Am I crazy for thinking that this is wrong...

[NewYearsEve04]

Well I know I'm not crazy for thinking this but what do you guys think? I need other point of views...

I never thought I would post this on here as I don't like sharing personal information with strangers but I've been thinking about it a lot and yes my fiance and I have discussed it already...I just can't stop thinking about it like I've done something wrong.

HERE GOES....

I have a problem with my fiance and his ex talking like they are friends on the phone. I don't think it is appropriate if they talk about other things besides their daughter. I also have an issue with inviting her to things such as our baby shower and wedding. I'm not at all saying I don't want her around or pretend she does not exist but when it comes to intimate events such as a shower or wedding I don't think it's appropriate that she is there. If it were something for their daughter then hey I'm all for it!

There have been instances where I feel she has crossed the line...maybe she thought it was harmless but I felt it was rude and disrespectful. One time she called my fiance on X-Mas eve to tell him she just heard a song that reminded her of him. WHAT THE HELL? That is plain wrong! Imagine if an ex of mine (child or not) called and did that?! That's not cool! Then it seems she just calls sometimes just to chat...not about their child but just to chat. I mean why does she have to call hiim? They were not even married just had a child really young together and then it didn't work out. Is she missing something in her current marriage that she feels she needs to get it from my fiance?

I also just don't like some of the things she's done...and I know I've only heard one side of the story and maybe her side is completely different. But she cheated on my fiance...that's why they split....then she got married and cheated on her husband with a friend's husband....they got married but her track record is not squeaky clean so I feel like she may have ulterior motives with my fiance...almost like she is keeping him on a leash in case she ever needs him. Does that make sense? Like Chris Rock says a "___ in a Jar....Break in case of emergency" (FIll in the blank with either the male or female sex organ)

It's gotten to the point where I don't even want to talk to her but I do. I act civil. I'm pregnant and she has come up and touched my stomach a few times...I just wanted to scream! I don't want her to try and be my friend because we are not. I don't ever want to have a relationship like that with her. Maybe it's me? She is very nice and sweet...she offered to help with the shower and told me to call her if I ever needed to talk etc. But I just think it's all fake. Maybe it's just my distrust for women but maybe it's not. I think there are all these red flags going up and I really need to pay attention to them.

Am I crazy? = ) Maybe it's the pregnancy hormones....nooo because I felt this way before it's only intesified since being pregnant.

[L.J.]

It sounds like she does cross the line and I think it's completely okay and appropriate for her to NOT be invited to both your shower and the wedding. Those are special events for you and completely understandable to not want her to be a part of it all. Does your fiance agree that she crosses the line? If he does, I would ask why he hasn't put a stop to it.

Do you trust your fiance? Do you trust and feel comfortable with your relationship? Because it takes two to tango (so to speak) and if you trust him completely and your relationship, you would have nothing to be concerned about. A man who is in love with a woman doesn't even notice or care if another woman is throwing herself at him. He won't see it because he's in love. Nothing could ever happen unless he was a willing participant, no matter how much she throws herself at him. If you are feeling jealous, it may be bringing up insecurities you have about yourself, your current relationship or relationships in the past. This may be an opportunity for you to look at it and learn and grow from it.

As for them talking like friends, I think it's okay. I am in favor of ex's being amicable and think that it makes for a better situation for the kids. It can be difficult at times and I have been in your situation where I haven't liked how friendly my boyfriend was with his ex, but now, years later, I see what a beautiful gift it was for their children.

I'm on the opposite side now, where my ex and I were friends, but his current girlfriend has so many issues from a past relationship that she hasn't and won't have any contact with me at all. She has even gotten so extreme that my ex is not allowed to talk to me at all (we are supposed to only email) and the times when we have, I know he's lied to her, which makes it all the more difficult. My kids suffer. They don't understand why daddy used to come and play at their house but not anymore. They don't understand why I'm not allowed in daddy's house, they ask me to phone him and if she's there, I get hung up on. It's awful. I realize you're not being this extreme, but I thought I'd offer my experience so you could see another point of view.

I hope you figure out some boundaries that are more comfortable for you, your fiance and your entire family.

[NewYearsEve04]

Well to your point of him not noticing it because he is is love....is pretty much what I got from what he told me. He said he did not think about allt the things I mentioned until I mentioned them and now that I have he understands. He understands it must be difficult for me to have to deal with all the (and I know this sounds bad but...) "baggage" that came along with him. I don't have an ex in my life, a daughter/son, debt etc. but he does. I love him and trust him but it's her I don't trust.

I do understand what you are saying about this bringing up insecurities especially from past relationships...it's true I guess it has. I have not made this a big issue because I don't want to make things difficult for my step daughther but when it came to him wanting to invite her to the baby shower...I had to open my mouth. I told him if he really felt strongly about her coming she could but that I did not think it was the right time for her to meet my family. I think she should meet my family so she is comfortable with her daughter being around them and she has met certain members but not all of them. Anyway I am trying to learn and grow from what I am feeling so that I can be a better partner and soon to be mother.

I am not okay with the friend thing, I just think it's plain wrong. I think you can raise beautiful children without having a friendship with your ex. Understandable you have to be friendly but you do not need to have phone conversations or listen to her problems etc. That is what her husband is for not mine.

I would never get as extreme as your ex's current girlfriend is. I actually want to open up the communication between her and I just not in a friendship kind of way. It's a weird boundary I know but I believe it is doable.

I'm sorry that you have to deal with a person like that...seems like she has some major issues.

[MomBirthmomStepmom]

ICK! That's kinda creepy IMO. My SO talks to his ex-wife ONLY about things concerning my step-son, and even then they don't really talk, it's more like 'hey can I take him to such and such place?' 'sure', 'okay, put him on the phone'...KWIM?

I would feel extremely uncomfortable with them being buddy-buddy... I like that they're civil in regards to my step-son, and that things are relatively open with us all. However, if it were to get into other things about any of our lives, I'd feel uncomfortable. As it is, my SO gets uncomfy when his ex even mentions things about her boyfriend's checks being garnished etc. He only wants to know things he NEEDS to know from her, and he only wants her to know things she NEEDS to know from us, end of story.

As far as coming to family events that aren't centered around your step-daughter, I'd say HELL NO. lol But that's just me. As it is, we've stopped doing birthday parties for DS where his biomom and her family come over, and have let her do her own thing for him ( he's 9, so definately old enough to understand that mom and dad have 2 seperate families now). She wouldn't help with anything, or plan, or chip in, she'd just show up, and then not do any kind of party for him at all... *shrugs*

Step-son is also at that age where anytime we mention wanting to do something with our family (the 4 of us, me, SO, step-son and my dd), he ALWAYS asks if his mom can come too (never his mom's bf or her new baby... just his mom!). So, we've gently learned how to talk to him about how mom has her own family, and we have ours, and he's very lucky to be a big part of both of our families, but that in order to grow, each family needs it's own space and privacy away from the other... Does that make sense?

I realize you're not talking about your step-child, but I keep thinking, maybe that conversation would work well with your hubby's ex? lol Kinda dumb-it down, talk gently, and try to explain (or, better yet, have your hubby explain!) that your family needs room to grow....

[roundpegmom]

I am also from the "friendly with the exes" camp, and I think it is OK for you to feel a little weirded out. I have been in the role of the "1st wife" and of the "2nd wife" and I have dealt with many different levels of friendliness and boundaries.

I agree with you, from what you say, exGF does sound like the type to keep a "back up man" around for emergencies. I guess it depends on whether or not you feel like exGF respects your relationship with your BF. I don't personally have an issue with chattiness, if me and formerSO had a trivia question we were stuck on, I would call ex and ask him. They knew each other, had peed on their trees (so to speak) everybody knew who was going home with whom, it wasn't a problem.

I used to frequent a "2nd wives" board, and they used to be horrified with how friendly ex and I were. I also did not have issues with SO and his ex spending time together, although they were never "chatty", there was too much anger there. But even with me being a very low boundary person, the exGF in your situation does leave me with a bad taste in my mouth.

Does she acknowledge the role you play in your fiance's child's life? Do you feel like she respects your upcoming marriage? Is she one of those women who are just bubbly friendly with everyone? How does your fiance respond when you discuss this with him?

If you had not talked about her history, I honestly would be less nervous, but she does not seem to respect marriage or monogamy and does seem to be the type to always look for greener pastures. Maybe the old saying would be good in this case-Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.

[NewYearsEve04]

That's how I feel. I don't want them to be "buddy buddy" just civil but what can I do....I can't force either one of them to change that. I can only hope my fiance understands and will change on his own.

You know what's weird...I believe her husbands ex, her and her husband do things together...I'm not sure how often but I know her husbands ex does not have family around here so like for holidays she'll come hang out. BUT I think that is weird because of the whole cheating thing! Anyway some people just have different morals/values.

There are just some things I will never understand.

[choli]

[QUOTE=NewYearsEve04]
I am not okay with the friend thing, I just think it's plain wrong. I think you can raise beautiful children without having a friendship with your ex. Understandable you have to be friendly but you do not need to have phone conversations or listen to her problems etc. That is what her husband is for not mine.
QUOTE]

I don't really understand this. Why do you think it's wrong to have a friendship with the other parent of your child? To me, that seems like the ideal situation. If I were the child in question, I would probably be much happier if my parents were friends, rather than if they were merely civil and interacted only about me.

Do you honestly think your husband-to-be should not have phone conversations with or listen to the problems of anyone but you?

[NewYearsEve04]

I agree roundpegmom.

I think she does not respect marriage, relationships or monogamy. That is why I am feeling the way I do. I just feel like she is trying to keep my fiance in her corner....and even if he feels he is not there...it's just the fact that she is trying. I thought about "keeping my enemies closer" but I don't want to play games...I don't want to pretend to be her friend when in fact I don't like her as a person. She is a very bubbly person and I think is probably friendly with everyone.

The thing is my step-daughter is older...she is going to be 13 this year. So I have not tried to bounce into her life as a mom more like just a friend and will let that parent role just kind of happen. I don't want to step on her mom's toes so we don't really have a "CLOSE" relationship. Her mother is okay with the relationship we have at least I have not heard anything negative from that side. I'm not sure if she respects our upcoming marriage...again I have not heard anything negative. And as for how does my fiance act when I bring it up...the first time it was a shock to him and he seemed defensive...the second time was when we talked about the shower and I really got into facts and things that had occured. He then understood where I was coming from. We will see how things progress and if they will go back to their old habits but I feel my fiance will respect my opinion and will not disrespect me like I feel he has.

[MomBirthmomStepmom]

Originally Posted by choli

Do you honestly think your husband-to-be should not have phone conversations with or listen to the problems of anyone but you?

Honestly, I think you took that a bit too far. When did she ever say anything like this?? She's talking about a woman her fiance was once in a sexual relationship with. Child or not, the contact this past partner has with her fiance is making her uncomfortable. She's not saying 'god get this woman out of my step-daughter's life!', she's saying 'I wish this woman would be a bit more respectful of the fact that her ex-partner has a partner now, and perhaps there's a new boundary line that she's crossed'...

What's so wrong about that, that you just jump on her acting as though she feels this way about ANY person her fiance comes in contact with??? Seriously.

[NewYearsEve04]

Originally Posted by choli

I don't really understand this. Why do you think it's wrong to have a friendship with the other parent of your child? To me, that seems like the ideal situation. If I were the child in question, I would probably be much happier if my parents were friends, rather than if they were merely civil and interacted only about me.

Do you honestly think your husband-to-be should not have phone conversations with or listen to the problems of anyone but you?

I did not say that he should not listen to anyone else's problems but mine I'm sorry if that is what you read. And as far as conversations go yes we (my fiance and I) both feel that having "the other sex" as a friend is wrong. So as for listening to her problems and consoling her yes I feel she should not lean on him but rather she should lean on her own husband. It just seems to me for a female to go to her ex to talk about whatever it is her day, life, or whatever that maybe she is lacking something in her current marriage and trying to get that need fulfilled somewhere else.

[choli]

Originally Posted by MomBirthmomStepmom

Honestly, I think you took that a bit too far. When did she ever say anything like this?? She's talking about a woman her fiance was once in a sexual relationship with. Child or not, the contact this past partner has with her fiance is making her uncomfortable. She's not saying 'god get this woman out of my step-daughter's life!', she's saying 'I wish this woman would be a bit more respectful of the fact that her ex-partner has a partner now, and perhaps there's a new boundary line that she's crossed'...

What's so wrong about that, that you just jump on her acting as though she feels this way about ANY person her fiance comes in contact with??? Seriously.

OP said "Understandable you have to be friendly but you do not need to have phone conversations or listen to her problems etc. That is what her husband is for not mine. "

I understood from that quote that she felt husbands should have phone conversations and listen to problems only with their wives.

[NewYearsEve04]

Originally Posted by MomBirthmomStepmom

Honestly, I think you took that a bit too far. When did she ever say anything like this?? She's talking about a woman her fiance was once in a sexual relationship with. Child or not, the contact this past partner has with her fiance is making her uncomfortable. She's not saying 'god get this woman out of my step-daughter's life!', she's saying 'I wish this woman would be a bit more respectful of the fact that her ex-partner has a partner now, and perhaps there's a new boundary line that she's crossed'...

What's so wrong about that, that you just jump on her acting as though she feels this way about ANY person her fiance comes in contact with??? Seriously.

Thank you MomBirthmomStepmom!

That is how I feel if we (my fiance and I) feel it's wrong to have a friend of the opposite sex...than child or not he should not make an exception for her. I do not want to cut her out of his or my step daughters life...she is apparently a great mother! It just seems we are going through an adjustment period where we have to figure out what works for all involved.

I'm sure before me she use to call him all the time and talk and talk and talk...and I'm sure he did not mind because he did not have anyone important in his life. Well now I'm in his life and I am his fiance so now she needs to respect my new role and not do what she use to do. I know he has to change his habits as well and I'm positive he will. I'm not at all saying I want her cut out....how could I do that...she plays a very important role in our step daughters life...that is her mother and nobody not even me can take over that role.

[NewYearsEve04]

I feel like playing that song:
R-E-S-P-E-C-T

That's all I want.

[roundpegmom]

Like I said, I have been in both roles, so let's talk about the exes motivation for a minute. You said that they have probably always been chummy, pre you. Now, speaking as a birthmom (I'll use BM from now on, not to be confused with breastmilk please) as a BM, me and ex got along swimmingly. Then when GF appeared on the scene, she did not like our arrangement, she made demands, she made it very uncomfortable for everyone. I completely welcomed her into the "family", I even had dinner with her so I could get to know the lady that would be having such an influence on my children.

I did not feel "catty" towards her, but I detected "cattiness" and honestly, it did bring out my claws a tad. She sorta gave me a power I did not intend to have. I didn't want to cause trouble, but I always knew I had a power over her. I really wanted to have this chummy coparenting feel with her, I wanted us to both cry with pride when my daughters graduated, married etc. I wanted this to be a great "step wife" arrangement. I never tried to cause issues and that relationship eventually self destructed as she tried to get my ex to detach from his kids.

My point is, don't give her any power to screw with your head. I did not have any ill will, but just knowing that I could get to her, kinda brought out my dark side : If she has bad intent, don't let on that you feel threatened, that is between you and your SO. If she does not have bad intent, don't let her rent space in your head.

Figure out what really, REALLY is bothering you. Do you and SO really have a "no opposite sex friend" policy. If so, he should keep his conversations focused on the child. Is it that she has a "racey" past? My neighbor had a "step wife" like that. It used to drive her nuts, she finally just told herself that if her DH was silly enough to want to get back on that roller coaster, no amount of worrying she did was going to stop him. How would you handle it if it was your SO's coworker, yes they have valid reasons to communicate, but what would be the boudaries.

If she does have bad intent, never let her see you sweat, don't give her that power. To me, most of the clues would be based on your SO's reaction to your fears. But I still can't tell when men are lying or being defensive, so I can't help you there :LOL

[Flor]

I think it would be ideal if dh was friendlier with his ex. I don't know that you can really be civil, short, and then actually coparent. There has to be a little bit of care and kindness in order to not want to kill the other parent! When I was first married, 5 years ago, things were really tense between the "sides" and it was horrible for everyone. As things have gotten more settled, everyone is friendlier. I would like to have the ex over for birthdays (she says she isn't comfortable around her ex in laws) and we've taken dss to swim lessons, I visited with my ds when her baby was born. Not friends, but dss likes that. At first I thought she called dh too often (like when her cat died???) but now that we've been married for so long, really, I could care less. You did mention that he ex isnt' too consernced about your relationship with her daughter (rare!) so maybe she's so over your finance that it is no big deal , he's just like any other guy.

I've read a lot about blending families and from what I can tell, the kids hate the back and forth. The xmas at moms and xmas at dads. My goal is to eventually (and we aren't there yet) have some events/holidays together (maybe dss birthday, and a minor day like Halloween or something) for dss's sake.

You don't have to be friends, I guess, but any bit of kindness, caring, concern between the parties would make things smoother for the kids. We've gotten kinder with dh's ex. For example, what incentive do we have to be flexible with visitation if we don't feel empathy, kindness, etc. for the other?

However, when I first got married, I was not ready for that kind of relationship. Now I am.

[NewYearsEve04]

Bottom Line

I want to have a good healthy relationship with my fiance's ex for my step daugher but not a "friendship" meaning I don't want to talk to her about the same things I would my best friends.

Me and my honey don't call it a policy but we both agree that men and women cannot just "be friends", I wanted to disagree at first because my entire life I had lots of male friends and that's what they were to me just friends. (Don't get me wrong I did not cut them loose just because of him, I said "had" because once I moved to LA (pre fiance) I lost them. Men aren't big on keeping in touch.) Anyway I respect him and would not want him to doubt me in anyway so I don't make male friends at work. I have coworkers that I communicate with at work but no one on one lunches etc. I am okay with this because I have no desire to have male friends. I get what I need from my fiance and if I need to talk I can talk to family/friends.

Anyway I do appreciate everyone's outlook on my situation. I guess I just need to make sure that my fiance understands my concerns and he can decide how he wants to handle certain situations. I don't want to try and make anything difficult for our step daughter but I also don't want to feel disrespected by his ex.

[NewYearsEve04]

Originally Posted by Flor

I've read a lot about blending families and from what I can tell, the kids hate the back and forth. The xmas at moms and xmas at dads. My goal is to eventually (and we aren't there yet) have some events/holidays together (maybe dss birthday, and a minor day like Halloween or something) for dss's sake.

I came from a blended family sort of. First my parents divorced when I was a baby, then my mom passed when I was 7, my dad raised us alone even before she passed and we still always did the back and forth thing with holidays etc. I did not have a problem with it at all and my dad very rarely stood around for the holidays with the other family. He would only be there if he came to pick us up and we were not done yet. They love him so there was no hostility there but even still he did not stick around when we had family functions with the other family. I never questioned it, that's all I knew so I accepted it. Sure it was a bit hectic but that was my life and I accepted it. I enjoyed having holidays with both families...we would usually do Xmas eve with one and Xmas with the other. Same with Thanksgiving we would do it one day with one and another with the other and since my cousins come from blended families this worked for us all. The only time I was sad was recently when I actually had to choose which place to go because with adding a fiance into the mix there was no time to hit all of the families at once. It's okay though that's just how life in a blended family is and I don't feel I suffered in any way. I feel lucky for having so many families. For having such a diverse background and so many places to go if I ever needed anyone. Just wanted to let you know from my point of view that not all children of blended families hate it.

[Flor]

Thats true, and it might also be different for kids who remember an intact family vs. those that don't.

I just wanted to say, that maybe this isn't your situation, but the things you have said were things I would have said when I was first married. I really wanted everything to be separate and for us to have our own family separate from the ex but now that I look back I realize I was jealous of the ex. I knew that dh loved only me, but I was still jealous that she has his first love, had his first baby, etc. I just wanted her to go away.

I think it is very important for the parents to be friendly, the friendlier the better for the sake of the kids. My dh had to do what was right for his child even if it made me uncomfortable, and it did.

I think being a stepmom comes with lots of discomforts. Like, finding old wedding pictures, being called by the ex's name, some teacher/dr. saying, "oh, you aren't the REAL mom," etc. Having to hear your dh chat with his ex. . . I think it just comes with the territory, but it does get easier.

[NewYearsEve04]

Thanks Flor. I will admit that there is some sense of jealousy there but it's hard to distinguish between that and when she really is crossing the line.

It's tough but I'm sure I will get through it....many other women before me did. =)

[Flor]

I know what you mean. Plus, if she's having some jealousy issues with you that is causing her to cross the line . . .yuck. The best thing that happend for us was the ex getting a new boyfriend and a baby. things feel easier all around.