Are boys 'saved' from circ? semantics

[QueenOfThePride]

I frequently read expressions such as: "I'm glad we saved him from circ," or "I'm so upset I didn't save him from being circ'ed." Is 'save' the right word? Are doctors coming at boys with Gomco clamps and Plastibells and you must intervene to protect your son? (That's another oft-heard word, 'protect') Is it really this bad? If you give consent for circumcision, it goes so far beyond 'failure to protect'. That is active intentional harm. Is this really the case in society that if you do nothing, your newborn will be circumcised, and you must actively fight to prevent it? I don't think I did anything exceptional by refusing to sign the consent form.

[aira]

I see it as appropriate language in most cases. Though I also don't see leaving my son intact as exceptional. Maybe for people who are going against some heavy brainwashing, or against the wishes of the other parent, or something, it would be an exceptional act of defiance.

Circ is the default here - either that uninformed parents automatically consent, or that docs think nothing of circing without consent. I know many nurses who think they are doing baby boys (and parents) a favor by taking him in for circ - even when parents refuse.

Parents who do not understand what is really happening to their sons, but later learn feel very burdened by it. I imagine that they wished they had known how much pain and suffering their son would experience, and therefore would have been able to stop it. Likewise, those who didn't circ and perhaps later learned more about the horrors, are glad that their son was spared, if only by indecision.

I do agree with you that it is active intentional harm in the cases where idiot parents saw all the reason to leave baby intact and "just wanted to circ", or some such nonsense. They are child abusers IMO.

[Tinijocaro]

I think spared is probably the proper term, but saved, as in "most boys here in the US get circ'd". In that sense, yes, they have been saved from undergoing a horrific procedure.

Jackie

[QueenOfThePride]

So if you are asked if you want your son circumcised and decline, then you 'save' or 'protect' him, but if you are never asked, then you really didn't 'save' him?

[alegna]

I think of it more in terms of other people's children. I saved my nephews. Their parents were all ready to go along with what they thought was the majority. I educated them (rather bluntly...)

-Angela

[Patchfire]

Well, we chose to have a homebirth for this baby (who turned out to be a boy), and we had already chosen our pediatrician for other reasons, but his position on circ was important to us too, even then. So, no, we didn't actively 'save' or 'protect' him, but the choices we made in birth setting, birth attendant, and pediatrician did protect him, and did 'save' him from being put in the potential position of someone doing something without our consent. JMO.

[eightyferrettoes]

Sure. I think "saved" is appropriate, given the cultural climate. I signed consent to a lot of things in my hospital birth-- induction, epidural (don't get me started) and if I hadn't known better, the circ consent would have just been another form to sign.

[QueenOfThePride]

So from a cultural perspective, boys who are not circ'ed were 'saved' from a brutal and barbaric cultural norm. Like if a girl in Africa 'escaped' circumcision.

[Frankly Speaking]

i would take it a step further and call most parents who decide not to circumcise HEROS. You see, you don't have to risk life or limb to save or protect the life or limb of another person. Heroism is simply going an extra distance for the benefit of others.

Here is an example: A few years back, a man was trapped on a tower crane as the building under him burned. He had no escape down the tower but he was also in no immediate danger. A rescuer swung from a helicopter to the cab of the crane and picked him off of it to take him to the ground. the rescuer was subsequently on television as a hero and was awarded medals. The fact was that the rescuer was securely tied to the helicopter by a substantial rope and there was little more danger to him than there was to the pilot or the other people in the helicopter. He just went a small step further.

Most parents who don't circumcise go an extra distance. They have been exposed to all of the myths and lies. They often have pressure from spouse and family. They are often strongly solicited by medical professionals. They have to go the extra distance to think and to educate themselves. They have to withstand all of the external pressures and they have to convince themselves that all of the myths and lies are just that, myths and lies. After that, they still have to fight off that nagging feeling that all of those infections are going to come some day and that they are going to have to battle them. They are going to have to protect their sons from ignorant medical care providers who cause harm to their sons by premature forcible retraction and from false diagnoses of phimosis.

Considering the extra distance they have to travel, it's not just saving and protecting, it's heroism in it's finest form. My hat is off to all of you heros!



Frank

[mamakay]

Awww...thank you, Frank. :

[aira]

That is true, that it's difficult to protect the penile health of our intact sons. If we could just avoid all medical care in all its forms then it would simply be up to our knowledge of intact care. But in reality, we have to go to docs, ERs, etc... And it requires nothing less than vigilance and ferocity to keep medical hands off. I failed at it once when I was just purely overwhelmed. My brain/reflexes were just slow and my boy was retracted.

For some reason there is a very powerful cultural undercurrent about controlling penises. It seems like when a med professional (with some exceptions) sees an intact boy, there is some weird motive to inflict some harm somehow. Like, he wasn't properly tamed by circ, so we have to make sure he knows pain.

Protecting boys from all this is very much swimming upstream, and I'd imagine in many cases an act of salvation.

I also agree with PP about other people's babies. (I was going to mention it in my last post, but it was getting late...) I feel, I dunno, not really proud, but peaceful in knowing that some boys were spared the suffering of circ by my actions. I feel I saved them from a fate that I see as a lifelong source of pain. For those I didn't "save", I cry for them, send them my blessings for their karma, and if they are close to me (nephews etc..) I love them fiercely. That's the only way I can cope.

[A&A]

Oh yeah, I saved him and protected him from those cut-happy-money-grubbin' dirty doctors who asked me multiple times when they could get their filthy hands on my son's penis, let me tell ya'.

Thanks, Frank.

[bremen]

just perspective here. here where i live, i n germany, you go to the hospital, and have a traditional bith. circumcision is absolutely never discussed, brought up, anything. a doctor would look at you funny for asking.
in the u.s. a parent says nothing about circ. they are asked by their dr before the birth, and usually discussed at the hospital, and sometimes circ consent forms are part of the packet of forms that is given to every delivering mother.
so, in europe, a mother says nothing, and circ is never brought up. in america, a mother says nothing, signs whatever forms are given to her, and circ is assumed. a mother must actively seek out circumcision in germany. a mother must actively avoid it in america. i do think that american mothers save their babies from circumcision

[njeb]

Well said, Bremen!
In my case, my sons were saved because I chose to birth at home. If I'd delivered at a hospital, the young, insecure woman I was back then could easily have been talked into circ'ing. That's why I can't condemn anyone for choosing to circ. It could easily have happened to me. There but for the love of God goes me.....

[sarathan]

Awww Frank, that was sweet!

[QueenOfThePride]

Bremen and Frank, both well said! I see now that I did save my son from an automatic circumcision! No wonder I was so nervous in the hospital and didn't want DS taken from my room. I tried to push it to the back of my mind, but accidents happen.