Is human nature inherently good or evil? - Page 2

[happymommy]

Well, here is my humble opinion, which i guess is my understanding of my strong christian faith:::::

Adam and Eve started it all in the garden of Eden. They were created in the likeness tof God, therefore humanity would be inherently GOOD. The devil, came along and persuaded Eve to take a bite of the forbidden fruit and she did, therefore making there be a choice for all humanity from that point on, between good and evil. Not that we are all BAD by nature, but i think that we all constantly have that temptation and choice to pick EVIL. So as for our nature, i think we know good from evil, have a longing to do good, but a temptation to do evil. Everyone has that delema in their life and it is up to each person what they do with it.
Now another aspect is all of us mommies and daddies. . . . we raise our kids with certain influences and examples that will sway their choices and how they feel about their choices in life. I think too many parents teach their kids that there is no right and wrong and they just decide what is right for them, but there really is good and bad. To me, we need to teach that there is importance in being true to yourself and doing what you think is right for you, BUT within the realm of what is GOOD.
OK, i don't think that made any sense, but i guess i got off topic anyway. Sorry!!

[barbara]

Very well put darlindeliasmom


Namaste,
b.

[darlindeliasmom]

thanks, b. Nice to hear after you walk around composing the message all day...

[madison]

Is human nature inherently good or evil?

I would have to say neither. It is what it is. We just "are" and interpretations as to good and evil depend on socialization, organized religion, who has/wants power over people, etc.

I used to believe human nature was inherently sinful/evil, as a Christian. Then one day I asked myself if I *really* believed in Adam & Eve as physical, real 1st creation people as it says in Genesis. I had to answer honestly "no"- based on my gut feeling, based on archeological record, based on geological & palentological records. So therefore, my theology came apart. I had to follow it back logically. If Adam & Eve didn't exist, therefore there was no fall from grace (or a state of grace to fall from, for that matter). Therefore, there was no separation from God called Sin (vs "sin" = actions). Therefore, there was no need for God to rescue humankind from it's Sinful state by Jesus' human sacrifice. Therefore, the designation "sinners" or "inherently evil & needing redemption" was not an appropriate label, since no such thing existed.

So, I ceased to believe in an inherently sinful/evil humanity.

Now I think that we just exist and I judge "evil" and "good" by their fruits - is life promoted or extinguished by this action/thought/intent? Does it bring life to someone/self or does it bring destruction?

[marymom]

ahhhhh
we would be such very good world leaders I think...
great discussion, Madison babe, Im with you- and whoever else said its alllll about opinion (and Id add whatever worldly influences on that opinion are)
Things like bombing an intolerant nation- killing for a greater good- how does one measure that good vs bad-
they can try...to do the right thing...thats all anyone can do- and its fun to analyze (has anyone heard the line, analysis paralysis?) but when its all said and done
IT WILL BE WHAT IT WILL BE!
just my big O

[simonee]

I don't know.

I often feel that individuals are what most would consider "good" (which is often just a combo of Christian values such as generosity), while large groups are often what is usually called "bad".

At the same time, I think capitalist values are replacing Christian ones. So assertiveness if good nowadays, while modesty can be frowned upon. And that that goes for individuals vs. groups, too. So an individual's "good" (assertiveness) is a company's "bad" (aggression).

The whole dualist idea is so limited. I think if I decide to view something as good, it is. And because I have already decided that most individuals are good, they are. While most companies aren't. Which means that my opinions goes before forming it, in a way. Very quantum

So I don't know. Obviously. Forgive the rambling, it's beddytime.

[DaryLLL]

So no one can relate to my Judaic/Hindu idea of "lower" impulses (contol, power, sexuality, selfishenss) being harnessed with "higher" impulses ( generosity, love, connection with humanity and god), for harmony and effectiveness in the earthly plane?

madison-- even if Adam and Eve didn't exist, even if Moses didn't part the Red Sea, even if Jesus never actually walked around as a flesh and blood person, the stories( IMO) have symbolic and philosophical/moral value. As do any myths to fairy tales. You don't find this?

I find there is a way to get deeper emotional and useful meaning from the bible (or any other holy book) without having to say, amen! I believe in it all as literal truth.

Jos Campbell talks about The Fall, not as God's punishment for man's sin, being passed down then to all his ancestors. But instead, as humanity getting wisdom (knowledge of good and evil) from the tree, thereby becoming more godlike. Some interpretations (gnostic) see the serpent as a benefactor. It was is a sacred animal in many cultures. We are separated from God in that, we are now less animal like or even child like (less innocent) and have to then find our way back to God (or become more godlike), in our search for the other tree, the Tree of Life. "Life" being life in the spirit, not just being involved in the material world of the lower impulses of appetite and lust for things. It is almost a Buddhist idea. Of course, the tree of life is the one Jesus was crucified upon.

[madison]

Darryl,

Good question.

Even if all those things never happened, yes I can see a common thread - of a need of human beings to be wanted & needed, a need to be part of something greater than themselves, a desire to be "more" than the sum of our parts.

[yoga]

I don't think human nature is good or bad, it just is. By calling it "nature" we imply that we have no real control over it, that it is natural for us to act how we act. And, it is.

As far as people, I think some ppl are "bad" and that's how they are supposed to be, for whatever reason. Mainly, it's because they choose to be that way, just like for "good" ppl. Life is really all abt choices. I like to think that I am not a "bad" person b/c I do not put blatant destruction out into the Universe. But, I know I'm not as "good" as I could be, either. I think it has a lot to do w/how in touch you are w/your essence. If you are not connected to your own self (spirit, soul, whatever you call it), then you aren't gonna be much good to anyone. And, since I believe this "life" is all abt experience and spiritual growth, I believe that ppl who act "badly" do so for a grander reason than I understand at the present.

[mamabeard]

i look at it this way. when i feel poorly about myself (or anything, which i realize boils down to feeling sorry for myself or whatever), i start seeing things in other people that i don't like. i think on a metaphysical level, this is me attracting other negativity to me because i am feeling that way. so, i see the "bad"ness in others if i'm feeling down...

and like you, chaka, this is when i see that i have a choice. realizing i am experiencing negativity, i look into myself to see why i am feeling this way. it is usually about insecurity, for me..

this happened yesterday. i had less than 3 hours of sleep and was on an errand run, missing and catching lots of busses, walking over 2 miles altogether in -15 degree whether... i stopped at a coffee shop while my son was sleeping in his stroller to get warm and have a coffee. there were about 5 other people there. this one older man was sitting about 10 ft. away from me.. for the first 15 minutes or so something about him was bugging me. he had a hard, yuckly expression on his face.. i wanted to be feeling good, but this particular man was bothering me.. it took me a few minutes to realize my feeling this way about him, was really my feeling crappy about myself. so i cleared out all the bad feelings in my heart, and when i looked at him again, he looked content and kind.

i experience this all the time. when my son is being whiney and demanding, if i open my heart and change my attitude, he becomes the sweet and caring child i feel he really is. when my boyfriend is being a jerk, if i stop defending myself and listen for his sadness/fear and shift myself into loving and hearing him, he becomes the wonderful, compassionate man he wants to be.

i think i owe it to everyone and the universe to see it as inherently good. because i think it wants to be.