Routine and affect on discipline.

[quaz]

Couldn't think of a good title for this.

I have a 2 1/2 year old and 16m old. I'm trying to get some sort of routine together. I think at a basic measure, establishing a better routine is one means of 'gentle discipline' b/c it helps to bypass some of the breakdowns during the day that would otherwise occur. ( this is just a long winded way of explaining why I posted this on this board as opposed to the toddler board).

My basic question... what routine do you have with your kids, and how do you think it helps with GD.

Tammy

[Evan&Anna's_Mom]

I think its always helpful for kids to know what to expect -- it provides some security in their world and thus makes them less likely to act out because of fear of the unknown. It also cuts down on the number of times you have to say or explain something because after a while "we do it this way" or "that's what comes next" gets ingrained. If nothing else, I think that regular meals, snacks, and sleep avoid some issues simply by keeping bloodsugar and energy levels more even. Kids preschool teachers all say that routine is one of the reasons that 2 teachers can run a class of 20 kids with way fewer problems than we see at home! The flip, of course, is that when you can't keep the routine then things get more difficult and changes in routine need special care!

We have a pretty set routine for work/preschool mornings (MWF) and a looser routine on "mommy days". End of the day/dinner/bath/bedtime is pretty consistant too. If nothing else, I feel like I have a handle on things and thus am probably a better mommy because I feel more confident!

[satsuma]

I always was awful on any kind of routine. I had this idea it was better to let children eat when hungry, fall asleep when sleepy. I always saw routines as something forced and traumatic, but I've been reading routine doesn't have to be that way, it can be something fun the child looks forward to.

I think the few issues we have is because of the chaos.

I'll be listening for your ideas.

[SagMom]

Originally Posted by satsuma

I had this idea it was better to let children eat when hungry, fall asleep when sleepy.

I still have this idea. Our days don't have a set routine, although we do have some weekly classes and activities that happen at a set time, and we often make plans with others.

What we do is, in the evening, we talk about the next day. We just go over what everyone needs, "I have book-club at 11:00, dd wants to go to the library, ds2 doesn't want to come, ds1 has plans to meet a friend," etc. etc. and then we figure out how to make it happen.

So, my kids know what the plan is for any given day (mostly, they make the plan!) which is important because then they know what time to be ready, what they need to bring with them, if anything, and if they should eat before we leave, or pack a lunch or whatever. Although I did more of this prep and packing when they were younger, it still helped to talk over the plans with them so they knew what to expect.

I think a lot of meltdowns happen when kids perceive an unfairness--letting them know what to expect or, better yet, letting them have a hand in the planning, is only fair.

[AngelBee]

:

[Evan&Anna's_Mom]

Originally Posted by satsuma

I always was awful on any kind of routine. I had this idea it was better to let children eat when hungry, fall asleep when sleepy. I always saw routines as something forced and traumatic, but I've been reading routine doesn't have to be that way, it can be something fun the child looks forward to.

I don't think it has to be either/or. We're not talking Ezzo here were you say "Lunch isn't until 12 and too bad if you are hungry at 11". I would never suggest that you don't feed hungry kids or help sleepy ones sleep. Or, for that matter, force a not-sleepy kid to lie in bed. I think that is why I tend to use rhythm more than routine -- because routine can sound way to structured/controlled.

That said, for days when we have to get out the door by 7:30, it helps for everyone to wake up at about the same time (the adults get an alarm, the kids wake at will be tend to be roughly the same time), and then know that its breakfast, get dressed, brush teeth, and head out the door. We still do those activities, in that order on days when we don't have a deadline, but there might be more play in between. On "mommy days" we generally go out about mid-morning and aim lunch for about noon so DS gets a nap around 1, which mirrors her preschool schedule. Snacks though are whenever they are needed and if she needs a nap earlier or isn't sleepy at 1, then we adjust accordingly.

For us, routines are most helpful in getting through the stressful "get out the door" morning and the "get home, eat, bath, bed" times of day. In the middle of the day, its easier to go with the flow.

[Patchfire]

We have a *routine* but it's definitely not a *schedule*. And, yes, there are days when I throw the routine out the window... and I usually regret it somewhere around 11 am. :LOL Our routine is more of a morning routine, and then we have a late afternoon routine, and a bedtime routine - the times in between are more loosey-goosey (some days we go to the library, some days run errands, Fridays we go swimming, etc.). The hard part (for me) is realising that the 'perfect routine' is usually only perfect for a couple of months, and then you find to find a new perfect routine. The routine far and away makes a difference in how dd acts, though.

[Piglet68]

I've been trying to get a routine going but I'm having trouble with it. I don't think any of my kid problems are related to it, but I have a growing feeling that my own issues are. There are days when I feel like all I ever do is clean and take care of the kids. When I feel like DH has it soooooo much better than me, when I resent his time to go play soccer or whatever. And I'm thinking if I had a better routine, both daily and weekly, I would see what I do have and when, and that might help me. With DH working at home and setting his own hours, every day is different right now. I'm not sure it's good for me as a mama.

[wannabeamamma]

We have a flexible routine with Sydney. She usually eats bfast, lunch, dinner and snacks around the same time daily and also naps around the same time every day. We also try to run errands, do activities etc in the morning between bfast and nap. On the days that we don't do this and we stay home etc. she gets really bored (which is okay....imagination gets the chance to work ) but I find that she tends to not be as happy of a babe. I stress FLEXIBLE schedule. I would not recommend a very strict routine...I think you would get stressed and your child would too which might cause unecessary conflict and it might be harder to GD with being frustrated. Of course I only have one...you have two very close in age...so things may be harder to balance out...I'm sure somedays you feel like ! Good luck mama!

[Marsupialmom]

When I discovered that part of our problems was lack of routine I started changing the morning routine.

It was hard at first for all of us. We got up and got fed. I discovered that we were better served by waiting a half hour for my son before eating after waking. Then we had my daughter. I discovered if she wasn't fed within a half hour of waking the rest of the day was ruined.

After the morning routine adjustments things just seem to fall into place. Sorry if I am not much help other than that.

[quaz]

Mmm. Interesting thoughts. Thanks for the responses.

Well, my current 'routine' is fairly simple.

Everyone wake up. Hopefully eat breakfast (my oldest is a big milk drinker in the morning and there are many days that is all she wants). Girls almost always watch 1 or 2 shows. (dora/blues) Everyone gets dresses/cleaned at somepoint.

Snack time somewhere between then and lunch.

Lunch.

My 16m old takes a nap sometime in the next hour. (she usually needs to go to sleep somewhere between 11 and 1). My 2 1/2 year old believes and almost always has believed that naps are tantamount to chinese water torture. I try to do something with my oldest. Read. She usually watches one Dora. (current Dora obsession in the house).

Somewhere in the afternoon is snack time.

Dinner is usually somewhere around 5-6, b/c the girls would be jumping off the walls otherwise.

Daddy's home. Girls turn into wild monkeys. Then there are things like stories, brush teeth, bath some nights, maybe another Dora (yes, they are obsessed with her). Bed time ranges from 7 - 9, based on tiredness.


So... I guess I have structure to the day, but it really just revolves around eating/napping... if I'm at home. There really is no structure to, ok we will clean for x time, and have the rest of the day to play... or story time every morning, or whatever. All that just kinda 'happens' somewhere in there, with the 'structure' auto-provided by the fact people get hungry/thirsty.

Maybe this loose structure isn't a bad thing, it just seems like if the girls knew that in the mornings mommy cleans for a set time and the girls each get to help in 'small' ways.... and then we get to do 'play' time, things would be smoother somehow. Maybe that is just an incorrect thought.

Tammy

[littleaugustbaby]

Our routine is really lax and laid back.

The only time we have any real sort of routine is in the evening.

We eat dinner, go out for a walk or to the park to play, come home, DD takes a bath, and goes to bed. Sometimes we skip the outdoor part and we have dinner and DD plays while I do dishes, then it's bath and bed. Pretty straightforward.

I think it's helped a lot with GD because I don't feel pressure to stick to a routine, and therefore, I get frustrated with DD a lot less. If we skip a part of it, it doesn't upset DD, and I don't have to worry about meals/naptime/bedtime being in a certain time window. I do have friends who go by strict schedules, and all of their kids melt down really badly if some part of their routine gets skipped. I think that if you are really strict about scheduling, it's frustrating for the parent and the child if you get thrown off schedule.

[mamaduck]

I think this is an area that depends a lot of the child. My oldest is very dependent on a sense of routine, and always has been. And when the routine is too far out of whack, he has a lot of trouble behaving simply because he *feels* out of whack. When he feels troubled, he gives us trouble.

My youngest could care less about the routine. He's much more of a eat when hungry, sleep when tired, snuggle when troubled sort of kid. When he gives us behavioral trouble, its because he has decided to be trouble! LOL.

At almost 9 yo, my oldest is able to recognize his need for routine and build it into his own life. The transition from school to summer was much easier this year than ever before because he was able to make a loose plan for his days and stick to it with only minimal support from me.

[Evan&Anna's_Mom]

Originally Posted by mamaduck

I think this is an area that depends a lot of the child.

In addition to personality of the child, and the parent, I think age plays some role in the "need" for routine as well as the needs of the overall household. If you have two little kids (before school age), don't WOH, and don't need routine for yourself, then you have lots of choices. If you have a child who has to be at school at a certain time or you have to be at work, then you have fewer choices I think, and some sort of routine becomes necessary. With an infant, then you really are into a "feed when hungry" sort of a day. So many here don't have the external pressures that require routine, but for those of us who do, it really can make the difference between a pleasent morning and a crazy one!