Where does anger fit in to GD? - Page 2

[lilyka]

Ok haven't read all the responses. But I htink anger, especially when concerning GD comes from unmet expectations. it seems like in the world of GD people don't know what their expectations of their children are, they don't tell thier kids what thier expectations are, they have no plans for achieving these expectations, and/or they are lying about thier expectations to themelves and their children and others. ("Oh no i don't expect obedience" and then complain when thier child doesn't do what they say when they say it. why won't they listen/cooperate/do as I say - anything but the word obey of course or here is another favorite "my child is strong willed and says NO and I love that she is so secure and knows she has the right to say no" and then in the next breath "my child will never do what i ask her" well no, she is strong willed and knows her no has power. either accept it or change it.)

I also think anger comes from not wanting to do the work. don't tell your child 100 times to do something. tell them once and then if they heard you help them follow through or drop it. they have chosen not to cooperate. if they didn't hear you stop what you are doing, get right there where they are going to see and hear you and you know they are listening and repeat step one. My guess is you are not angry the first time you tell your child to do something. it is the 5th or 6th that you start getting hot under the collar. Your child is probably getting just as ticked that you are not listening to thier no. also constant supervision, proactive coaching, and 100% consistancy will reduce the number of things there are to make you loose your patience. havign an attitude that you are here to teach and everytime you redirect, correct or proactively teach you are one step closer to mastery and understanding of skills. but all of that is very hard work.

[mistymama]

Anger is a natural emotion, and I think it's all about how you handle it.

I think GD comes pretty easily to me (and I have a VERY spirited, SID child!) because I'm naturally a very patient person and it's takes a whole lot to make me stressed or angry.

That said, on occasion I do feel mad or frustrated, and I try to be honest with my son. "Mommy is feeling very mad right now, so I'm going to walk outside and be alone for a minute"

Where I think anger gets in the way of GD is when it's handled wrong, when people "loose it" and start yelling, or even worse, hitting. IMO, there is nothing wrong with feeling the emotion (we all have it!), just in how you handle it, kwim?

[yaM yaM]

I didn't see this mentioned, but if it's redundant. . . sorry.



NVC

Non Violent Communication
Marshall Rosenberg

www.cnvc.org

I'm short on time, right now, but wanted to recommend this excellent resource. This way of communicating has totally changed my relationships and my life.

[canadiyank]

Originally Posted by nancy926

Okay...so what can he do in that situation, then? He lost control, you called him on it, but you won't let him apologize?

Hmm....I read that very differently...I saw her as feeling upset not wanting to go through the same cycle again and again. You've never still felt upset even when someone apologized? I know I have, especially when it's the same actions, kwim? I didn't read that as her not "letting" him apologize but more sharing her frustration about the *whole* situation.

But he's still little - he's 5, right? So he's still learning. Can you offer ways for him to express his anger/frustration other than hitting? So maybe next time he can try another way?

I think that's the prob...these other ways are not helping him right now and it's *not* ok for him to be hurting others in order to express himself.

Sorry if I sound a little defensive, you're just kind of saying she doesn't have a right to be angry (b/c her boy is too young, she didn't respond correctly, etc.)...I just don't think it's helpful to people to invalidate their feelings...feelings are neutral, and she is trying to find ways to improve the situation. This thread is about anger...most of us get angry and we are trying to address what triggers us and the way we react.

At least that's how I see this thread - that we're discussing GD and our anger. IMO, they do co-exist, even if we don't WANT anger to be our reaction...I guess IMO I'd like to discuss more about ways we can address our anger instead of saying we're not allowed to be angry. I think that's what the OP was saying, that somehow just b/c we GD we're not supposed to have that particular feeling....

[craZmama]

Originally Posted by kaydee

Interesting point. I think there is a difference, too, but can't really define it. Maybe it is just a matter of degree? What do you think the difference is, and what makes one "worse" than the other?

I don't think one is worse than the other. They are emotions, and like everything it's how we handle it that make it right or wrong.

As to the difference...frustration is "a deep chronic sense or state of insecurity and dissatisfaction arising from unresolved problems or unfulfilled needs" from Miriam-Webster's Medical Dictionary or "a feeling of annoyance at being hindered or criticized" from Princeton's Wordnet.

Anger is "A strong feeling of displeasure or hostility" according to dictionary.com. I think that if you can separate the hostility from the displeasure, you can be angry and feel it without hurting anyone including yourself. Dictionary.com goes on to explain varying degrees of anger, some of which would seem to be worse than the other, especially if directed toward a child. I can understand a feeling of rage when someone hurts your child, but having rage TOWARD your child seems like way too much.

This paragraph is interesting:

Synonyms: anger, rage, fury, ire, wrath, resentment, indignation
These nouns denote varying degrees of marked displeasure. Anger, the most general, is strong displeasure: vented my anger by denouncing the supporters of the idea. Rage and fury imply intense, explosive, often destructive emotion: smashed the glass in a fit of rage; directed his fury at the murderer. Ire is a term for anger most frequently encountered in literature: “The best way to escape His ire/Is, not to seem too happy” (Robert Browning). Wrath applies especially to anger that seeks vengeance or punishment: saw the flood as a sign of the wrath of God. Resentment refers to indignant smoldering anger generated by a sense of grievance: deep resentment that led to a strike. Indignation is righteous anger at something wrongful, unjust, or evil: “public indignation about takeovers causing people to lose their jobs” (Allan Sloan).
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition

[chicagomom]

Originally Posted by lilyka

I htink anger, especially when concerning GD comes from unmet expectations. it seems like in the world of GD people don't know what their expectations of their children are, they don't tell thier kids what thier expectations are, they have no plans for achieving these expectations, and/or they are lying about thier expectations to themelves and their children and others.

I don't think this is specific to GD at all, and to me this sounds a lot like 'GD parents are just too permissive', with which I disagree.

I have seen the same problem in parents who use punitive discipline, esp in the form of expecting unrealistic things (potty training, sleep training, expecting toy-sharing before kids are able to do these things), but also in the form of those unexpressed expectations that kids don't know about until someone is yelling at them (or worse). One of the most consistent things I have heard from people who were beaten or spanked as children is that they had no control over what would trigger a beating/spanking - expectations would change on a whim or be uncommunicated and there was simply no way for the child to know what the expectations were. I think parents *in general* frequently don't think about expectations and communicate them to their children, and often expect unrealistic things.

I think GD parents actually think about and communicate expectations more than non-GD parents. GD is hard, and most GD parents I know work, work, work on these things.

[maya44]

Originally Posted by lilyka

Ok haven't read all the responses. But I htink anger, especially when concerning GD comes from unmet expectations. it seems like in the world of GD people don't know what their expectations of their children are, they don't tell thier kids what thier expectations are, they have no plans for achieving these expectations, and/or they are lying about thier expectations to themelves and their children and others. ("Oh no i don't expect obedience" and then complain when thier child doesn't do what they say when they say it. why won't they listen/cooperate/do as I say - anything but the word obey of course or here is another favorite "my child is strong willed and says NO and I love that she is so secure and knows she has the right to say no" and then in the next breath "my child will never do what i ask her" well no, she is strong willed and knows her no has power. either accept it or change it.)

I also think anger comes from not wanting to do the work. don't tell your child 100 times to do something. tell them once and then if they heard you help them follow through or drop it. they have chosen not to cooperate. if they didn't hear you stop what you are doing, get right there where they are going to see and hear you and you know they are listening and repeat step one. My guess is you are not angry the first time you tell your child to do something. it is the 5th or 6th that you start getting hot under the collar. Your child is probably getting just as ticked that you are not listening to thier no. also constant supervision, proactive coaching, and 100% consistancy will reduce the number of things there are to make you loose your patience. havign an attitude that you are here to teach and everytime you redirect, correct or proactively teach you are one step closer to mastery and understanding of skills. but all of that is very hard work.

I mostly agree with all of this.

I don't think though that its neccessarilly that someone does not "want hard work" its more that they don't realize that some of these actions make such a difference.

One of my friends kept telling me that her two y.o. would not get into the carseat. She would ask him to do so seven eight times and get increasingly frustrated and angry. I told her that she should just gently pick him up and put him in. "Oh THAT would never work, he'd have a fit." is what she said.

I said "try it, if he does have a fit you can make another plan." Well guess what she called and told me, he didn't even blink when she lifted him up after asking him once and them saying "Honey, I will help you get in the car " and then lifting him up.

Or my neighbor, I told her to try a stand and wait mehtod with her kids. It's where you just kind of wait and watch after you have asked your child to do something. She too said it would not work. But i urged her to try it and guess what it worked.

Now things don't always work, but sometimes people are so afraid of faliure, they don't even try.

[Greensleeves]

Originally Posted by UUMom

It's tough to be a parent, no doubt. But adults have to accept that children are at a greater disadvantage, all around. As adults, we have more emotional resources to react appropriately. Children to not have the ability of experience, not do they have the resources to reach out to other people to help them cope/manage. They can't log on. They can't call a hot line. They can't call a friend.

Children are at our mercy. No matter our emotional space.

They need us to keep our wits about us-- they have nothing *but* us.

That doesn't mean never getting upset.

But it does mean understanding how vulnerable little children are.

UUMom,
This almost made me cry. I really needed to hear this today. It would be great to put that in a sticky, your whole post can help us see things from their perspective. Thank you.

[sparklemom]

It's tough to be a parent, no doubt. But adults have to accept that children are at a greater disadvantage, all around. As adults, we have more emotional resources to react appropriately. Children to not have the ability of experience, not do they have the resources to reach out to other people to help them cope/manage. They can't log on. They can't call a hot line. They can't call a friend.

Perfectly written and so so true. Every parent must remember this. It's fundamental.

[j924]

I feel myself coming back to this thread over and over. I have learned so much here. I found a great website today. I haven't read all of the info, but it has some great resources for both kids and parents. There is a short video about squeezing your anger out. By the time we finished it we were all laughing and anger free! It is http://members.aol.com/AngriesOut/index.htm
Hope it helps.

[lilyka]

Originally Posted by chicagomom

I don't think this is specific to GD at all, and to me this sounds a lot like 'GD parents are just too permissive', with which I disagree.
)

No I don't think it is GD specific. I just think this is a major cause of anger the GD threads I see here. Where as other groups of parents have tons of other places thier anger comes from. I think we have these high ideals about what we want to be and what we want to be able to tolerate and the free open life we want to give our children (so long as they are well behaved of course) and then we don't live up to our expectations. I don't think it comes from bad motivations. I think alot of it comes from books that say if we just do xyz our children wioll be perfect and we will never have to scream or engage in power strugles or be athouritative. if we just nurse enough sling enough, play enough, reason enough, talk enough, give enough choices, etc . . . .and then we are let down when those lofty promises don'e pan out.

And I don't hink it has anything to do with being permissive. just the oppposite in fact. It is that whole "I am ok with this behavior, this is ok with me because the GD books tell me it is ok with me, this is developmentally appropriate, it will pass soon enough and I can wait for that to happen natrually" when in fact you are not ok with that behavior, the bahavior is not ok with you, other kids his age don't act this way or are capable of acting beter, and you have absolutely no desire (or need) to wait until i passes natrually. BUt at the same time parents don't want to be bossy, athouritarian and get into power struggles. But then on the inside you still want very well behaved children. Either truely accept it and truely let yourself be OK with it or decide it is not OK and decie what you are going to do about it. BUt don't sit around trying to stifle your anger and frustration until you blow becaue you are ascribing to a set of beliefs about what is and is not ok with parents and children that you don't in your heart believe. Because you have ben told this is what is acceptable behavior. this is what is gentle. Lat me tell you I would rather see a parent being strict and athouritarian and being true with themself and thier children rather thn lashing out in some of the scary displays some GD/TCS friends when thier chidlren weren't making the choices they wished they woudl with the attitudes they wished they would. I may have just made that even more complicated. my point is if you get angry alot you need to change something. Because your child is getting one messege about what is ok and you have another wether you admit it to yourself or not. and you might not be saying "this is ok" with words but inconsistancy and an unwilingness to take on a battle says otherwise to a child.

**all "you"s in this post are general and not specific yous **

maya - granted not everyone doesn't want to do the work but whenever I suggest keping yrou child at arms reach and making your whole day about guiding them and teachign them and helping them behave. whenever i suggest 100% consistancy. anything like that. poeple pop in with "when would I find time with for that." well I don't know what exactly the fil thier days doing but being a stay at home mom for me it was a mater of deciding to put down everything that I was serving me with and really focus on them and parenting them. But it was hard work. it is hard work. I don't have a lot of time for me while they are awake. BUt at the same time they are no longer competing for my attention with the things that i was persuing (I take time for me when they are in bed or other people are caring for them) I am able to give them all my attention and really focus on little problems before they become big problems and my yelling and frustration level directly coorilate to how focused I am on them and how consistant and proactive I am being. and some days I get lazy and selfish and want to sit around and read and play on the computer and tell them to go play. those are the days I get angry and yell, those are teh days when my attitude tells me they are in the way rather than that they are my way. I don't know. I don't always want to put the effort in. it is so much work. but when I am doing the work I don't get angry because it is all just part of th work.