how do You get them to clean up???

[seacat]

my dd is 4 and i realized i've been too lenient about the cleaning - i.e. her cleaning up after herself. At the same time i've noticed she has been ignoring me when i try to talk to her - a hot button issue for me already. So i've tried to get her to clean - i give her warnings while she's getting all her stuff out during the day - "now remember, whatever you get out you have to put up, right" "i know. i will". Ok. Then warnings, "in a few minutes it will be time for us to clean up". When the time come she ignores me and/or refuses. I don't want to bribe her or give consequences (Punished by Rewards book) and i don't want to try to force her. Lately i've lost my temper and yelled at her and i'm not ok with that at all. We used to always be able to work things out by talking but i also didn't expect so much of her regarding cleaning. I don't think it's an unreasonable amount though. i'm beginning to feel pretty bad about my parenting and lack of creative solution. any wise mom out there? help!!

[MomBirthmomStepmom]

Originally Posted by seacat

my dd is 4 and i realized i've been too lenient about the cleaning - i.e. her cleaning up after herself. At the same time i've noticed she has been ignoring me when i try to talk to her - a hot button issue for me already. So i've tried to get her to clean - i give her warnings while she's getting all her stuff out during the day - "now remember, whatever you get out you have to put up, right" "i know. i will". Ok. Then warnings, "in a few minutes it will be time for us to clean up". When the time come she ignores me and/or refuses. I don't want to bribe her or give consequences (Punished by Rewards book) and i don't want to try to force her. Lately i've lost my temper and yelled at her and i'm not ok with that at all. We used to always be able to work things out by talking but i also didn't expect so much of her regarding cleaning. I don't think it's an unreasonable amount though. i'm beginning to feel pretty bad about my parenting and lack of creative solution. any wise mom out there? help!!

I could've written that myself word for word...

Obviously, I have no advice But I'm in your boat too, so we can commiserate.

[irinam]

My DD is approaching 5, so I am right there with you

What "worked" recently was me asking her "permission" to help.

Kinda:
Me - "Mommy needs to finish dishes, but then PLEASE, can you let me help you clean your room? I love the way it looks after we are done with it!"

DD - "Hmm, OK, but just a little bit"

Me - "But I wanted to help a lot!"

DD - "It's MY room, so I get to do a lot. But you can help"

Then *she* goes to tell me where the dolls go, then where the teddy bears go.

Sometimes I chime in with "Do you think it will be a good idea to put the books like so? I am not sure what I should do here"

She LOVES being in control and well - am I guilty of "playing it"?..

[MomBirthmomStepmom]

irinam, I'll have to try that one! :

[maya44]

Well 4 is kind of young and she probably does need some help cleaning up.

As they get older though the way I do it is to make it clear that cleaining up is their job and that I expect them to do it.

I often use the stand and wait method. You tell them to do something and then you stand and wait, silently until it is done.

And if they won't. If that happens and I really want it cleaned up, I do it myself. And then say "It was your job to clean up in here. I had to do it instead. Next time I expect you to do your job."

Uh huh that is it. You won't believe how effective an unmet expectation looming over their head is, at least once they reach age 6 or so.

[flyingspaghettimama]

We:

*Cut down on the number of toys she had in her room. Rotate the toys in and out, but basically cut down on the picking up.

*We've tried asking her to put one thing away before getting a new one out, always. This works if you have lots of time to keep an eye out/remind. I didn't so much, but this is what we did for most of the year she was four. It's the same rule at her school, so it didn't seem strange to her. However, sometimes we would get "but the playmobil people HAVE TO build this train track that MUST GO to the blocks that WILL NEED all of my clothes out of my dresser." :LOL

*We've played games if I have time to help her clean - set a timer; pretend we're animals, pretend a mean witch is coming to tease us if we don't have the room clean, whatever she wants, as long as she's helping equally. I won't clean it for her (anymore, but I did up until four), but I can often help her for a period of time.

*Put on "kid music" for cleaning and singing - makes it go a lot quicker!

*We've set aside whole mornings for picking up (by age 5, by herself). Usually it works best if a friend is coming over, and I have to vacuum, so she really needs to pick it up. I explain that I didn't make the mess, but I do need to vacuum the house, so she does need to clean it before the friend comes over. We've cancelled playdates if she's refused to clean it, because there was literally no place to play, it was such a disaster. I think this just happened once, honestly.

*Model keeping my own room clean, it's not always easy.

Now, we try to have playdates often (like, a couple of times a week) and it seems to stay cleaner, and the pickup time isn't so long. But my daughter's a little older than yours.

[quidditchmom]

I keep a big laundry basket in the living room and all the toys that are brought down during the week are stuck in it until we can go through and put them where they're supposed to be.

During the day I ask them if they think that they could clean up the living room in 10 minutes. They usually tell me yes, they could clean it in 5. So I set the timer for 5 minutes and I oversee, since helping would be cheating, or so I've been informed. So I sit and watch and call out an occassional "I see a block over there!" They always beat the timer.

Most of the time they'll do this and think it's fun. When they don't it's usually no big deal, we just won't move on to the next thing, like going outside, until it's done. I just say "the living room needs to be picked up before we go out. Let me know when you're ready". There was once though when they didn't want to and it had to be done (company coming). I simply didn't have the time to sort out the toys, blankets, pillows, kitchen stuff and everything else so I just took a trash bag and threw everything in there. They weren't happy that they had to wait a couple of days before I had a chance to sort it out and put it away, and it hasn't happened again, although I didn't intend it to be a punishment.

Diana

[MaWhit]

I don't want to bribe her or give consequences

You don't want to give consequences? IMO, everything in life has a consequence, and I know all of my suggestions will , but I'll toss them out anyway.

Here's how I do it when at my best. (My house has been on the market since March, so I've had lots of practice now.) Often I say ssomething like, "After we clean up, it'll be time for ______." And we don't ____ until everything is cleaned up. We'll set a timer for 3-5 minutes and all of us race the clock, doing exaggerated high-speed clean up, really hamming it up. When we're done, I'll often say something like, "Wow, you guys! Look how much we got done! Together we can really accomplish a LOT, really FAST, huh?". I don't express so much enthusiam every time, but unfailingly, either during or after our clean up, someone will say, "We're a good team, aren't we Ma?" My kids love feeling like an important part of the family.

An alternative for my not-at-my-best days....Once when dd was being particularly uncooperative about cleaning up a large mess she'd made single-handedly, and when I wasn't in top form either, I told her that what she didn't put away, I would, but that since I didn't feel good and was in a hurry, that I'd just bag it all up and put it in the garage until I had time to deal with it. She took me up on it and I did so. At least it kept me from yelling.

[EnviroBecca]

It might help to make specific requests instead of just saying "clean up". Maybe she feels overwhelmed by the job or doesn't understand exactly what you mean. You could say, "Put all the blocks into this bag." and then, "Put the crayons into their box." or you could use the observing approach: "I see blocks and crayons all over the table. We won't be able to eat our dinner until those things are put away."

Make sure you say "thank you" or "Oh, what a nice clean room!" after the times when she does clean up.

Personally, I'm not a big fan of warning kids that whatever they get out will have to be put away the moment they stop playing w/it. I am the type who can spend a long time getting things set up just right and then play w/that setup for a few days. Being warned that I'll have to put it away as soon as I stop using it makes me do one of two things: not get it out at all and feel upset that I can't do what I want to do, or frantically continue playing until I am dazed by hunger and have wet my pants. (I phrase all this in present tense because I feel just the same about it now as I did when I was 4.) Luckily, my parents said, "It seems you keep wetting your pants while playing; what can we do about that?" and I explained that I dreaded coming out of the bathroom and hearing, "You're not playing w/this anymore, so it's time to put it away," and they stopped saying that. Instead, my elaborate villages and such stayed in place until they were genuinely in someone's way. I did sometimes get warnings like, "We're having company tomorrow night, so if you build a village in the living room you'll have to put it away before then. Maybe you would rather build it in your bedroom." Our family had the same attitude toward my projects as my parents': We might eat in the kitchen for a few days because my mom was using the dining room table to prepare a LLL bulk mailing, or my dad might take apart a bicycle and leave the pieces strewn around the garage because he couldn't finish fixing it in one evening.

But everybody has different limits, and if you're the type who can't go to sleep until your house is all tidy, you have to stick up for that. If the chaos of "I started playing w/dolls, but now I'm playing checkers, but I'm going to go back to the dolls after dinner" makes you insane, then that's a good enough reason to enforce pick-it-up-now rules.

[QueenMommy]

It's taken us awhile, but what really helps is that they get one toy out at a time. Now that may mean DD (5) gets out her doll and all of her doll clothes and the stroller and DS(3) gets out his train tracks and 15 million trains, but's that is okay. When DD decides she wants to get blocks out instead, then she is told to please pick up all her doll things first. Usually with her, I don't even have to say anything now, she just puts it away. I would love it if they had a playroom, but they don't. In that case, I wouldn't care so much, be we have lots of company.

Sometimes they will play for hours with some things (DS with his trains for example, or DD will draw.) If we have something planned for that day I just have to say "Okay, Mom needs help before we go ____" and they clean up.

Like I said, it took awhile to get to this point. What I did was sit down with them and we talked about what Mommy does around the house and what they could do to help. They came up with picking up themselves!

Of course, DD2 (10 months) is getting into *everything* right now, but they will even help me clean up what she gets into.

I do agree with pp that when there is a big mess it helps to break it down into tasks, such as pick up all the blocks. Now let's pick up all the books. Ect.

[lilyka]

First at f our it woul dbe a work in progress and I woul dexpect to have to help. here are somethings though that have helped us.

1. make sure they only have as many toys as they can handle. if the mess in our houe gets out of control I start weeding out toys. this i suppose is a consequence but it seems very natrual to me. if I can't control the mess in the kitchen I get rid of some of my toys

2. don't expect them to go it alone. It helps my children if I say "ok great, now pick up that shirt . . .good now do this . . . "

3. we don't get anything out before we put the last thing aay. follow through with this requires constant supervision but it builds good habits.

[Evan&Anna's_Mom]

Just the direction "Clean your room" (or the family room or whatever) is probably too much for the average 4 YO. Also expecting her to do it alone, especially if she isn't a "play by herself" type, might be expecting too much as well.

Unlike some of the previous posters, I don't worry much about toys and mess during the course of the day. Frankly, its not worth the stress level and I don't see any need for the family room (where the kids play) to be spotless all the time. In fact, it would probably freak me out if it was! But at the end of the day, we have a family "5 minute pick up time". I set a timer and all four of us (2 kids, 2 parents) try to get the room picked up in that time. Even 2 YO DD is good about pitching in because we are specific about directions we give the kids ("OK, now put all the books in the basket") if they aren't sure which way to turn and because its a family thing. They don't play much in the their rooms, but we do get books all over the place frequently. If it gets too difficult to walk across the floor, then I'll do roughly the same thing with each kid. They usually like this because its a moment of one-on-one attention. So far, neither child has ever balked at helping, though sometimes I have to prod DH a bit.

[quidditchmom]

I suppose that I should add I totally agree that kids should be allowed to keep out what they're doing. When we do pick up times (with the exception of times like the 4th when we were having to make room for 30 people!) it's pick up all toys that you are not currently playing with. Puzzles and long games are also an exception.

I also don't limit how many toys they can get out. Although I would love for them to sit there and play with one toy at a time (no more tripping on toys!), but I've realized that I have to choose between creativity and a clean living room, with my kids anyways.

The only thing that we do put a limit on is books. They are allowed to only get out 3 books at a time and they HAVE to be put away when they're done with them. There is nothing that makes me crazier than seeing books get stepped on and ruined :

Diana

[mommyspice]

I'm having such a hard time with this as well. I have a 5yr old, 7 yr, old and 15yr old who don't know how to pick up after themselves. The 15yr old is the worst. I ask nicely and she gets all in huff and runs off...

[mamaduck]

This has not been too much of an issue for us. I've involved them in cleaning up from the time they could grasp a toy in their fingers. I held them and had them pitch a toy in the basket now and then, telling them all along what "we" were doing. As they grew older, it was only natural for them to clean up along side me to whatever extent they were able. At 4 I still help. I don't ever tell them, "Clean up your toys." I usually say, "Lets get this picked up " or "Time to clean up now. And they pitch in along side me. Its not open for disscussion -- its simply what we do. If one day they do a little less than usual, then I chalk it off to a lazy kind of day. We all have those sometimes!

I agree that sometimes cleaning up can be completely overwhelming, and I do hear that from them when they've done a big craft project or mixed up the peices from 4 different board games. Heh. In these cases, I break down the tasks into simple steps.

My oldest tends to have a messy desk in the family room and a messy desk in his bedroom. He doesn't like it, but he is never sure where/how to put things. A successful tactic has been for me to ask him to "Deal with 5 things." Throwing away or putting away 5 things is not such a hard thing, and it makes a real dent. Sometimes he'll keep going after 5, but if not, then I ask him to do 5 more things a few hours later.

Another motivator is the fact that we have pets. Toys that are left out are fair game for the dog's chewing needs. And the cats will scatter things and sometimes carry away little peices. This is not an imposed consequence -- not something I can really control at all. But the kids know that its a risk, and don't generally want to take it.

[Petranis]

Yes its tricky as 4 is still very young. With my older 2 who are 11 and 8 I expect them to tidy up after themselves and keep their bedrooms in a reasonable state or occasionally pocket money will be docked. With my 2 and a half year old I am mellow about cleaning up and if he wants lots of things out at once that is fine. I know he will only be young for a short while. However with jigsaws and games ie.lotto and snap I do like those tidied up after using them. Its a question of balance for me as you dont really want a small child developing a neurosis about tidiness.
I hope you find a solution which works for you.

[QueenMommy]

I should add...

ATM we live in an extremely small house and have a 10 month old who puts *everything* into her mouth...

[Lucky]

One thing that I think "help" dc (ages 1, 4, &6) pick up in our house is that all of their items sit neatly on shelves at their level.

If something has many pieces, it has it's own child-sized bin, tray, or basket. The bins/tray/baskets make it easy for dc to take something off of the shelf to do on their own. And, it's just as easy for dc to put it all back in the bin/tray/basket and carry back to the shelf. Dc seem to enjoy the entire process of taking things out and putting them away.

I only put out what fits on the shelves and tables around the house, (nice and neat, not cluttered.) Everything else is stored away, where I can easily access it, to be rotated back onto the shelves later.

[seacat]

Wow, great info! Thank you all so much for your replies and any others would be great also. I love to see what everyone else is doing. A few more thoughts based on what i read from you all.

*we live in a very small house and this makes the need for cleaning bigger, i think. i'm not really a clean freak by any stretch. I only feel the need to pick up the house before we leave to go somewhere and before bedtime. other than that i'm totally open to the messiness of play.

My dd likes to bring out a huge basket of fabric and make beds and forts all over the living room. that's typical for her, although she has an endless array of ways to play and many choices for toys. I don't mind it but when she's done - and she is done when she's done (ie - she's not the play with it for all day, or several days type - yet!) - so, when she's done and we're about to leave or go to bed - i want it put away.

I think i may have said that i expect her to do it by herself - which is not really true. i've always helped her until the last week when i was beside myself. some of what's exasperating is the attitude. like i'd say, "hey let's clean up. i'll do this and what do you want to clean?" and she'd say, "nothing. you can just do it all by yourself - i'm going to play." That kind of thing. that made me a little reactionary. But you guys have given me lots of new ideas to implement.

I've tried to get her into what my sister and i used to do (we had tons of chores as kids). We called it "fasties" We'd put on ABBA, or Fleetwood Mac or Blondie (loud) and we'd clean as fast as we could so we could get done and play and i've tried to turn my dd on to this method. she loves hearing the stories about me and her Tia (her aunt) but so far this has not translated into something she's interested in.

Also, i believe in natural consequences, but not punishment (or consequences as punishment), bribes etc. Not that i never bribe - i do at times, when i'm hard up, but generally much more interested in finding healthier ways to parent.

I am planning to build more shelves in her room to make it better organized and therefore, easier to clean.

anyway, thanks again. you guys are great!!!