How possible is it?

[veiledexpressions]

How possible is it that my son could be circumcised even if I say no? I know it's not very likely, but I have this nightmare often. I dream that they bring him back to me circumcised (after I have my tubal surgery). I plan on making it clear at all OB appointments, when I get to the hospital, and right after the birth. I just can't help but imagine the worst, that he'd be circumcised while I wasn't with him.

[alegna]

Make sure your husband or partner or other trusted person is with your son AT ALL TIMES.

A great reason to homebirth

-Angela

[DahliaRW]

I agree with the pp, your dh or someone should be with him at all times. They legally can't do it without a parent or guardian signing the form (so read everything they give you to sign). If they do without your consent, I believe you'd have grounds for a lawsuit, though that's little consolation.

(sadly, they don't usually read the whole chart. That's how I ended up getting medicine I'm allergic too and why they asked us a million times in the hospital if we wanted ds circ'd. Next time I'm opting for a birth center!)

[mamakay]

It's pretty rare, but it does happen every once in a blue moon.
Just as a head's up, I had a hospital birth and they took my son away for a few hours for some tests against my will, and refused to let my dh go with.
I guess I could have flat-out refused...I was in post-hospital birth shock, though, and it didn't seem I had a choice.
He made it out intact, though, thank God.

[wagodog]

Originally Posted by mamakay

Just as a head's up, I had a hospital birth and they took my son away for a few hours for some tests against my will, and refused to let my dh go with.

HUH?!?!?!?! Your experience freaked me out a bit. We are due for a hospital birth in a few weeks and although the hospital policy is to encourage rooming in, we were told that there would be moments when they would have to take the baby off to the nursery. I'll be raising hell if someone tells me that I'm not allowed to go along. My only fear (aside from that) is that the circumcisions are done in the adjoining room. I would SOOOOOO hate to be in there while one was taking place. I don't know if I'd be able to hold back and not go off on the parents!

[eightyferrettoes]

Hospital births ARE scary-- and as a previous poster noted, you often feel like you're an inconvenience, that you have no choice but to follow the rules.

Screw that. If "they" tell you something "has" to be a certain way, and you're not satisfied with the explanation, the odds are good that it does NOT "have" to be done.

My DH followed our son everywhere in the hospital while I napped-- they did his first bath, his Vit. K shot, his umbilical clamping, etc right there. He never left the room, and there is absolutely no reason for him to be out of you-all's sight.

[Mommiska]

Originally Posted by eightyferrettoes

My DH followed our son everywhere in the hospital while I napped-- they did his first bath, his Vit. K shot, his umbilical clamping, etc right there. He never left the room, and there is absolutely no reason for him to be out of you-all's sight.

This is what I would do if I was birthing in an American hospital. AND I would write 'NO CIRC' in huge letters in red marker on any official papers I could find!

But I really wouldn't let my son out of my sight. I would imagine that it is really rare for a boy to be circed without parental consent these days, because doctors know they can be sued. But I just wouldn't want to take the chance that my son could be the unlucky one, you know?

Good luck!

[aira]

The staff HATED us by the time we left the hospital. I had a C-section, so it was 4 long and miserable days. Just be nothing less than a PIA if that is what's required. In no way whatsoever would my baby leave the presence of me or DH. It's child abduction if they take the babe while you are saying no. After my section at midnight, after 48 hours of labor, I slept for 2 hours while DH and my mom held DS. When I woke up I insisted that I see/hold DS and the staff refused for about 2 hours.

I've never felt so helpless and vulnerable in my life - like there was nothing I could do about it. I couldn't leave, I couldn't just go to DS - I was at their mercy. I did have my friend hand me the phone at one point to dial the police in front of the nurse. I did know that DH was with him, and I had no fear that he'd punch anyone who came near DS with knife or needle. But I wanted to nurse him and hold him - I knew he needed me - but was denied for a long time.

The rest of the stay was spent fending off everybody about all the crap they do. They seriously were trying to exploit our exhaustion. They tried everything to wear us down while so we'd be too tired to keep saying no. When they took him for bathing and weighing and such, DH went with him ALL THE TIME. They were highly annoyed and all but a few nurses made us feel in the way. We really didn't care.

I threw a nurse out of my room and reported her. She was horrible. Hurt me physically by pushing chairs into me to get me to sit, all the while telling me that she was just helping me recover from the section. She told me I was a selfish mother for not sending DS to the nursery. Don't hesitate to report if they are unprofessional or hurtful to you.

I begged for a LC as nusing was not working at all. I didn't get one until the 4th day and DS had lost 2.5 lbs. The nurses were completely uneless about nursing and even did a lot of harm by forcing his head. In the end I had to pump as long as I could b/c DS never latched. (And we went to specialists weekly for a year trying to help him.) The problems we had could've been helped early on, but were made worse.

My point is well, three things:

1a. Have more than one other highly trusted person who can protect the baby when you can't. For us, we both got wiped out and needed my mom there too. It took all of us to keep him in our control. And make sure you pick helpers who are very capable of standing up to all kinds of bullying.

1b. If you can hire an LC to be there right after birth, do it! Don't rely on the hosp one.

2. In our case, there was a blanket consent form that said someting along the lines of "We consent to any procedure that the doctor deems necessary." That could include circ, vax, anything. No way we signed that. They said it was in case of emergency that we'd allow any needed treatment without having to take the time to get our consent. We said, if that happens talk to us then. We didn't sign a single form in the end.

3. Lastly, we went in with the attitude that we are in the right and don't have to defend the rightness of our decisions. It helped a lot, even if subtly. We just decided that the hosp were the ones who had to defend their position. And we left with the reputation of being the most difficult people to convince. I guess they had never been so uniformly unsuccessful at working in at least a few procedures.

Sorry for the novel, I know you didn't ask about all this. And I don't mean to scare you. Just hope you can be prepared for everything and not worry. These are the things that both worked for us, and what we wish we'd known...

Mostly good luck and congrats!

[Pandora114]

Switch to a homebirth and avoid all that bull. You aren't sick. You are pregnant, At least at home you wont have people hounding you and strangers sticking their hands up your wazoo, nor do you have to worry about your DS being "accidentaly" circd.

[Daisyuk]

OMG : is it really that bad in American hospitals?

I shall never diss our health service again. That would never happen over here, that's got to be a product of profiteering.

I'm stunned, I knew it was a profits led system and that people go on holiday to the US without medical insurance at their peril, but this is unbelievable. Thank God (and Aneurin Bevan) that we have universal healthcare, paid for by the state.

[Pandora114]

No kidding, and if a procedure isn't covered by the National Health service *be it Canadian or British* The Dr's will not do it non-chalantly. YOU have to seek the Dr's that do the procedure out. They don't seek you out. YOU have to ask to have circ done. So someone has to be pretty dead set for having it done. My God, Circ in those instances seems so..premeditated...so cold blooded...

[aira]

Ooooo! I just remembered that you can get those onesies that say in big red letters NO CIRC!

Here's an older thread: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=157873

I'll see if I can dig them up...

EDIT: Well, I can't find it. Maybe someone else knows??

[Pandora114]

You can MAKE onsies with NO CIRC on them too. Get plain white onsie, and either, some Iron on Xfers or some fabric paint/markers and follow instructions.

Hmmm I'm getting a real crafty idea.

[dynamohumm6]

Not *all* hospitals are that bad, or even awful. The hospital I went to was fantastic about letting me do what I want. Granted, I was there for 3 hours before he was born and 10 after. They asked once during labor about circ, we said no. The pediatrician that checked him out before we left asked, we said no, he said "fantastic!!".
If I had any doubts, I'd bring some onesies to dress him in that say DO NOT CIRC in big huge letters

[calngavinsmom]

Originally Posted by Pandora114

No kidding, and if a procedure isn't covered by the National Health service *be it Canadian or British* The Dr's will not do it non-chalantly. YOU have to seek the Dr's that do the procedure out. They don't seek you out. YOU have to ask to have circ done. So someone has to be pretty dead set for having it done. My God, Circ in those instances seems so..premeditated...so cold blooded...

Unfortunately no so in all of Canada. I am in Ontario, and was only in the hospital with ds2 for less than 24 hours but we were asked three times, by three different people (one ped and two nurses) if we wanted him circed.

What really ticked me off was after dh and I (at the same time) voiced our emphatic NOs to the ped she said "good". WTH!?!?! If it is so damn "good" not to, then why are you peddling it in the first place?

Anyhow, some parts of the great white north still have some progressing to do on this front.

Take care,
Tara

[Pandora114]

Well, you live near the border, so of course there'll be more solicitations for circ. If you use logic, some Americans who have to pay OOP because they don't have insurance, will come up to Canadian hospitals because of the exchange rate/cheaper prices for health care. not only do they A: jump our ques because they have the cash they b: bring the American Dream of Obstetrics and Genital care expectations with them. *No offense Americans, but y'all do have a ducked up obstetrical practice* So, a hospital that caters to Americans, will no doubt do circs.

[Frankly Speaking]

My best guess is that the higher the circumcision rate is at your hospital, the more likely an "accidental' circumcision becomes. It's called "routine infant circumcision" and there's the key. When 90% or more boys are circumcised at a particular hospital or by a particular OB they just have a tendency to do it in the routine course of events. They assume it will be done and get sloppy about checking the forms since "Everybody does it."

Of course, there's also the other side of the coin in the hospitals that will not allow infant circumcisions on their premises so there is zero chance of an accidental circumcision. Gotta love 'em!

In the years that I have been involved with this issue, I have seen several instances where a doctor circumcised a boy knowing that the parents did not want the circumcision done. In his/her arrogance, he/she decided that he/she knew better than the parents and would just go ahead and do it "for their own good." The good thing is that a law suit can be filed against the doctor and that there is good legal precedence. The bad thing is that once a circumcision is done, there is no way to ameliorate the damage and the courts generally view the foreskin as valueless so the monetary awards are relatively small.

A hospital has no legal standing to perform any procedures without consent outside emergency procedures. If they will not allow you to be with your child while all of the procedures and tests are being done, just say "No!" They will relent. It is your right to be there and observe all procedures. Stand up for your rights!



Frank

[Galatea]

We never let them take ds anywhere and they never bathed him or took him to the nursery. They can't make you do anything. I'd write no circ on all his shirts - we considered that.

[Pandora114]

I still say, screw hospital policy and give birth at home where YOUR policy is what stays and what goes, not some freeking bureaucrat's, in a suit and tie bent on covering his and his cronie's asses by inflicting their policy and interventions on you.

[shelbean91]

Originally Posted by Frankly Speaking

Of course, there's also the other side of the coin in the hospitals that will not allow infant circumcisions on their premises so there is zero chance of an accidental circumcision. Gotta love 'em!

There are hospitals that refuse to circ preemies?? I was 'undecided' in the hospital after ds1 was born (not really undecided, but hadn't talked to dh about it yet) and they asked me 3 times if we were going to do it. Once I said no, they stopped asking, but still. All of my kids were 5 weeks early (at least, depending on the dates we use). I wasn't asked for ds2, b/c I had it in my birth plan, but when I said I wasn't sure, they kept asking. I was surprised they even 'offered' since he was so early.