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What a difference a little research makes!  

post #1 of 13
Thread Starter 
It's funny how quickly your mindset changes once you start educating yourself. I recently went from being ambivalent about circumcision to feeling very, very strongly against it. One of my posts in my quest for information involved my DH's concern that his grandfather had infections and problems while in the nursing home and "had to" be circumcised as an old man. Since then (not that long ago!) I've seen a few more posts with that very same question.

I just got off the phone with my older sister, who has three kids. I like her a lot and we have a lot in common, but she is VERY mainstream. Her first two were adopted and when she was pregnant with her last she said she really disliked being pregnant and was so happy when the baby turned at the last minute and she "had to" have a c-section. Needless to say, she is not into AP or NFL at all.

I told her that DH and I had decided not to circumcise the baby we're expecting next month, and she immediately blurted out, "Oh, no! I know someone who worked in a nursing home and she said..." I'm sure you can imagine the rest.

When I told her that most of the world's men aren't circ'ed she said, "Some people don't shave under their arms -- I mean there's no reason for cutting our hair or nails except to make things easier to deal with."

I pretty much just told her I'd done a lot of research and this was our decision, and she backed off. In fact she admitted that when her son was circ'ed she could hear him screaming down the hall. (But then she said in a light tone, "But he healed right up just fine!")

Just thought you all would appreciate this.

P.S. When I get a chance I do intend to state our reasons for not circ'ing on my blog, which she reads, so hopefully she'll understand our position at least a little. I just didn't feel like getting into it right then.
post #2 of 13
Oh, yeah! I totally agree.
Before joining this board, I was vaguely anti-circ. After all, I'm one of the few moms who didn't get her sons circ'ed in the 70's and 80's. (And they are now reaping the benefits as adult men). Yet I still felt it was the parents' choice; it didn't really bother me when someone said they'd gotten their newborn boys circ'ed.
Reading the links in the sticky changed all that. I am now ferociously anti-circ. I didn't know before how circumcision changes men's sexual functioning and alters the very act of intercourse itself. Several generations of Americans have been robbed of normal sexual function. That has got to change!
post #3 of 13
Can't wait to read your blog!

ETA: (when you add the stuff on why you didn't circ)

ETA2: okay, I just read it, and I LOVE it - especially your essay on your stepdaughter
post #4 of 13
I didn't have internet access when I was pregnant. We decided not to circ around my 7th or 8th month of pregnancy, but I didn't start to feel strongly about it until I was in labor and this OB was pressuring me to circ, saying "Really, he won't remember it later"...and I was thinking, "So what? It's not remembering torture that makes it torture...it's the moments of it in real time..you can torture someone and kill them and they'll never get a chance to remember it...doesn't make the torture part OK because 'they'll never remember it' ....WTF?"
But this one night, about a year later, it really "clicked" for me. I'd been reading on the net about the "medical benifits" lie, and then I watched a circ video...
And ever since then I've been on a mission to stop this awful practice. Now intactivism is a fundamental part of who I am as an individual on this earth.
post #5 of 13
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamakay
this OB was pressuring me to circ, saying "Really, he won't remember it later"...and I was thinking, "So what? It's not remembering torture that makes it torture...it's the moments of it in real time..you can torture someone and kill them and they'll never get a chance to remember it...doesn't make the torture part OK because 'they'll never remember it' ....WTF?"
My sister called me back to apologize, saying she totally respects any decision I might make and knows that I research everything carefully. Then she reiterated that she had heard her son screaming all the way down the hall when he was circ'ed (she knew it was him because he was the only baby on the floor) and that she got a really sick feeling, but by then it was all done.

But she did add that "he doesn't remember it." I don't get that argument either. I mean, I don't remember a LOT of my childhood and none of my baby- or toddlerhood -- but it's what happened to me then that formed me as the person I am today! I don't want one of my son's formative "memories" (whether he consciously remembers it or not) to be of pain and fear and entrapment.
post #6 of 13
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bell bottom blues
Can't wait to read your blog!

ETA: (when you add the stuff on why you didn't circ)

ETA2: okay, I just read it, and I LOVE it - especially your essay on your stepdaughter
Thank you!
post #7 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by New Mama
But she did add that "he doesn't remember it." I don't get that argument either. I mean, I don't remember a LOT of my childhood and none of my baby- or toddlerhood -- but it's what happened to me then that formed me as the person I am today! I don't want one of my son's formative "memories" (whether he consciously remembers it or not) to be of pain and fear and entrapment.
My mil played this card when I told her dh was upset about being circed. She was like it was so long ago why does it even matter. Well jeez it's not like it ever grew back or anything. Of any of the excuses to circ this one probably bothers me more than any other. It's okay to cause pain to your child as long as they don't remember it?
post #8 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by errejasu
Of any of the excuses to circ this one probably bothers me more than any other. It's okay to cause pain to your child as long as they don't remember it?
In that token, it's ok to abuse a child as long as they are young enough to not remember it...

Oh wait, circ is abuse in my book!

It's a dumb argument/excuse! On the same lines, back in the day they would do surgery on newborns/young babies without anasthesia, just using medication to immobilize them. They thought they couldn't feel pain. That's been disproved, so why do they still try to claim it with circ?
post #9 of 13
Quote:
It's funny how quickly your mindset changes once you start educating yourself. I recently went from being ambivalent about circumcision to feeling very, very strongly against it.
This is me too!!

When I was preg. with my 3rd we didn't find out the gender before birth. Dh and I briefly talked about circ but never made a decision. I was kinda like, "Here are some things I've read against it...but you make the decision." Then when we found out this baby IS a boy it was time to really make a decision! Once I really got reading and researching...I'm TOTALLY against it now!!

I started gently educating my dh. I pretty much had him on my side (LOL) but what TOTALLY reeled him in was the fact that our Dr's office does NOT use pain meds when they do it (we'd have to take ds in b/c we're having a homebirth).
post #10 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by New Mama
But she did add that "he doesn't remember it." I don't get that argument either.
Yah. . .I mean, how exactly is that supposed to help men like myself, now deal with our current, adult awareness of what was done to us and what we have lost forever and how we feel about it?

So we don't actually consciously remember what it was like then. Fine. How exactly is this supposed to help us NOW?

The answer, of course, is that "He doesn't/won't remember it," is not really about the child's feelings about being mutilated.

It's about the child holding the parents accountable for it.

The point of "He won't remember it," isn't that he'll be spared the memory of experiencing the excruciating pain and horror and betrayal involved.

The point of "He won't remember it," is that the parents will be spared from being held accountable for it by him.

What they're really saying when they say "He won't remember it," is "We'll get away with it."
post #11 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acksiom

What they're really saying when they say "He won't remember it," is "We'll get away with it."

Exactly.

Acksiom! We've missed you!!
post #12 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by errejasu
My mil played this card when I told her dh was upset about being circed. She was like it was so long ago why does it even matter. Well jeez it's not like it ever grew back or anything. Of any of the excuses to circ this one probably bothers me more than any other. It's okay to cause pain to your child as long as they don't remember it?
I got in big trouble at a mainstream board when someone said "it's done fast, it heals in a few days, and he won't remember the pain anyway", and i answered with "so it's ok for me to put cigarettes out on my newborn, since it's over fast, it'll heal in a few days and he won't remember it anyway?"

Seems like two pretty similar situations to me.
post #13 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by dynamohumm6
I got in big trouble at a mainstream board when someone said "it's done fast, it heals in a few days, and he won't remember the pain anyway", and i answered with "so it's ok for me to put cigarettes out on my newborn, since it's over fast, it'll heal in a few days and he won't remember it anyway?"

Seems like two pretty similar situations to me.
That is an excellent analogy.

The whole "he won't remember it" justification is so infuriating, I guess, because there's, what seems to me to be , this obvious logic that is escaping the person who says it.
It just makes you want to scream. Really, that's the case to some extent with all pro-circ arguments, but this one is regarding the pain babies feel..acknowledging it and dismissing it in one breath.
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