Where does anger fit in to GD?

[kaydee]

This has been on my mind for a while.

I sometimes see posts in this forum that imply either that 1) if you get angry with your child it means you are doing something wrong or 2) anger is flat-out incompatible with GD. I have trouble with these ideas.

I believe in GD. For me, GD means being as patient as kind as I can be with my child (and with other people, in general). It means trying to understand my child’s perspective and respecting it (if not always doing exactly what he wants). It means having developmentally appropriate expectations of my child. It means not hitting. It means not threatening to hit.

But it doesn’t, to me, mean never getting angry or never showing anger or never saying “I’m angry at you” or “I feel angry when you do/say [fill in the blank].”

I think it’s okay to get angry (and that an occasional voice raised in anger or frustration is not a cataclysm, although it’s certainly not ideal, and *is* something to apologize for). I think it is natural to sometimes get angry at people you love and, therefore, that saying you are angry (and, possibly, sounding angry when you say it), explaining what you are angry about, working through the problem and the feelings, and showing that anger passes are normal, and even healthy things to model for a child.

I think that parents have more of a responsibility to control their emotional reactions than do children. But I think parents also have the responsibility to show their children that a wide range of emotions are normal, and to model for them healthy ways to manage those emotions, and how people who love each other can get angry at each other and get over being angry.

So...how does anger fit in to your views of GD?

[sphinx]

:

[meemee]

anger is natural. and expressing is good too. i agree with u. but how u express it is the clincher. how u deal with it depends on the age or the developmental level of the child. should u yell? of course not. DO u yell. yes more often than i want to. but i have got much better. indtead of yelling a better idea would be to give the parent a time out to calm down. most of the anger is out of sheer frustration - either with the upteem repeatition or parent not getting their own space - a little breather. so anything that comes out in anger is never going to be good. whether it is to a one year old, two year old or a 16 year old.

i do believe children should not see anger at toddler age when they are dealing with tantrums themselves. but once they are cognitively ready to understand reason then u can show some anger - not by yelling, but by a raised voice statement. 'oh the pizza is cold AGAIN. gosh it makes me soooo angry. i wish i could throw this pizza against the wall, but then it would mean no dinner for us. so please give me a moment. let me take some deep breaths and then we can heat the pizza in the oven and eat it.' something on those lines. where the child knows he is not the cause of ur anger, u display u have 'violent' thoughts but dont follow thru because ultimately u all become the looser.

i think it is also important sometimes not to say anything. i am sure ur child is aware something is wrong. but then u get over it and ur child learns that ok mommy. mommy was 'upset' but now she is ok.

honestly how u deal with anger depends a lot on ur child's personality. if they are v. sensitive then remember even a loud statement - not yelling can be hurtful to their ears and their senses. so obviously if u have an overtly sensitive child u wouldnt express ur anger in front of him. instead u would try a time out for urselve or go for a walk or take a nice long shower or listen to some music to get u out of that mood.

personally i dont think children really need to be talked about emotions as much as people are doing now. they find out about it themselves. it seems so unnatural to me. sometimes expressing ur thougth is one thing. but not always or even sometimes. older children will actually come and ask u if something is wrong. and then u can discuss what is going on. or u could say u need a few minutes to feel better.

that is why i personally have decided to destress myself. things are not going to change. i have to go thru what i have to. i try and keep my chin up. because i dont want to be frustrated. because its good to let go of the negativism out of my life.

one thing i learnt from being so alone in bringing up my v. spirited child with no help - was how angry i would get. how much more often it would happen. which was not usually me. i dont get so angry normally. it was that realisation that made me back off. learn to work on my anger. so as much as i agree with u i think one should really focus on oneself to see how angry u get and how often.

for instance at 34 months i might get angry once or twice a month, but when my dd was a year old it was once a day or more. i consider frustration the same as anger.

[UnschoolnMa]

Anger is an emotion that comes with being human, and even though it isn't as pleasant as love (generally speaking) it is equally valid in my opinion. I think trying to eliminate all anger from life or parenting would be futile and frustrating to say the least. Pretending that we aren't ever mad wouldn't be good for the kids either, who will most likely pick up on that we really are angry... and worse if we aren't admitting to anger/angry feelings in ourselves we aren't modeling anger handling skills and speech to the kids, and that's important I think.

Parenting is a relationship with another person(s), and there will no doubt be angry times. The thing is what we do when we are angry, and afterward.

[sunnmama]

For me, one of the most important things about GD is modeling appropriate behavior. And a big part of that is modeling how to deal with/express negative emotions (such as anger). So, imo, a major part of GD is showing the kids *how* to be angry and express anger without attacking other people, kwim? Show them (thru our good example, in addition to discussing with them) how to appropriately deal with anger and resolve conflict.

So, imo, it is very important for parents to be honest about anger--but to be responsible about how they express it.

I am far from perfect on this front, however. My parents never taught me how to express anger appropriately; everything was stuffed until the point of eruption (so either no anger, or explosive anger ). So I often feel that I will teach dd how to express anger appropriately just as soon as I figure it out (ok, I'm not *that* bad....but I'm not as good as I want to be....)

[UUMom]

I think anger is a natural reaction to many things that affect us. From our kids not responding, to our friends or partners not caring.

I think feeling anger is very human.


I think how we react to those who anger us is the big question.

If an adult pisses us off, and we react with anger/yelling/whatever, that adult, more than likely, can handle us. A little child, new to the world and looking to the parent for comfort, guidance and reassurance, cannot.

I think we need to be careful wrt who/how/why we express our anger.

We can't control other people, or the needs of small children, but we can control our reactions. Adults have a greater ability to react maturely and compassionatly to stress. Toddlers and children do not have that capacity. they are at the mercy of the adults who care for them.

It's tough to be a parent, no doubt. But adults have to accept that children are at a greater disadvantage, all around. As adults, we have more emotional resources to react appropriately. Children to not have the ability of experience, not do they have the resources to reach out to other people to help them cope/manage. They can't log on. They can't call a hot line. They can't call a friend.

Children are at our mercy. No matter our emotional space.

They need us to keep our wits about us-- they have nothing *but* us.

That doesn't mean never getting upset.

But it does mean understanding how vulnerable little children are.

[sunnmama]

Unschooln--we crossposted....ITA!

[flyingspaghettimama]

We use the word "frustrated" a lot because that more accurately describes what we feel in response to conflict - i.e. frustrated with communication or challenged by the situation. I don't need to say, "I'm mad at you because you're selfish/mean/inconsiderate, " and put her into that bad-guy role. I think the "I feel" statements work pretty well no matter the emotion, particularly if not blaming the child but ok to point out the frustrating behavior. We did a lot of modelling deep breaths to calm down, and for her to breathe deeply during a tantrum (she still does it now, on her own).

I just found this link again, and I used it a lot when my daughter was younger toddler. It helped me to regain some perspective and my wits. (Cross posted with another thread)

http://www.shambhalasun.com/revolvin...care_anger.htm

[pamelamama]

I was just coming to post something like this. I am angry at my five year old. He gets upset and frustrated and reacts by throwing things at me. He's a bad shot, and can't really hit me too well. I dont think he's trying to actually hit me. He is just showing he's angry by throwing things. He also pretends he's going to hurt me, like squeezing my arm or shoving his body against me. He isn't ever really hurting me. He's playing at hurting me. This infuriates me. My instinctive response is to shove him away from me (which I don't do) or pick up whatever he threw and throw it right back at him (also dont do that :LOL).

I am seething with anger about these pretend attacks. I don't let people hit me. I don't let people hurt me. Why would I let my son do that? Yes, he's hungry/tired/frustrated/developmentally only five years old. But these whiny outbursts of stomping foot and 'hmph'ing and deliberately finding objects to throw at me is just not ok!

My thought process is this: I don't want to demonstrate losing my temper and yelling, which is what I sometimes do. I want to demonstrate that we can deal with our anger/frustration in other ways than hitting/throwing things. So I tell him: Sam, when you throw things at me, that is NOT OK! I dont let people hurt me. It's not ok, and I am very angry that you did that. He's all "I'm sorry mommy, hug hug!" and Im like BALONEY!!! You can't just tantrum/apologize/repeat. He's acting like a jerk because he's wanting dinner right NOW or wanting to play xyz game right NOW or whatever. But the dinner is coming and the game has to wait until after we pick up a few other things, or whatever. Meltdown.

I dont want to say, Im angry because you're being a selfish jerk! I want to show him my unconditional love, but I also don't want to demonstrate that in relationships, one person can treat the other like crap and apologize and all is well.

Hm. Let me know if you want me to start my own thread on this, but I Think it really pertains to the subject at hand.

[flyingspaghettimama]

Pamelamama, not to sound trite or weird or something - but I'll bet that some Playful Parenting games might work through this issue? Do you know what I mean, the book by Cohen? Because he's old enough really probably to talk and play and work it through - the "playing at hurting" thing is what caught my eye and made me think of it - Cohen describes an age at which children start wondering "what happens if I hurt my mom? what are the boundaries? what will she do each time?" and issues around bodies, control, and mom's attention. Not that it's bad - but it is something that might be worked through better with a game, etc. He even talks about wrestling/physical play in there, as a way children and parent can work through those issues, which sorta freaked me out at first but made more sense when I thought about it. And he talks about how boys express themselves. I just thought it was fascinating.

My DD gives me surprise "raspberries" all the time lately, which I'm not sure I like either, but sounds a bit better than hitting or throwing things. Good luck.

[kaydee]

Originally Posted by pamelamama

Hm. Let me know if you want me to start my own thread on this, but I Think it really pertains to the subject at hand.

No--stay here!

It is really interesting to hear how other parents feel about this (and what triggers them and what the ideal response(s) they strive for are).

I am finding that having things thrown at me and being hit are really really REALLY testing my patience, too. And I don't feel bad about letting my son know (by telling him, firmly, that I am upset, by saying "we don't hit/hitting hurts/toys aren't for throwing, etc" and by separating myself from him) that it makes me really angry when he does that to me.

But sometimes it is so frustrating that I also stomp my feet or bang on (solid, unbreakable) things and yell and have on a couple of occasions burst into tears in frustration (I have tried to hide that last one from him, as I remember being quite scared when I saw my mom cry when I was little). And these seem like normal, human reactions to me--yet I think some people really beat themselves up over similar sorts of behavior, so I start to wonder.

I definitely assess how my anger affects my son; he registers it, but doesn't seem scared or disturbed by it. Maybe how our children react to our reactions is also key to determining if there is a problem?

[Magella]

I think it's okay for my kids to see me angry. Anger is a normal human emotion. My kids feel angry often, and I think it helps them know that anger is normal if they know that other people feel that way also. Also, I think it's easier for them to learn appropriate ways of managing and expressing anger if they see us managing and expressing our anger appropriately. If we try to never look or sound angry, if we never say we're angry, then I think it would be harder for them to both accept their own angry feelings and to learn to express their anger appropriately.

As a parent you really can only do your best to express your anger in healthy ways most of the time. Anger itself is normal most of the time. I do think it's possible to find ways of coping that allow me to feel angry less often. I think feeling angry very often can be a sign that something isn't right. But anger itself is not incompatible with GD. It's how you handle that anger.

[j924]

I am so glad you started this thread. I have been thinking a lot about thus lately. I am a very angry person. I am usually fairly open with my anger to the offending person--- until it comes to my kids. With them I tend to get tight lipped and quiet so as not to unleash the full fury. That however does very little to help them see how to effectively deal with their anger. So I've been kind of talking out my angry moments. "I'm really angry that the door was left open and the cat escaped." Then I 'll list some possible things I can do such as get the cat lock the door stomp around until I feel happier and then enlist their help in coming up with a good example. This has worked well but to be honest not only do I feel like a whacko but I also feel it is somewhat contrived. Like if I was feeling "real" anger I wouldn't be making lists. Does that make any sense? So I'm somewhat less angry, but I feel both fake and kind of freaky.

Pamelamama My highly explosive 6 yo has taken to jumping on my back and straddling my legs(like a gorilla) when angry. At first it drove me nuts, but I've been seeing how this series of movements and physical closeness to me has helped curb some of her violence. We have a deal now that she must tell me it's coming and it seems almost theraputic.

[AngelBee]

: This has been an issue wth dd. She pushes bottons and I get angry. Then I am unsure what to really do.

[nataliekat]

Originally Posted by pamelamama

So I tell him: Sam, when you throw things at me, that is NOT OK! I dont let people hurt me. It's not ok, and I am very angry that you did that. He's all "I'm sorry mommy, hug hug!" and Im like BALONEY!!! You can't just tantrum/apologize/repeat. He's acting like a jerk because he's wanting dinner right NOW or wanting to play xyz game right NOW or whatever. But the dinner is coming and the game has to wait until after we pick up a few other things, or whatever. Meltdown.

It's good to let him know that hitting isn't tolerated, but what he probably also needs after that is help going through what HE'S feeling. He's young and immature and doesn't know how to express his own feelings properly. That's why he's throwing and play hurting.

j92f - Modeling processing anger and problem-solving may feel weird because you're not used to it. But IMO, it's just what kids needs to see. They know they made you angry, but then see that you're willing to work with them on a solution, rather than just blowing up or shutting down. Maybe that will give them ideas about problem solving on their own in the future.

meemee - same thing. It may feel weird to always be talking about how we're feeling. But I really think it's the only way children will gain the emotional intelligence they need to be able to accurately identify what they're feeling. My parents were lousy at this and I didn't figure out what I was really feeling and what I really wanted until years later. Of course, after I had made many regrettable mistakes relationship-wise that I truly feel could have been avoided if I had been helped to understand what I was really feeling and what I really wanted.

Re: Anger, I have such a hard time letting go of my own agenda sometimes, particularly when it comes to bedtime and I've been looking forward all day to a break so I could take a breath and watch a movie or something. When she's really digging her heels in, it's hard for me to just let go of what I wanted for my evening, and give her all the control. That's going to be a major personality change for me if I ever figure out how to do it.

[mamapup]

I'm not sure how helpful this will be, but I am willing to share my own experience.

Andrew is 2.5 years old and understandably gets frustrated or angry often. I try to help him before he melts down, but am not always successful. When he breaks down to the point of hitting or throwing things at me or others, I make body contact (touching his shoulder, arm, sometimes holding his arms if he's really going for it), get down to his level, and tell him something like:

"I can see from your hitting/throwing that you are very frustrated/angry. I know you wanted x. It is okay to be unhappy about not getting x, but it is never okay to hit/throw in your anger. I will be sitting on the couch if you would like to talk about it, or just want to be held."

Then I go sit on the couch (or where ever is really close by, but not hovering over him), and give him a chance to work it out on his own. Sometimes he can't, and comes to me to be held. I always smile and hold him, and say no more about it.

So far that is working okay for us.

[craZmama]

This *is* an interesting thread, and I'm glad I popped in and saw it.

Personally, I think anger and frustration *should* be different emotions, however, we tend to let frustration lead to anger which causes major problems. If we took care of the frustration BEFORE it turns to anger, I don't think we'd be dealing with so much anger from ourselves or our children.

Not that I'm the expert. I just tend to be the calm, collected peacemaker all the time. My dh is a very, very angry person, and my children all seem to express a lot of that same emotion....usually starting with frustration. I thought I was doing so well when my first said, "I'm frustrated" at age 2! Now she's one of the most dramatic of the kids.

My son is also very angry...follows his dad's lead and has seen a lot of anger coming from him. His dad didn't used to have a clue as to how to deal with his anger, and at this point is recognizing what pushes those buttons and how to avoid exploding. I think that a big thing is realizing when you're getting frustrated and saying something about it! If I'm in the kitchen making dinner, and I have four kids, three dogs, and a crazed cat in there with me I know there is going to be trouble! Kick the animals out and put the kids to work helping me, and I'm fine! OR if I know that I'm in a hurry, I just kick everyone out....before chaos breaks out and feelings get hurt.

When it's the kids expressing their frustration, I'm trying to teach them to talk it through. If they're having a problem with an object...like a block robot that just won't stay together....they need to keep working on it. "Practice makes perfect" my 5 yo dd says lately. She learned to hula hoop in just one day and said that all day long!

Now, what makes me angry? What makes the kids angry? Well, when I see one of my kids hurt someone physically or emotionally, I get angry. It's a feeling of complete dismay and outrage at bad behavior (from kids or adults!). Total lack of respect makes me angry. Outright disobedience makes me angry. And I think it's totally valid! AND I think the perpetrator should see the anger! The trick is to show the anger without hurting anyone emotionally or physically.

I often think of Ozzy singing Mama I'm Comin Home...where he says "the fire in your eyes". I feel that fire when I'm angry...my eyes are flashin! I *try* not to say too much because it might get out of control. But I do say that what was done is wrong. I also talk about love and how we're to treat each other. I think I use the word "wrong" a lot when someone hurts someone else or directly disobeys me. I want the kids to know the difference between right and wrong, afterall!

Now, when the kids get angry, it's usually a direct result of frustration or hurt. Usually hurt feelings. Occasionally we have a temper tantrum over not getting what they want, and I just have to stand my ground and let them yell and bang the floor in their room. It hasn't resulted in anyone getting the idea that they can act like that whenever they want, and it is almost always resolved after a few minutes and is rewarded with some affection and a talk (both me and my child discussing it, not me preaching at them!).

When it's a problem between two kids, I get both sides of the story and try to reach a compromise. I'm hoping that they will learn to just talk it out on their own as they get older. Is it ok to hide sometimes and test them? :P

[kaydee]

Originally Posted by craZmama

Personally, I think anger and frustration *should* be different emotions, however, we tend to let frustration lead to anger which causes major problems. If we took care of the frustration BEFORE it turns to anger, I don't think we'd be dealing with so much anger from ourselves or our children.

Interesting point. I think there is a difference, too, but can't really define it. Maybe it is just a matter of degree? What do you think the difference is, and what makes one "worse" than the other?

[canadiyank]

Just wanted to mention that I started saying that I was frustrated and dd would say, "Mommy, are you frustrated?" when I had my "angry face" on. No kid, I'm MAD. :LOL I think frustrated is definitely a good thing to be able to convey, just don't use it as a euphenism for mad like I did.

But yeah, being able to model how you get OUT of being mad is key for helping them, too...I mean, it's almost impossible to not get mad. Isn't it? Heh. But I think it's key to say, "Yes, I'm mad, but I'm going to go take a break right now in the other room while I calm down." Or "I'm still upset. I forgive you but I have very strong emotions right now, so I'm going to take some deep breaths while we rock for a bit."

[nancy926]

Originally Posted by pamelamama

So I tell him: Sam, when you throw things at me, that is NOT OK! I dont let people hurt me. It's not ok, and I am very angry that you did that. He's all "I'm sorry mommy, hug hug!" and Im like BALONEY!!! You can't just tantrum/apologize/repeat.

Okay...so what can he do in that situation, then? He lost control, you called him on it, but you won't let him apologize? That puts him in an impossible situation. What if you lost control and screamed horrible things at a friend, who called you on it but refused to accept your apology?

I realize you're talking about over the long term, it's not okay to consistently hit and then apologize and think that will solve everything. But he's still little - he's 5, right? So he's still learning. Can you offer ways for him to express his anger/frustration other than hitting? So maybe next time he can try another way?

I don't have a 5-year-old (yet!) so maybe I am just clueless about this issue though.