A daughter is a daughter for life, a son is a son til he takes a wife?

[DaisyRose]

The mourning two genders thread got me thinking about the old adage "a daughter is a daughter for life, a son is a son 'til he takes a wife."

I have two girls and will be absolutely thrilled if the next one is a girl, too. In my mind, daughters represent the future. I know if I had a son, I would have to assume that when he married, he would be closer to his wife's family, especially after they had children. It would only be natural for her to become even closer with her mother, and not me. Which is not to say we couldn't have a warm and loving relationship, just that she would likely be closer to her mom.

I think my daughters will always remain close to me, especially since we are an AP family and don't have a lot of the anger and detachment issues other families experience.

Any thoughts from moms of sons? Is this something you think about? Is this part of the reason you might mourn a daughter?

[Embee]

I didn't post on the other thread yet. My whole life I wanted ONE child and always imagined it would be a girl. DH always imagined himself with a DD. Well, when they held the babe up to us in the hospital DH and I looked at each other and I exclaimed, "Our girl has a penis!" We laughed really hard, and were immediately in love. We have never looked back and have never longed for a girl... It's surprising to me, actually. We are supremely attached, and happy the way things have turned out.

I don't believe in the old addage really. One of the things that attracted me to DH, was his love, respect and devotion to his mom, even when she drove him crazy. When DH and I married, we actually lived just down the street from her and also DH's sister and DH--family compound! MIL was my greatest champion--DH would often go to her for advice when he was feeling anxious about our newlywedishness, and she would always tell him, "Go and do something nice for your wife, and then see how you feel." My MIL and I had a stellar, loving, mother/daughter relationship and when she died I was just as devastated as DH and his sisters. I am incredibly close to DH's family and while we spend time with my family also, we tend to enjoy or time with his family more.. similar values, social beliefs, good conversation, we have a ton of fun together. With my family, while we do have fun, but its much more work just to be together and enjoy--lots of baggage. I love my mom very much, but in my adult life and since becoming a parent myself, our relationship has changed. I see things in her that really bother me, truly upset me and yet, I see that she has had a hard life as well. I have empathy, compassion and great love for her, but I don't exactly long to spend time with her as I did as a young person when she was too busy to do so. *sigh*

I think this is just another one of those things that depends upon your situation. I hope that the relationship DH and I are cultivating with DS will help DS to know that we can always been a close family, and when he marries, we look forward to growing our family again.

The best,
Em

[oceanbaby]

I agree with the PP - I think this is a "depends on the family" issue, not a gender issue.

My parents moved away from both of their families when I was young, so there was no gender attachment there. My dad and his brother took care of their mom financially until she died. We knew both sets of grandparents, but neither was significantly involved in our lives as kids.

Dh and I are close to both of our parents. We live close to all of them, and see them quite a bit. If we don't see dh's mom as much as mine it's because my mom works part-time and can come over during the week, and dh's mom works constantly (real estate agent).

And it also comes down to personality. Both are supportive of our parenting choices, but MIL is more mainstream in everything she does.

I have every intention of being close to my sons as they grow up, and can't imagine feeling closer to a girl if I had one. I like being the only girl in the house - makes me feel special . I am totally aware that my sons may move away, may marry someone I don't like, etc. But that is the case with any close family member - heck, I worry about who my little sister will end up with because like dh says, it's someone he has to sit down to Thanksgiving with every year.

But the same is equally true for daughters. If we're talking about stereotypical gender roles, then daughters would likely move away with their husband to follow his job. I know many girls who have moved away from their families, even overseas, once they met someone and got married. I know girls who are close to their moms, and girls who aren't. Same for boys.

I guess the short answer is yes, I have thought about this, but not in terms of boys vs. girls.

[mamawanabe]

In all the cases I've seen, the family is closer to the wife's family of origin, and the grown-up daughter is DEFINATLY closer to her mother than the grown-up son is to his mother. My sil did follow my brother to a city two states away, but not to a city that my parents live in. They go to her town for holidays; she keeps in regular contact with her family and so they know more about her and my brothers' lives than we do (my brother rarely calls or e-mails and when he does it is a "just checking in - I love you" kinda call; I hear from sil 20X more).

Why?

Girls are brought up to do social work (it is usually wives who send thank-you notes, wives who buy family presents, wives who keep in contact). Perhaps if we teach our sons that social work (and it is work) is important work, they will do it more when they grow up.

But then, honestly, I wouldn't be too cool if dh was super close to his mom or even as close to her as I am to my mom. It would feel weird. I guess we've got to change just that kind of bias too .

[mamalisa]

I think it's circumstances too.

I am extremely close to my dad, even closer now than when I got married. My dh on the other hand has slowly pushed his family out of his life over the last 10 years. Their actions are the reason he's left then behind, but I have to say that I had a lot to do with it. I helped him become a stronger person, to realize his parent's family was not his responsibility to finance. That made the inlaws angry . We've been together since he was 21 so the progression was made after he married. But either way, it would have happened. I think it's just easier to blame it on the wife

[lilyka]

its just the opposite in my family. Dh is stil close to his family seeing them almost daily. we see my family occaisionally. about once every year or so. I much more identify with his family. his borthers seem to split pretty evenly between families.

[mother culture]

I always get offended when I hear that "girls are easy" girls are more attached" but I think that I do worry that all of the parenting I do will be for my sons future wives benifit. It is my goal to help my sons respect women and parenthood and their mothers! I am = in love with my mother in law who had 3 boys. I am her first "daughter" but her son (my husband) is still devoted to his family and mine! I like to think that my sons will hold me close to their hearts!

[ameliabedelia]

Growing up, I was always much, much closer to my maternal grandmother than my paternal grandparents. And, we are much, much closer to my family than to my in-laws. When we first got married, we lived very close to my in-laws, yet were still closer to my family (talked to them on the phone more, confided in them more). We actually spent a year living near the same city my in-laws live in, and still actually spent more time with my family (even though we only saw them 2x/year on vacation) and talking with my family on the phone. When I got pregnant with dd2 (after having a m/c 6 weeks earlier), the only people we told were my family. We didn't tell the in-laws or any friends until 11-12 weeks or so. Now, we have moved up north to be near my family (even though it would make more "sense" to live near the in-laws since the cost of living is much lower there, we choose to live up here where it is more expensive to be near my family, and will never move back south. So, for us the old adage, defintiely holds true.

[Diane~Alena]

In my family that saying has meaning. I never realy new my dad family at all. I am very close with my mothers family. My mother has three girls and two boys the boys are distant even thought they live just a town away and her girls incuding me are very close to her. I have three girls and one boy, I have no fear that my son will go with his wifes family one day because I know he will still have to put up with me, I will give him no choice lol.

[mamawanabe]

I read a study that said that that in countries with high child/infant mortality rates, the presense of a maternal grandmother in a child's life directly correlates with a decrease in child mortality. Presence of a paternal grandmother actually correlates with an increase in mortality??

I don't know why.

[TinkerBelle]

Originally Posted by mamawanabe

I read a study that said that that in countries with high child/infant mortality rates, the presense of a maternal grandmother in a child's life directly correlates with a decrease in child mortality. Presence of a paternal grandmother actually correlates with an increase in mortality??

I don't know why.

Geez I hope not. I have all boys. LOL!

I plan to be the MIL my DILs will love. I will not insist they be up our butts all of the time for all holidays. I will consider they have family too. I will not interfere in the marriages of my children. I will be there if needed, but will not interfere with raising of my grandchildren. Even if I totally dislike any DIL I might get, I will be nice and treat her respectfully. I will also remember the world does not revolve around me or our family. I will remember that THEY are a family now, and the priority. I will raise my sons to put their wives first.

In short, I will treat my DILs better than I was treated.

[Laurel]

I have a son and I don't worry about this at all. I think if I just focus on having a good, healthy relationship with him all the rest will work out on it's own.

I have four brothers and for the most part, they are just as close to my mom and our side of the family as their wives are to their moms/their sides of the family. I only have one brother where things have been more strained, and honestly, it's 85% because of his wife and her issues with my mom and our family. IMO my mom is about the most fabulous mother-in-law you could have, and my other sil's have expressed the same sentiment. She loves everyone equally, shows interest in them and their families, and stays out of business that's not hers.

As a child growing up, I think my parents were equally close to their parents. They focused a lot on trying to make things fair and spend equal time with both families. My mom tries really hard to do the same with her children and grandchildren (my dad is deceased).

I feel that I am closer to my family than my dh is to his, but that is more of an emotional thing. We actually spend equal time with both and perhaps even err on spending more time with dh's family because they are nearer to us. But I think I am emotionally closer to my family. However, I think this has more to do with personalities in both families than it does with gender. My dh would say that he is very close to his family, and he is--it just manifests itself differently.

[dharmamama]

I think it depends on the families and the individuals involved, not on the gender of those involved.

Namaste!

[mamawanabe]

Originally Posted by TinkerBelle

In short, I will treat my DILs better than I was treated.

There is a woman at work who can't stand her son's (mid-twenties) girlfriend (thinks she is holding him back etc). I try to gently tell her she's gotta be nice and NEVER say anthing bad about the girlfreind to her son. He WILL tell his girlfreind what she said, and if they end up together, dil will never forget . . .

It must be hard to move from the woman with all the power (mom) to the woman with no power (since wife has all the power). We never have to stop being the most powerfull woman in our daughters' lives (even if she is partnered with a woman, that seems true). ??

[elmh23]

I think it really depends on the family. With us, it is true that I'm closer with my mom than dh is with his parents. But I think that stems from the fact that it was only my mom and I (dh is one of 5 kids) and that dh's parents are a little crazy. But I know for some of my parents, their boyfriends (no one is married yet, except me, lol) are closer with their parents than they are.

[onlyzombiecat]

I will also say it depends on the people rather than gender.

I have 2 siblings- 1 brother, 1 sister. My brother is kind of kept away from our side of the family by his wife. My sister spends much more time with her in-laws than with our parents because her dh wants them to. My siblings both married kind of controlling people. I spend the most time with our parents.

My dh is closest to his mom. They talk on the phone regularly and we visit when we can. He has sisters and is probably more reliably in contact with her than they are. MIL has a lot going on though and is still raising a child. His parents divorced and both re-married and had more children. We don't spend as much time with dh's family as with mine. He isn't really closer to my parents than his own. I think he was more distant from his own family before we married though because of the divorce and stuff.

[TinkerBelle]

When my PIL had their 50th anniversary a few years back, I spent 2 days on my feet, a week after a miscarriage, helping prepare food for their party. I traveled 1000 miles. I was nice and polite. Guess what I got in return?

1. The night before the party DH and his siblings went out to dinner with the parents and excluded the spouses. "Family" only, it was stated. Hmmmm.

2. MIL told me my miscarriage was nothing more than a "missed period".

3. We were expected to drop all other plans for that visit and go to a birthday party for DH's great nephew. We already had other plans. I told MIL and she snottily said, "Well, I will speak to DH then." I told her to have at it. DH knew he better not mess with me on that one.

4. One SIL tried to tell DH that I shouldn't be left behind at MIL's house alone while they had their "exclusionary dinner", but should be made, after being sleep deprived and on my feet all day, to wait in the car with my 4 and 3 yr old children. Because she said I might snoop or steal something. She tried to tell him I snooped in her house several years before, which was a freaking LIE. He told her to get bent.

5. The spouses of the siblings were not thanked for their efforts to make the party a nice one. We were treated like hired help.

6. WHile clean up was going on, I sat down for a MINUTE, and a neice came out and told me I had to go clean up in the kitchen.


And DH wonders why I hate his family and only tolerate them in small doses.

[lilyka]

Holy Crap Tinkerbell. I can't believe your husband still does things with that family. You think he would fl for his life. I would be talkig to dh about how he had better stand up for me at the next family gathering. and if he wouldn't tell him to have fun and that you will see him when he gets home.

[Leilalu]

I am actually closer to MIL. And I have to say I don't entirely agree with that old adage. I mean, in a way-yes. Because women tend to need each other and daughters always need mothers,etc. So, I may agree in terms of influence. BUT- I don't see that mothers have an ongoing right to butt in with daughters. I can see how the mother-son ties need to be somewhat broken for marriage.....and more of a relationship and duty to his wife instead of mother.

I don't really know what I am saying,lol, guess I am rambling now. :LOL

[DaisyRose]

Wow, Tinkerbell, that sounds perfectly awful. My IL's tried the "it's only for family" thing, too. They wanted a family picture of dh, dds and the two of them. I was supposed to stay at home, because I'm not "technically" family.

Needless to say, dh's parents are very careful now about excluding me from the definition of "family".

I just went to a baby shower for a really great friend's wife. Jeremy was best man at our wedding and we love Tracie, his new wife. They just had a baby, and Jeremy's mom, whom I quite like, was unbelievable! She acted like the baby was hers and Tracie was hired help.

It seems to me that mothers of sons have a tougher row to hoe than mothers of daughters. Mothers have to surrender ALL their influence and ALL the power over their sons when the son gets married, or risk alienating their DIL's. The DIL gets to set the rules. Period. The MIL, if she's smart, will follow her lead.

I guess that's why I would be happy to never have sons. It seems to me there are way more horrible MIL's than there are nice ones. I'd be horrified to find myself one of the detested ones.