agonizing over having a section - Page 2

[mommamiagal]

Can you do a c section when the baby is crowning? I would think that it was too late for a decision such as that. I think that would be considered a real emergency at that time, and then everyone gets too excited and worried, that 's when mistakes happen like bladders being cut and all of those other horror stories.
I think my home birth doctor did some sort of cork screw maneuever with his hands grabbing her out, and she was not damaged by it. I was on all fours as well. I would hate a repeat of that.

[alegna]

Honestly? I think that your problem was that you were attended by Drs. I feel very strongly that in most cases drs approach birth in a way that causes more problems than it solves. I think that most births are best (and most safely) handled in a hands off manner. It just makes sense. No other animal has others sticking their hands up to help them birth.

In your shoes I would find a midwife at all costs.



-Angela

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by alegna

Honestly? I think that your problem was that you were attended by Drs. I feel very strongly that in most cases drs approach birth in a way that causes more problems than it solves.

I thought her first post said she had her babies at home? I had assumed she was either unassisted or had a midwife.

[alegna]

There is a practice of homebirth Drs. in Chicago. I believe that's who she had attend.

-Angela

[Storm Bride]

Ah - okay. I hadn't come across any references to homebirth doctors before. Thx.

[FrumDoula]

Originally Posted by alegna

No other animal has others sticking their hands up to help them birth.

In your shoes I would find a midwife at all costs.



-Angela

At the risk of sounding snarky I have to point out that vets help their animals all the time give birth. In fact, the OB who helped to turn my malpositioned baby the last time I gave birth originally learned her skills because she grew up on a farm and her dad taught her to help the sheep give birth when there was a malpresentation.

I guess the sheep liked her smaller hands.

But in theory, I'm totally there with you, sister!

[NoraB]

[QUOTE=mommamiagal]Can you do a c section when the baby is crowning? I would think that it was too late for a decision such as that. I think that would be considered a real emergency at that time, and then everyone gets too excited and worried, that 's when mistakes happen like bladders being cut and all of those other horror stories.
QUOTE]I think baby can be pushed up in birth canal if crowing and as long as the heart tones sound good, it shouldn't be a cause for freak out...but then again, OBs tend to freak out at the slightest deviation from "normal" .

[shannon0218]

Alison is exactly right, there are MANY animals who require help to birth--sure there are some that don't and that's why the incidence of death of the mother and the baby animal is fairly high in the wild--in animals we call it survival of the fittest. We just birthed a calf here last month who came out with his back legs chained to the tractor--without that we'd have lost them both--farmers and vets don't take intervention lightly, but I can assure you it happens. My girlfriends horse tore through during birth and we had to have her dh push the foal back in rectally so I could reach in vaginally and pull him back into the vaginal canal.

For Wombat, you can have a c-section without pain meds-I did. I also went home after 2 days, I don't know how it is in the states but in Canada, if you feel fine and you really want to leave, they'll let you.

[mommamiagal]

I guess I should set the record straight about my Homebirth. I was totally undisturbed.It was just me and my husband in our bedroom or whereever. The doctor doesn't come until he is called to basically help catch the baby, and since I had a previous shoulder dystocia, it was wise that he be there for the delivery. During my labor, I had a homebirth nurse checking in on us occassionally, just being in the next room in case we needed her. She did check me now and then to see where I was, and I welcomed it to help me feel encouraged about my progress. I was in my own bedroom and had a birthing tub, candles , music, everything I wanted. I ate, drank, took a bath, you name it. Homebirth is a beautiful, comfortable thing..I wish I could experence the labor this way again. But, I do believe there is a small percentage of women who need help, that's why we should be grateful for medical technology, when it isn't abused. In the last post, I read that even animals need help sometimes.Look at all the women in 3rd world countries who are suffering because of their unassissted labors that went on way too long and now have to live with the humiliation of a fistula and possible without the child they birthed. I am a complete advocate of birthing from within, it was my bible throughout my last two homebirths, I hypnobirthed..I tried it all, but when it came down to physically pushing (and I had the urge, I wasn't told when to push )I couldn't get the shoulders out.Her head crowned just fine, it's the shoulders. She was out for 5 minutes making faces , my husband said it was so weird, but no shoulders. That's when things went into high gear..moving around with a head sticking out of me for 5 minutes. It seemed sirreal. I needed the doctors help in getting herout before the birth had a different outcome.
Believe me I am still praying that this decision gets taken away from me, like a early labor that just completely progresses to an easy birth , but unfortunately I can't know for sure that outcome either. It is all so confusing.
Thank you, Thank you for all your advise......

[HeartsOpenWide]

I have hear enough stories of woman that had a c-section because they were told the baby's head was too large to only hive vaginal birth to her next child which was even bigger. There are ways to give birth vaginally with shoulder dystocia, get on all fours. It is called the Gaskin's manuver even though the woman that it is named after learned it from some one else....it works. Your only 31 weeks and they have you scheduled for a c-section, geeze. Fight for your right to have a trial of a vaginal birth. Even if you have to switch doctors. My friend had a VBAC after her first baby was face first. She said her VBAC restored her confidance and that she could really see a difference in the relationship (much closer) with her VBAC baby and did not suffer from PPD like she did after the section.

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by NoraB

I think baby can be pushed up in birth canal if crowing and as long as the heart tones sound good, it shouldn't be a cause for freak out...but then again, OBs tend to freak out at the slightest deviation from "normal" .

The OB held my sister's little girl inside while she was being rushed to OR. My niece was the second of twins, and after her brother came through vaginally, she dropped down sideways (transverse?), with her arm hanging out...and her colour was very bad. So, I suppose they can do a lot even at the last minute.

[meowee]

Originally Posted by mommamiagal

Look at all the women in 3rd world countries who are suffering because of their unassissted labors that went on way too long and now have to live with the humiliation of a fistula and possible without the child they birthed. I am a complete advocate of birthing from within,

This is exactly what your post made me think of-- There are many women in 3rd world countries who would be grateful just to have had the option of a c-section. There was an article about this in Cosmo a few months ago that I still think of all the time, those poor women. I read it in the midwive's office.

[Baby Hopes]

I know very little about fistula's in third world countries... my entire education coming from an episode of Oprah. So for whatever that's worth. I was under the impression that contributing factor for most of these 3rd World girls was just that. They are girls (12 or 13 year olds) with still developing bodies birthing babes.

Anyway, just thinking aloud. Someone correct me if I am wrong.

[liseux]

"There are ways to give birth vaginally with shoulder dystocia, get on all fours. It is called the Gaskin's manuver even though the woman that it is named after learned it from some one else....it works."
HeartsOpenWide
I respectfully have to mention that the Gaskin maneuver is not 100% effective. Human babies still get severely injured from s. dystocia and cows and horses still die during severe s.d. deliveries too. It would be nice if shoulder dystocia was so predictable and manageable, it can still be a huge emergency.

Here`s more info on the African fistula hospital http://www.fistulafoundation.org/hospital/

[Heavenly]

Wow is anyone actually listening to the poster? She says she had homebirths and still has people saying, "Oh you should have had homebirths." She says she tried different positions and then has people saying "Oh you should have tried different positions." Then she says that she was on all fours and someone responds, "Well you can deliver vaginally just get on all fours." I don't even know the poster or anyting about the situation she is discussing but my goodness people could you please read all of her posts before dispensing advice? Yes, there are people that have true complications. Why are you sure she isn't one of them?

[mommamiagal]

I must reiterate that I was on all fours trying to deliver the shoulders of my baby, and they STILL were not delivering after crowning for more than 5 minutes. I am not sure whether or not they used the Gaskin manuever,sounds like it, but he went in and manually got her out which I believe contributed to the 4th degree. My homebirth doctors are excellent , and very skilled with this type of thing and actually told me that they hadn't seen this in many many years.( Maybe I am not the Birthing Goddess that I thought I was. ) I am grateful and feel blessed that I have 2 healthy and undamaged daughters. Should I press my luck for a 3rd situation such as this, since it seems to be getting worse with each birth and the babies are getting larger too. Also, do I want to become incontinent and lose feeling down there where it could affect the relationship between my husband and I ? These are all things I must consider.
If the baby were to be damaged or God forbid didn't make it from a shoulder dystocia complications, which I am aware could happen, could I live with the decision I made when 3 doctors, my homebirth doctor, urogynecologist, and my OB advised me to have a c section? Is there anyone out there that could comment on this type of situation where all aspects are present, not just the 4th degree.

Regarding the comment about my doctor recommending the c section at only 31 weeks, it is apparent through examinations of my pelvic floor that I have had some reconstruction , as well as the birth history of the two shoulder dystocia's..this is just her recommendation and she probably feels compelled to alert me of what may or may not happen next time. It is ultimately my decision, that is why I am here posting.
Thank you for all of your support.

[mommamiagal]

THANK YOU HEAVENLY! It is so hard for me to swallow that I can not have a homebirth, let alone that I am going from a completely natural environment into a completely medical environment.

I guess the reason I brought up the women in 3rd world countries suffering from fistulas, constantly soaked and smelling of pee and poop, is because we ought to be grateful that we have the medical technologies that we have in place. I do agree that the C section rates are way too high, and a lot are done because of medical interventions, but there are real situations that seem to warrant them. I am trying to figure out if I am one of those situations.....

[liseux]

Heavenly,

[JohnnysGirl]

I just wanted to give mommamiagal a hug and tell you I wish you all the best in your decision and in all your journey to come...

[shannon0218]

Well said Heavenly!! I am one of those people for whom a healthy baby would absolutely not be a reality if not for medical intervention--I lost 3 while trusting my body "could do it on it's own" I'd have loved a natural pregnancy and birth where I could have gone through things saying my body knew what to do, but while I mourn not ever having that--I wouldn't trade my daughter for 20 natural pregnancies and births.