need your assistance to help a friend

[Brina]

My friend's son is 15 and intact. He has asked her, repeatedly in fact, to get circ'd. She knows it is a fitting in thing and that he doesn't really know anything about what it involves.

I am looking for some role models for him to bolster his self esteem in this area. He is African-American. Thus far the only African American celebrity I have found on the non-circ'd lists is Will Smith. Anybody know of any others - either athletes or singers?

I am also putting together a list of the benefits to him or keeping his foreskin.

Thanks,

[Gitti]

Intact Celebrities:

http://www.circumstitions.com/Famous5.html

Virtually all men from Europe are intact. Arnold Schwarzenegger is for sure and I bet his kids are.

If this boy ever wants to go to another country, it would be best for him to keep his foreskin because he would immediately be singled out as an American. At times it can be good but at times it could be the worst thing for him.

I have two intact grandson, one is almost 8 y. the other is 16 mo. The 8 y. old is very proud to be intact although all his friends are circed as far as he knows.

His dad's gf is planning on getting pregnent soon and he told her she better not get the baby circed if it's a boy.

He is just as vocal about vaccines. He made up this very cute drawing about the damages vaccines do to the body. He knows all about the mercury, aluminum, formaldehye, etc. in vaccines...

How is that for an 8 y. old?

[Quirky]

Check out http://research.cirp.org - all about what the foreskin is for, complete with pix.

Simply put, why would he want to cut off half his erogenous tissue to fit in? If he's not already sexually active he will be soon - he should know that that is the best, most sensitive part of his penis!

[feebeeglee]

He might just not know any - at least 35% of African-American men are intact, according to the Laumann study.

[DahliaRW]

Has your friend made him read the "research" on circ? Maybe some articles on the complications he could have if circ'd at his age would be enough (i.e. some men cannot have erections, etc.)

GL!

[njeb]

Here's a link to a wonderful article written for intact teens:
http://circumstitions.com/Teen.html. I hope this helps. It's soooo hard to be different when you're a teenager, even if the difference is a good thing.
My own 18 year old intact son is sleeping right now. When he wakes up, I'll ask him if he has any insight into the matter.
Hugs to you for being such a good friend!

[njeb]

Well, he's awake now, and here is what he says, one intact teen to another:
"Do you really want to have a piece of your dick cut off? Also, you're in high school just a short time in your life. You aren't going to have to deal with these idiots who are teasing you your whole life. But, if you get circumcised, you WILL have to deal with the circumcision the rest of your life. Later in life, no one will care if you're circumcised or not."
Wow! I love my son! He calls it "the teen-to-teen help program." :LOL

[bell bottom blues]

Can your friend have an honest talk with her son, or maybe have the boy's father do it, and just basically let him know how much better his penis feels because he's intact, and that it won't feel nearly as good if he has part of it cut off.

The dad could make it a pity thing - feel sorry for those boys that were harmed. They'll never feel as good as he does, and girls won't like having sex with them as much, etc.

If he can understand that he's better, maybe that will make him feel good about his "difference", and understand that it's an advantage.

[mamakay]

Originally Posted by Brina

My friend's son is 15 and intact. He has asked her, repeatedly in fact, to get circ'd. She knows it is a fitting in thing and that he doesn't really know anything about what it involves.

I am looking for some role models for him to bolster his self esteem in this area. He is African-American. Thus far the only African American celebrity I have found on the non-circ'd lists is Will Smith. Anybody know of any others - either athletes or singers?

I am also putting together a list of the benefits to him or keeping his foreskin.

Thanks,

Ok...So, what are the reasons *he* gives for wanting to do this?

[feebeeglee]

I emailed a friend of mine who is African-American and was circumcised without his consent at age 12 - he's now 19 or 20 (sorry RBM, can't remember!)

Here's what he had to say:

Try telling him that circumcision started as a way of marking slaves. If that dosn't work, try telling him that he has a working penis....

Tell him that if he wants to change himself he can wait until he turns 18.

[Quirky]

Except that I've never read that circing started as a way of marking slaves. Anyone have a source? I know there are tribes in Africa that circ as a ritual for passage to manhood and that some of those tribal people would have brought those traditions to the US with them when they were enslaved.

I have also read that female circ in this country was "inspired" by white slaveowners observing circed female slaves. (Observing, raping, abusing...)

But I have not read that slaveowners circed slaves to mark them as property. Doesn't mean it didn't happen, but I have not come across that anywhere in reading on the history of ritual and non-ritual circ.

[feebeeglee]

Started to mark slaves - not just Black slaves, ifykwim. The Greeks did it to their slaves, for instance, and there are several vases I have seen that show a big, naked (and bare-glans) slave doing heavy manual labor. The Egyptians did it as well.

[Quirky]

OK, so slavery in general, not the African American slave experience in the US? Got it. Good to know.

Although I do know that upper-class Egyptians circed themselves, too.

Darn it, I wish I owned a copy of Gollaher's book! I checked it out from the library and don't own one.

[feebeeglee]

Also - there are so many tribes and cultures in Africa today who circumcise and so many who do not I bet that some of them cut their slaves as a mark.

I want that book too! I can't find any other Egyptian reference offhand to it other than the

c !r c l! st

:Puke

site, which I won't link to here. But I know it's legit as an Egyptian slave mark. Maybe they did the circ differently with different ceremonies for the slave vs the upper class. Veering off topic here LOL.

[Frankly Speaking]

I have never seen a report of American slave owners circumcising their slaves. The first report of non-ritual circumcision in American was when Philadelphia physician A.J. Sayer performed a circumcision and then went on national and international speaking tours promoting it first as a deterrent to masturbation and later adding in the hygenic and health benefits that we all know were false. This was all after the Civil War (The War of Northern Aggression for you southerners! : ) so there were no slaves in America then.

I have also seen information that would counter that Egyptians circumcised slaves. What I saw was that circumcision was for Priests and to set them apart from commoners. The Egyptian Priests were the rock stars of their day.

Oddly enough though, in The Covenant with Abraham, God commanded him to circumcise all male members of his household including "Those bought with money" which has been interpreted to mean slaves. I guess that means that both circumcision and slavery is OK by God, right?



Frank

[A&A]

[QUOTE=Quirky

Darn it, I wish I owned a copy of Gollaher's book! I checked it out from the library and don't own one.[/QUOTE]


Why don't you buy yourself a copy?! Running to look at my copy now.

[Quirky]

I think it's out of print? I know I looked for it before.