Addressing the Special Needs of Gifted Children #5 - Page 9

[Queen of Cups]

Wow, Rynna, I have wondered the exact same thing several times. EVERYONE thinks DS is older than he is. He's pretty big for his age (though at this point he's only at the 85th percentile for height and the 60th percentile for weight, so he's not huge by any means). I think a big part of it is self-expression. DS was able to express his emotions very early - by 4 months or so he was extremely interactive and had a wide range of facial expressions that strangers could pick up on. It seems to be that most parents can read their child's expressions by that point, but strangers can't for awhile longer. At a Renaissance Festival we took DS to when he was about 5 months old everyone thought he was at least 8-9 months old because he was just so interactive. Also, humor seems to play into it. When DS was 6 weeks old my uncle commented that he had an very interesting and mature sense of humor. Recognizing humor is definitely a sign of giftedness, of course - the ability to recognize that things are out-of-place takes a high level of awareness.

Sometimes, because DS is my first child and I've worked mostly with older kids, I forget that he's ahead of the game. A friend who has a son the same age was commenting last week that DS was very verbal, and honestly I had just been comparing him to me and DH and not thinking of him as very verbal. But after she mentioned it I noticed that he does talk/sign more than most 14 month olds I see.

[teachma]

Originally Posted by eilonwy

Sort of off-topic: do your kids look older than they are? I'm not talking about size, but their faces...

Interesting topic! My mom has always said people commented on that about ME as a child...and I'm the one out of her three children who ISN'T gifted! I recently saw a picture of myself as a kid and asked my mom, "Was I in kindergarten here?" and she said, "No, you were three." So, I believe her. Now, my ds was always physically big and verbally advanced, so while it was true that everyone thought he was much older than he really was, I assumed it was his size and his language, not the look of his face, that gave them that idea. Dd, on the other hand, is tiny (20th percentile as of last Friday) yet people always think she is much older than she is. It sure isn't her size, and while she does have about 75 words at 15.5 months old, she isn't nearly as obviously advanced as her brother was. I do think she has a mature look in her eyes, though, and she just "gets" everything. From a really young age, she could follow multiple step directions (put this shirt on mommy's bed and bring mommy the shorts), and the sense of humor thing is definitely there, not in ds's sarcastic way but a genuine silly, fun sense of humor. Since she was really little, she has interacted with her environment so purposefully, that I think sometimes the "mature" look is one of determination, which may not be common to such a great extent in little ones.

[eilonwy]

I was always thought to be older as a young child and younger as an older child. I'm extremely babyfaced; only having children has brought me to the point where I look my actual age. Even so, while I was pregnant with BeanBean and once while I was pregnant with BooBah, I developed acne and was stopped for truancy. Seriously. When I was a little kid, though (2/3/4/5) I was small for my age (not as small as BooBah, but as small as BeanBean) and people still thought that I was older. They treated me like I was older, too, because I didn't put up with babytalk and other such crap. I'm just very curious about it all because, like I said before, my kids are quite petite and people still believe that they're older. I know that despite the fact that BooBah is average size for a 6.5 month old, I could easily have people believing that she's 18 months old.

Strange things.

[eilonwy]

Two things:

1) I started a Yahoo! Group for this thread. If you want to join, send me a PM.

2) BeanBean asked me today to teach him how to read because "I want to read about airplanes." Just like that. He's also been talking about his dreams a lot lately. It's so strange to hear a little guy talking about his dreams. He said, "I was at Grandma and Grandpa's house and then I took a walk with Grandma around the neighborhood. I saw a PT Cruiser and an Oldsmobile and...(named about a dozen different cars). Then I pushed the stroller. We put BooBah in it so I could push her. Then I went to see the neighbor. BooBah cried. Then I went back to Grandma and Grandpa's house to see BuddyBuddy."

I asked him when this happened and he said, "When I was asleep. Can I have a nursie?" "You mean you had a dream?" "Yes, a dream. Can I have a nursie?" :LOL He's such a funny guy.

[allgirls]

wow...interesting coindidences here

Today I went and got my hair done and ran in to a lady from a playgroup I used to attend with Sophia(it was for 18 mos and under so Sophia outgrew it) anyway this mama says..."she's amazing...I swear she seems like a 4 year old" and she just turned 2...people are always saying it. And she's so teeny...24lbs yet I do think she seems older...there is a maturity about her...and awareness and understanding...my friend says she like an "old soul"

Also...Sophia woke up this morning and said "I had bad dreams" I said "you ok now?" and she said "I need nukies" so I took her in my bed and nursed her...and it's wierd because last night was the first night ever she went in the crib and insisted on sleeping there by herself without nursing to sleep. She usually nurses to sleep in my bed and at some point I put her into the crib(I sleep sounder when she's not in bed)

My best friend talks to Sophia in very simple baby language and I swear to God the looks Sophia gives her...she looks at her like "are you simple" My friend is the nicest person in the world but she doesn't really get it! LOL..we talk to her like we talk to each other so I guess she's used to that and anyone who talks little to her gets a look...well I can't describe it but it's like she thinks they are complete idiots...it's quite funny.

[NoHiddenFees]

I don't know about anyone else, but I'd be sorry to have the discussion move from MDC. New people join these threads because they were here, visible and accessible to everyone. Many people lurk for some considerable time before deciding to post themselves. I find that private split off groups from larger forums either lose their momentum as members drop out or become stagnant due to lack of new membership. Consider too the the number of MDC'ers who lurk and never post. They would lose what may be a valuable resource to them.

Just my $.02.

As to age, DD1 has always been big for her age, to Amazonian proportions. Almost literally off the chart page, much less the charts. Even now that her growth has slowed, most people assume she's at least 4. She's still got enough baby fat that she doesn't really look 5 or 6. DD2 on the other hand looks younger than she is. She's 75th percentile for height and 98th for weight, but she's so round and toothless she looks about 10 months (albeit a huge 10 months).

[teachma]

Off topic, but...I'm wondering, what kinds of words did/does your gifted toddler use? We often talk about how many words they say but not about the kinds of words they have in their repertoire. Here's where I'm coming from: Dd is almost 16 months old. She may or may not be gifted; most likely she's just a pretty smart kid. She regularly uses between 75-100 words, almost al of them nouns. From the ack seat of the car, she'll converse with me like this:

T: Beach.
Me: Did we go to the beach yesterday?
T: Dada, A
Me: Yes, we went with Dada and A.
T: Boats. Wa-wa.
Me: We did see a lot of boats in the water.

This can go on for 10 min. and is sometimes impressive to many other people, but she only ever contributes nouns to our conversation. This, I imagine, is very typical. Ds, on the other hand, had all sorts of words...by 12 months old, he regularly used the words: doing (to ask "What are you doing?"), happened (to ask, "What happened?") idea (to tell us he had an idea- yes this is a noun, but a pretty advanced concept for a 1 year old) interesting (when he noticed somethig new). Does this sort of complex vocabulary seem like the way your gifted child developed language?

[loraxc]

Hmm. DD is 18 months and has over 400 words (we stopped counting) but I would say that the majority of them--maybe 60%--are still nouns. However, she also uses many adjectives and verbs, a few pronouns, and some prepositions. She speaks in 2- to 4-word sentences most of the time, but many of those sentences follow well-traveled patterns, if that makes sense. ("Dada _______ing. I see a _____. We go ________. Mama get _____. That's a______.")

I'm not positive of this, but I think the ability to carry on a conversation about something in the absence of the thing itself is unusual at that age. DD has been doing this for a while ("DD, what do we do yesterday?" "Go pool.") but it seems to surprise people.

[ChristaN]

It has been so long since my girls were toddlers that I don't really remember how their language broke down as far as parts of speech are concerned. I know that my almost 7 year old uses different words than her peers that are perhaps more complex, but that may just be b/c she is picking up mannerisms from me since I notice that she often expresses herself in a manner similar to how I express myself. For instance, she will regularly say things like, "as I mentioned, ..." or "I'm perplexed."

I do think that, in general, advanced vocabularies or methods of expression are fairly common among gifted children. I do remember when dd #1 was about 16-18 months old, I was working on something in the basement & she was napping in her room on the second floor. I heard a scream up there & went running up. She was sitting on her bed crying & said, "I upstairs, no mommy. I downstairs, no mommy. No mommy!" (i.e. - she had checked the upstairs & downstairs & I was nowhere to be found & she was convinced that she was alone.) It was fairly cute at the time - poor kiddo!

[flyingspaghettimama]

Uh, so has no one on here had their child tested for schooling reasons (either within the public schools or in a psychologist's office), etc? We had to in order to apply at a certain school (which did not just accept gifted, but all ranges - used it to determine learning style, strengths and weaknesses, etc).

Regarding language, I can absolutely state that my child wasn't ahead at all, and in fact a little behind, regarding language but took off around age 3. Around 2.5, the speech therapist told me that it was because my husband and I were speaking too fast and her language was impeded by that. Ah well. I knew one mom who swore up and down that her 6 week old baby knew the whole Gilmore Girls theme song and could sing it word for word, and when the baby did it, uhhh, no, it sure sounded like a 6 week old baby babbling, no theme song. I think it's probably people like this that cast doubt on any sort of advanced skills...

If you're shy about the testing, you can PM me - I have some questions, if you don't mind.

[ChristaN]

As far as I know, testing is not available to us in the public school system where we live. They base admission into the TAG (Talented & Gifted) program entirely on teacher recommendation up through 2nd grade & then standardized testing (CSAP in our instance) scores play a part in determining which children get into TAG along with teacher recommendations.

Apparently each class is capped at about 5 kids/class going to TAG so if your child is in a class of relatively slower children academically, s/he has a good possibility of getting into TAG, but if there are a bunch of bright kids in his/her class, your child may not get in even if s/he is functioning significantly above grade level.

I'm not sure that I am terribly fond of the methods used for determining eligibility for gifted programs here, but they are what they are. Our only other option would be private testing &, as I wrote earlier in this thread, that is unbelievably expensive. Given that that type of info wouldn't play into determining what services are available through the school for my children, I'm not sure that it is worth it. If it was free, though, I'd probably do it.

[loraxc]

Sort of off-topic: do your kids look older than they are? I'm not talking about size, but their faces.

I would have said "No," but oddly enough, I was talking to a friend on the phone today who had just seen new photos of DD, and she commented that if she didn't know her actual age (18m) she would take her for at least 2, and maybe 3. Admittedly, she's insanely tall (34"), but my friend kept saying "No, it's more than that."

As I said earlier, people frequently think she's older than she is, but I have always assumed that's because she's big and talks nonstop.

[mcsarahb]

Originally Posted by teachma

I'm wondering, what kinds of words did/does your gifted toddler use?

Well, my dd is only 14.5 mos. now, and I'm not sure about her giftedness, but I'll chime in.

She has many, many nouns (500? More? I really don't know) and a few verbs and adjectives. However, she has many one-word "commands": Up, open, etc. She also has a few two-word sentences/phrases that signify actions: Feed Joe (the cat), baby sit, etc.) In general, though, her daily narration of events largely employs nouns, like your dd's conversation.

About the looking older thing: DD is very baby-faced, about 50th percentile for height, and still roly-poly. People tend to think she's a 9- or 10-mo-old early walker, and are doubly astounded at her chatter, facial expressions, and sense of humor.

Sarah

[teachma]

Oops- I forgot about a whole class of words my dd uses with ease and frequency- the onomotopoeia! (Did I misspell that?) She has a number of sounds that represent objects, usually sounds that the objects themselves make when operating. So for instance, if I say that something is hot, she will say "Dada" and make a sound like "Ah-ah-ah" which is her way of referring to the coffee grinder/pot, which we often tell her is hot. So she can't say "Oh, just like the coffee pot gets hot" but she can let us know what she's thinking. Or if we drive by a fire truck she will make the perfect sound of a siren. But again, dd is not likely gifted...it's still fun to talk about language development in a kid who's developing it quickly. And though we aren't supposed to compare our kids to our other kids, that can be fun and interesting to do, too. :

[eilonwy]

BeanBean had a huge vocabulary at 14 months, but didn't really talk like a person until he was closer to 18 months. What I mean by that is, he had *loads* of words, but it wasn't until he was around 18 months old that strangers could understand him more than 90% of the time. At 33 months old, he says things like "that's not possible," and "that word is unacceptable," without even thinking about it. When he throws fits he'll tell me that he's very frustrated with me, or "irritated beyond belief" (one guess where he picked that gem up . :LOL

BooBah's vocabulary seems to be smaller (she's 13 months old), but I'm not quite sure. She seems to pick up new words at an almost alarming rate... Anyway, most of her words are nouns with a few very well loved verbs thrown in for good measure: love, want, need, get, go, like, have, is, eat, drink... Hm. Now that I think about it, she has a fair number of verbs. :LOL Most of her speech is simple two or three word sentences, but she has a few very common (in our home) longer ones. "May I please have a nursie? Must be very gentle." Her speech is blurrier than BeanBean's was at this age, but I understand her and I'm often surprised to find that strangers understand her, too. Well, baby-sympathetic strangers, anyway. :LOL

I've been thinking about speech a lot lately, and becoming more and more convinced that I have no idea what a normal child sounds like. : I met a five year old who talked exactly like my five year old niece with Asperger's does. This child didn't seem to have any developmental issues, though; she behaved in what I saw as a normal five year old manner, she made eye contact, smiled, etc. Everything seemed right on and average except for her speech. I've always thought of my niece's language development as slow (in fact the entire family has) but apparently average five year olds really talk like that. When I hear two year olds talk I often feel an urge to shove BeanBean into his carseat as quickly as possible. : I've always known that he was exceptionally verbal, but the older he gets the more pronounced the differences become...

Christa-- that system sounds so ridiculous to me! Who the heck decides that only the top five kids in any class could possibly be gifted?! Yick! And it's all based on teacher recomendations? I'd totally throw a tantrum. :

[eilonwy]

Originally Posted by NoHiddenFees

I don't know about anyone else, but I'd be sorry to have the discussion move from MDC. New people join these threads because they were here, visible and accessible to everyone. Many people lurk for some considerable time before deciding to post themselves. I find that private split off groups from larger forums either lose their momentum as members drop out or become stagnant due to lack of new membership. Consider too the the number of MDC'ers who lurk and never post. They would lose what may be a valuable resource to them.

Just my $.02.

The point of the group isn't to replace this thread, just to have another outlet for our chattiness. We could build an archive of fun gifted sites, for example, and an FAQ (how many people have come to this thread to ask "how do you know if your kid is gifted?") for kids of various ages, and all sorts of other fun things. We can also occasionally have all out brag sessions, and have a safe place to vent when people come here to post that most kids aren't gifted and ours probably aren't, either. We'll still be here for the lurkers.

[Daffodil]

Lindy had some trouble learning to talk, so she wasn't using any complex vocabulary very early on. But I was surprised by how many of her early words were not nouns. I dug up an old post of mine from when she was 19 months, and here's what I said then:

The collection of words she says regularly strikes me as a bit quirky: Mom, Dad, more, on, in, dry, hot, blue, book, bread, bowl, hat, foot, O (as in O cereal), dig, cut, hide, roll, cuff (as in "cuff up my pants"), and hang. Plus the names of some letters.

As far as looking old for her age - she doesn't at all. I think almost everyone assumes she's younger than she is, because she's on the small side, still doesn't have a whole lot of hair, and has small features. And, until recently, she didn't talk much around other people, and when she did it usually wasn't loud or clear enough for anyone but me to understand. I do sometimes see babies/toddlers who look really young to me and then learn they're much older than I thought. A lot of them just look so vacant and unaware compared to the way I remember Lindy at the same age. But maybe everyone thinks that - maybe everyone is just able to read their own babies better than other people's.

[TiredX2]

Originally Posted by loraeileen

Uh, so has no one on here had their child tested for schooling reasons (either within the public schools or in a psychologist's office), etc? We had to in order to apply at a certain school (which did not just accept gifted, but all ranges - used it to determine learning style, strengths and weaknesses, etc).

DD was tested for the gifted program in our school district.

Here is their testing proceedure:

Round I:
We administer the Iowa Test of Basic Skills (ITBS), one grade level above the student's current level, to all students who have met the screening criteria. Students who meet the ITBS achievement criteria will be scheduled for a Cognitive Abilities Test.

My note--- CRITERIA: 95% or above

Round II:
We administer the Cognitive Abilities Test (CogAT) to students who have met the ITBS achievement criteria in Round I.

My note--- CRITERIA: full time program 95%, 1 day pull out 91%

Neither of those are IQ tests so we have not had DD IQ tested though she has been officially identified as "gifted" (/highly capable) with our school district. I don't know if I could answer any questions since she hasn't done a traditional IQ test.

[loraxc]

When I hear two year olds talk I often feel an urge to shove BeanBean into his carseat as quickly as possible. I've always known that he was exceptionally verbal, but the older he gets the more pronounced the differences become...

I'm interested and a little surprised by this. I have been assuming that DD's verbal skills would become less obvious as she gets older. I know lots of 2-year-olds who can chat up a storm (I also know some who say very little, but...) so I was figuring things would sort of smooth out a little once the other kids could be expected to be pretty verbal too, and we that we will get less comments. I've been sort of looking forward to it. :

She has just taken to saying "That's delicious!" "That's interesting," and "I understand." She is fascinated with names right now. She has a nickname that we've always used and a full name that we use maybe 5% of the time, and she now insists on referring to herself with her full name. She knows her name (nickname), her "other name," her last name, and her whole name, and loves to be asked about them.

[NoHiddenFees]

Originally Posted by loraxc

I have been assuming that DD's verbal skills would become less obvious as she gets older.

I'm assuming this too, but it hasn't happened yet. DD1 will say things that many/most? of her agemates just don't understand. Sometimes she's visibly annoyed, but usually she lets it drop gracefully. She go apoplectic, however, if someone insists on the veracity of something she KNOWS is not true. There's not a competetive bone in her body, but she will always stick up for truth. With a new group of kids within a few minutes, another parent will point out how "well DD1 speaks."