as elitist. Well, kids probably shouldn't be playing with anything that looks remotely like guns in the city - cops have been known to "return fire".

Here's my added edit: Shouldn't we be asking whether we let our kids play with cars? Aren't they deadlier??

[harpertrance]

we have toy guns and swords in my apartment, son and husband play with them. they enjoy it.

[Julian's Momma]

No Way!

What is "playful" about a deadly weapon? The only reason I'd want to my DS to play with something is because it stimulates the desire and understanding of how to do it in real life or stimulates creativity.

I hope my son never has to hold a gun in his life. No guns here, ever. I just don't get it.

[SaraGriffin]

We own a gun and as Kaia grows up we will certainly educate her about it - we don't want her to be fearful of it but there is no way we will let her PLAY with it! We own it for the sole purpose of protection against a home invasion et al.
As far as toy guns, I don't really see the point of letting my baby play like she is shooting something just for the sake of it.

[Brown Nipples]

Originally Posted by Julian's Momma

What is "playful" about a deadly weapon? The only reason I'd want to my DS to play with something is because it stimulates the desire and understanding of how to do it in real life or stimulates creativity.

I hope my son never has to hold a gun in his life. No guns here, ever. I just don't get it.

A weapon is only as deadly as the person behind it. I hope you never have to defend your family with no guns around. Its not like having a gun makes you a bad person. Being prepared is something all parents should think about. What if someone broke into your house? Are you gonna throw the lamp at them? I'm not saying keep a gun under you pillow, but you should at least educate yourself a little. Having such close minded opinions is more dangerous than anything. IMHO.


Josh

[Brown Nipples]

Originally Posted by SaraGriffin

We own a gun and as Kaia grows up we will certainly educate her about it - we don't want her to be fearful of it but there is no way we will let her PLAY with it! We own it for the sole purpose of protection against a home invasion et al.
As far as toy guns, I don't really see the point of letting my baby play like she is shooting something just for the sake of it.

Why not teach your child to hunt? It is a special feeling to harvest your own food. Not having someone do the dirty work for you. That way you know who has handled it and how it got to your table. Lots of lesson can be taught this way.


Josh