"Giving in" to tantrums or crying

[DevaMajka]

Do you ever "give in" to tantrums or crying? Or do you feel that once you say "no" or take something away that you need to stick with it? Does it depend? Do you think that you can sometimes change your mind about something, and that's not necessarily giving in?
Take for example something that happened here today. Ds, 11 mos old, got ahold of the salt shaker, because we left it out. He was having quite the fun time pouring it out on our coffee table thing and playing in it (not eating it, or even interested in eating it). I came in and saw it, and my immediate reaction was to take it away. He cried like it was the end of the world. lol.
So, what would you do there?
I gave him back the salt shaker. For a few reasons- the mess was already made. We shouldn't have left it where he could get to it. But I think the biggest reason I gave it back was because it was obvious by his crying that it was important to him that he continue to play with it. It wasn't really as important to me that he stop. So I changed my mind, based on his input.
I like how John Gray defines "giving in" in Children Are From Heaven. He says that you are giving in when you do things that you don't want to do to stop conflict, to prevent a scene, or to pacify, etc. THAT, he says, is what spoils children. Doing what you want to do, or even changing your mind about what you want to do, is not a bad thing. Even (or especially) when that's the same thing that your child wants.
Ok, just curious on how you all feel about and deal with this stuff.

Becky
Keagan 11 mos

[SagMom]

Originally Posted by Deva33mommy

Do you ever "give in" to tantrums or crying?

If my kid is having a tantrum or is crying, I try to find out why and change whatever it is that's causing them such grief. I don't think of it as "giving in" though, just responding.

Take for example something that happened here today. Ds, 11 mos old, got ahold of the salt shaker, because we left it out. He was having quite the fun time pouring it out on our coffee table thing and playing in it (not eating it, or even interested in eating it). I came in and saw it, and my immediate reaction was to take it away. He cried like it was the end of the world.

I would have just let him play in it--or, if the mess was really an issue, maybe given him a container of salt (a bowl? a box?) that he could pour and play in. I figure messes are just part of having kids--it's going to happen, yk? There was no danger in playing in it, expense wasn't an issue...I can't really find a reason to object.

But I think the biggest reason I gave it back was because it was obvious by his crying that it was important to him that he continue to play with it. It wasn't really as important to me that he stop. So I changed my mind, based on his input.

Sounds reasonable to me.

I like how John Gray defines "giving in" in Children Are From Heaven. He says that you are giving in when you do things that you don't want to do to stop conflict, to prevent a scene, or to pacify, etc. THAT, he says, is what spoils children.

I'm not familiar with this author. I would agree that it's not healthy to give in to things that you really don't want to do, but I don't see a problem with children getting what they want. In fact, I encourage my kids to find a way to get what they want--as long as they're not harming anyone or damaging someone else's property.

[rockinmama]

I would have totally done the same thing in your situation.
I usually try to nip really messy things in the bud -
The distinction i make is that when i "give in" i say to her something like "oh, i didnt realize this was so important to you. You can *whatever* for a while more and help me pick it up when you are finished (big smile)"
She has started doing this funny thing lately though where she will fake cry for a second if i tell her no about something we both know is more serious.
I usually look at her like " oh come on " and she stopps right away.

[DevaMajka]

Originally Posted by rockinmama

The distinction i make is that when i "give in" i say to her something like "oh, i didnt realize this was so important to you. You can *whatever* for a while more and help me pick it up when you are finished (big smile)"

Oohhh. I like that. Ya mind if I borrow that? lol Smart mommy!

Becky

[Jade2561]

If dd has something I left out and I don't want her to have, I pick her up and THEN take it out of her hand. If she does freak I know she won't hurt herself by throwing herself backwards and I can pat her back and talk to her; tell her it's hard being a baby, ect. Works like a charm so far!

[Piglet68]

i would have done the same thing. sometimes its good for kids to see we're only human.

[Dechen]

I have three categories:

1. Things I will not or can't give in on. There aren't that many of these - they tend to be safety issues, or involve other people's property. Example - running into the street, being destructive in a store.

2. Things I say no to, but realize that they are (a) really important to dd and (b) not dangerous or illegal. Example: dd wanted to "browse" the freezer. Got very upset when I wouldn't allow her to. I thought it over, and realized I objected because I was afraid she would take out all the food (or find the ice cream, LOL). So I stopped what I was doing and supervised her while she browsed. Lo and behold, she didn't remove anything. She looked, and pointed, and named, and fondled a few things. After a minute or two we were able to close the freezer door. Net loss - a little bit of energy from the freezer and 2 minutes of my time.

3. Things I say no to, but realize we can work out a compromise. Example: Dd REALLY REALLY wanted to eat Pirate Booty out of the full bag. I did not want a bag of Pirate Booty to end up all over my floor, wasting food and money as well as making a mess and helping the dog stay fat. Compromise: 90% of Pirate's Booty went into a storage container, and dd got to carry the bag and eat her snack.

I find the more I rethink my "No's" the more creative I get about future situations. I'm not TSC, but I have found inspiration in the TSC attitude.

I don't feel like I have to prove anything by sticking to a no if I can see a decent reason to rethink things.

[Ravin]

I'll sometimes change my mind, but as she becomes more verbal I encourage her more to use words instead of crying to get what she wants, and I talk to her about it until she listens to me and responds with words or signs. Basically, I want to respect her desires and wishes within reason (as the PP described above with things like the freezer, etc., vs. safety issues I won't compromise on), but at the same time I don't want her to come to believe that throwing a fit is the best or even a desireable way of getting what she wants. I have a twentysomething sister who still does this, and it's really SO not. That said, I'm also working on my own temper tantrums (which tend to be rants to myself but occur all to often in front of DD). :

[meemee]

Becky i would have done the same too. and i have done many such things with my dd when she was ur sons age. esp. because they are so curious with the world and always experimenting to see how things work. when i found she figured out how to use the cd player as she grew older i explained the remote functions when she asked me and also allowed her to figure out the vcr and dvd player under strict supervision.

as she has grown older i have learnt to be a more relaxed mom too. which also meant changing my mind more often. most of my strategies have been like dechen. and right from the begining i have always explained my actions. if no why no. today all it requires is a look and a nod instead of a no.

because of its negative conotation i hate the term 'giving in' too.

in our house there was nothing 'no'. seh could do whatever she wanted as long as she followed rules. when she started treating the couch as a diving board or a trampoline or a slide she could do it as long as she followed certain rules. u'd be surprised how easily and how early they can learn them. when she got interested in my computer i gave her the chore to press the button to turn it on every morning. when the 'no no' item no longer was a no no item she soon lost interest in it.

[merrick]

I agree with the pp. While I believe it is important to be consistant and for your child to know you mean what you say, I think it is also important for them to know that you can be flexible as well. Parents can make mistakes and hasty decisions too, we're all human. It's good for them to see that we can admit when we've done so. Some things are just not that big of a deal. I think they can tell the difference between when you actually are changing your mind and when you are just "giving in" to stop a tantrum. Too different things IMO, but it is helpful if you verbalize it for them like rockinmama did.

[stafl]

I try real hard not to say no if I don't really mean it. One of the things that still bugs me the most about my mother is that I never know if she means what she says. She never had any consistent boundaries. We never had any discipline at all. It was, and still is, very confusing and hard to live with a person who will say "no" or "don't do that" but not mean it. We never knew if we were going to get in trouble, and when we did get in trouble, we usually didn't even know why! Discipline was more a factor of my mother's anger than of our actions. I don't always know what the right thing is, but I know that's the wrong thing to do.

As far as tantrums go, thank goodness we're moving beyond that age! But I found that changing my reaction to tantrums made the biggest difference in their force and duration. I had to learn to not react the way my parents did, to not get angry with her when she was like that. I had to remind myself that my kid throwing a big fit is no reflection on me or my parenting ability. If I stay calm, she calms down much quicker. I also learned to avoid situations that would cause a big fit, and to limit foods that contribute to problems with my DD (sugar, dairy, and red food color trigger her crankiness).

[HelloKitty]

I do sometimes change my mind - I try to pick my battles and if he is upset over something that I realize really isn't all that important then I will give in.

[maya44]

I would definitely explain my actions. Like "Oh its not that big a deal to me, if its important to you, here." (An 11 m.o. might not understand but it never hurts to explain)

Then when you take something away because it is dangerous and he cries you can at least explain too "Sorry sweetie but this one is a big deal, its not safe for you to touch that"

[cmb123]

Originally Posted by Dechen

I don't feel like I have to prove anything by sticking to a no if I can see a decent reason to rethink things.

Yeah that.

[Plummeting]

I do it all the time with my 14-month-old, I'm ashamed to say. I'm not ashamed that I'm flexible or that I sometimes realize I've said 'no' too hastily, but I *am* ashamed that I am so often guilty of saying 'no' too quickly. I'm really trying to change that. (Actually, I don't really say the word 'no' too often, but I tell her, 'that's not for you', etc.) I'm really working on thinking about whether or not she's actually hurting anything or endangering herself before I tell her to stop doing something. That way I won't have to change my mind so often.

[MusicLadyToo]

I think the most important think in changing your mind, is making sure the child knows that YOU changed your mind and that the TANTRUM did not. Of course the explanation differs depending on the child and the age. My 10yo knows that a tantrum won't work even if I would have changed my mind. It's just not ok to me because he knows he's manipulating the situation. My 7yo stepdaughter knows that with her mom a tantrum will just about ALWAYS get her what she wants and with her dad and me it won't. She knows that if I might change my mind and she is having a tantrum, that she will have to calm down before she can have or get whatever it was that started the situation. I will explain to her that I was quick to say no and that I have changed my mind because I can see the importance to her. My 2yos has to at least stop screaming before he can have it back. He can still be whimpering as long as he has calmed down enough to listen. (Most of the time) Of course none of this is foolproof for me and we do digress at times as we are all only human (just so that no one thinks we succeed at this all the time everytime LOL)

[Embee]

The best way I found to avoid this inconsistency was this:

BEFORE I say no, before I take anything away, I ask myself: Is this truly damaging or harmful in some way or is it just perhaps a little annoying? Can I allow this to play out and not be all that inconvenienced? If I'm concerned about him becoming harmed, is there a way to make it more safe? Etc. I never say no, or take away unless I absolutely have to and even then, I offer a similar substitute at the same time as I retrieve the said item. The ol' bait and switch you might say. When I MUST say no, I know I've done so for a very good reason, and because of that, no tantrum will change my mind. Safety is a top priority of course. I'm not unsympathetic mind you, always stick close by with words of empathy, but also the words, "You safety is one of my chief concerns, I'm sorry I can't let you play with that." And then, still be on the lookout for a way to redirect and "meet the need" the babe was trying to fulfil.

This is just the beginning of the "getting into everything" stage. Try to hold back as much of the time as you can. Avoid knee jerk reactions, take a breath and ask the above question. The less kids are thwarted, and able to explore, the happier you'll both be. And once the item in question is fully explored, you can then put it up and out of the way. I have found that there are just so many things you CAN say YES to. Many more than I imagined I would.

And then, when you do say NO and realize that you've goofed? I think its okay to back petal once and again. Kids knowing we're human can actually be a pretty reassuring thing for them (when they make mistakes, they know its normal and OK). I usually just acknowledge like so: "I said no because climbing ladders CAN be dangerous, but I suppose if I stand right here below, it would be safe. Ok to climb as long as mom or dad are here! Go for it!"

My .02 for what its worth.

The best,
Em

[Venice Mamacita]

Like many PPs, I try to pick my battles w/DS. He's 26 months, though, and seems to be in destructive mode right now, which makes it awkward & challenging. He's also prone to banging his head on our bamboo floor if he gets overwhelmed w/anger or frustration . . . so we have multiple reasons for wanting to delay or prevent a tantrum.

If he's not destroying something (putting a dent in the floor or a hole in the wall) or putting himself in danger, we pretty much leave him to his mischief. But yesterday, when he was "helping" me cook dinner by banging the handle of a metal whisk on the floor, and I warned him that if he didn't stop it would go bye-bye, and I did wind up taking it away from him. This threw him into a huge tantrum, but I didn't give in. When DH came home at the tail end of the tantrum, he questioned why I didn't just redirect DS instead of taking the whisk away. It's a learning process for all of us, and I'll think of that next time.

As hard as I try, I do still have moments when the whole reason becomes, "Because I said so," which is the exact opposite of who I want to be as a mother. My bottom line: If nothing and no one is being damaged, let it go . . . and redirect whenever possible!

[SpiralWoman]

wow, what a good thread! I really like all the ways of looking at being flexible & open minded about kid's behavior. I totally "change my mind" & "give in" all the time. Usually I think it brings us much closer & helps us communicate better. DS is 25mo BTW. It helps me to look at situations thru his eyes & slow down.

Today I had an example of needing to be consistent & say no, tho & I was actually pretty nervous about it! I find that I judge myself as a bad mom when Ds cries & I feel that hurts my decision making sometimes. I don;t think my main objective should always be avoiding crying. I felt proud of how things went to day tho.

Here is what happened: We were eating lunch in the DR, the tv in the next room was off for the 1st time all morning. DS is currently crazy about captain feathersword & goes around saying "captain" all day & loves to dance the pirate dance with the wiggles, etc. The dvd gets going on continous loop : & he goes about playing all over the house & sometimes wanders over to watch & dance. This is an example of me giving in, because I surely never envisioned my household with the wiggles on continous loop. But it finally got turned off without protest & we were both happy. Ok, back to lunch: DS is still eating chips & salsa, then suddenly decides he wants down. He is done with everything else, so it's cool to take the chips & go play, but not the salsa. I give him the choice of getting down with chips or staying at the table with salsa. Then I realize he wants down so that he can get wiggles back on, & to communicate this to me, he stands in front of the tv saying: "tb, wiggies, salsa, pease!!!" Which is so cute I just want to hug him & kiss him all over. However, he cannot have salsa in the living room! And it is really not ok that he wants salsa in the LR so he can continue his out of control obsession with the captain. So, I have to say no. You can have salsa at the table. You can play. We can go in the play room with chips & sing & dance there. No, we are not turning on the tv for more wiggles (now he is signing "more more" & saying wiggles & getting super sad & tearful.) I stayed compassionate as I told him no, but I stayed seated at the table & tried not to freak out while he freaked out. I told him I was sorry he was so frustrated & that I knew how it felt not to get what you want. (now he is on howl & cry & really wanting to communicate how much he wants this) I tell him I understand what he wants & tell him what we can do instead. I am really afraid he is going to go full tantrum now & wondering what I am going to do, but pretty sure I am doing the right thing for both of us. Next he gives a big scream & runs out of the room & thru the house... then it is over, he gets fascinated with the next thing. Whew!!! So, I really feel lucky that he could blow off that steam & move on & I am really glad that I said no & let him deal with his frustration. I think it was really neccessary!

sorry to go on & on, & thanks for all the cool idea from pps.
~Maria

[sparklemom]

yes! i "give in" a lot!
the most important thing your can show your child is that their feelings count to you. when they're feelings count, "giving in" is part of the program.

Do you think that you can sometimes change your mind about something, and that's not necessarily giving in?

you bet!

allow children to be chilren. let it go.
learning is a messy business sometimes.