Is this manipulative?

[PuppyFluffer]

We have a new cat and he is really cool! Very outgoing and snuggly.

Dd is newly 3. She loves animals but runs after the cat and makes him run away from her. It is clearly intentional as she will yell just to get him started, then physically chase after him.

Dh just asked dd "Do you want the kitty to like you?" and proceeded to explain to her that chasing after him scares him and that if she didn't do that then he would not run from her. He would come up to her to be pet etc.

Now, that seems manipulative to me. I don't like the "Do you want the kitty to like you?" sentence.

What you think?

[MeadowSong_]

I think it sounds a little manipulative, I don't think I would do it. I guess showing her the right way to treat the kitty would be WAY more effective. Like having her sit down and pet the kitty, or having her help put food and water in her dish.

[BusyMommy]

I'm sure I'm in the minority but it doesn't bother me. She needs to know how her actions affect the cat; ie. if she scares the cat, he'll run away b/c he's afraid. And, if he's afraid he won't want to "play" w/her. My kids know very well that if they're mean, they will get scratched. It took one or two scratches and they treat all of our cats w/utmost respect. And, we talk about how much the cats love them and love to be petted, etc.


Is it just the if/then that bothers you? Or, the "like" part? I guess I'd leave out the liking the person part but explain that cats don't like to be scared.

[**guest**]

i think it could be, depending on how you say it. you can say it with a very factual tone, and proceed with an explanation, then i would not think it is manipulative.

i think it *sounds* manipulative in this case, because it is an oversimplification of the facts -- a lot of facts and consequences really condensed into one sentence.

having the benefit of thinking about it, the same can be phrased differently --"kitty does not like being chased".

a lot depends on intent, and the tone of voice.

[alliwenk]

hmmmm...Manipulative? No. It sounds honest; your dh probably doesn't put as much "meaning" into the term as you do. The fact is: the kitty won't like you if you don't greet him on his own terms, right? Perhaps he could have worded it differently but I don't see the problem.

[PuppyFluffer]

Yes it is honest....

But here's a conversation I just heard:

Dd has ovbiously made a noise or gesture to cause the cat to run.
Dh says in a quite, exasperated voice "What do I have to do to get you to be nice to the kitty? Do you want the kitty to like you?"

I guess you have to hear the tone.

We just talked about this and I told him I think he needs to explain more. I think it might be fine if he would explain that the cat won't want to be near her if he is afraid of her and that he gets scared when she does that. That gives her information.

I don't want my child to feel the outside pressure of "approval this early in her life. AND frankly, telling her the cat does not like her does not have any effect on her behavior! I think it is a cause and effect issue. She can do something and create a response in the cat. Small kids have such little control in their world. When they have the power to cause a response, they like it.

I think the only way to handle this is to put the cat in a safe place (the bedroom) and tell Dd that the cat has to go where he can be safe from her because her actions are scaring him and are not nice to him. I am sure she will outgrow this behavior as she gains more understanding of how her actions can cause harm to others but she just turned 3 a few weeks ago and I can tell ya, right now, she is not there yet!

[BusyMommy]

Wait till kitty scratches her.

My youngest, at 2, made the connection a long time ago.

[PuppyFluffer]

I'm waiting and not interfereing too much regarding the scratch. I wish he'd do it soon!

The issue here is that all her misbehavior is out of scratching range! Unfortunately!

[alliwenk]

pf...I hear your frustration but are you sure that you aren't reading too much into your dh's comments/tone? I dislike societal expectations of children as much as the next radical, but are you sure that he is really perpetuating that within her? I'd bet he simply wants a peaceful household in which the cat and kiddo can co-exist...just like you do.

I think like BusyMommy on this one. Let the kitty deal with her. She'll soon learn what kitty will tolerate.

[PuppyFluffer]

I may be reading more into his words to her than he intends. But he is not giving her explainations of why the cat won't "like" her.

I'd rather he explain to her that the cats feels scared, that he does not want to be near her rather than to say that the cat won't like her and leave it at that.

I guess I don't want her coming up to me and asking "Mommy, do you like me?" and I can see that coming. Of course I like her!!! But I don't want her opinion of herself to be shaped by whether she will be liked. Or her behavior to be determined by whether she will be liked.

I guess it just doesn't seem to be teaching her the lesson about why she shouldn't harass the cat. I want her to be nice to the cat because it's the right thing to do. Not because the cat will like her.

And this exclaiming a loud noise and running after him comes from her learning that out other cat does scratch when she bothers him. She has taken her "bothering" to a distance so she can still affect the cat's behavior, she just does it from a safe distance.

OMG Alliwenk, I just read your sig line. Sort of appropriate for the topic!

[irinam]

Would she understand if you rephrased the comment to

"Cats (pets) get scared when they hear a loud noise. They don't like anybody who makes loud noise or chaces after them"

And may be after making a general comment like that a few times, you can say "And same with you or me or Daddy - the cat will not like the ones that yell at it"

Kinda like with adults, not a personal blame or what-have-you, but stating the general fact.

I know she is only 3 though

[RufusBeans]

Hi, I just got a new cat too, but my babe is only 15 months and the kitty chases my dog so much bab doesn't have a chance to chase him.


anyway, I am no expert with cats nor development, but isn't age three the start of empathy development? I think I would rephase it as, "The kitty doesn't like it when he gets chased" so it is not saying whether she is liked or not.

congratulation on your cat.

[kaydee]

When our son chases the cats, we say one something along the lines of "When you chase the cats, it scares them," or "It's not nice to chase the cats--they get scared" or "If you chase the cats, they won't want to play with you." Similar to what your dp said, but maybe more factual and, therefore, less manipulative.

We wouldn't ask if he wants the cats to like him mostly because they have been freaked out by him since we brought him home from the hospital--long before he started chasing them! :rolleye

[Heavenly]

"But he is not giving her explainations of why the cat won't "like" her."

"and proceeded to explain to her that chasing after him scares him and that if she didn't do that then he would not run from her. He would come up to her to be pet etc"


Well which is it? You say he didn't explain but in your first point you said he proceeded to explain... I think you are reading WAY too much into it. He is speaking to a 4 year old and telling her the cat won't like her if she's mean. It won't. What is wrong with that? I personally think people worry too much about every little thing they say, that it's going to damage a child's psyche. I have been known to tell my son that if he is rude to other people at the park they won't like him. Its true. I'm not telling him that they won't like him because he is unlikable, I tell him they won't like him because all they see is him being mean. I honestly fail to see how it is a bad thing to raise a child who cares about how other people, and animals, feel.

[PuppyFluffer]

Originally Posted by Heavenly

"But he is not giving her explainations of why the cat won't "like" her."

"and proceeded to explain to her that chasing after him scares him and that if she didn't do that then he would not run from her. He would come up to her to be pet etc"


Well which is it? You say he didn't explain but in your first point you said he proceeded to explain... I think you are reading WAY too much into it. He is speaking to a 4 year old and telling her the cat won't like her if she's mean. It won't. What is wrong with that? I personally think people worry too much about every little thing they say, that it's going to damage a child's psyche. I have been known to tell my son that if he is rude to other people at the park they won't like him. Its true. I'm not telling him that they won't like him because he is unlikable, I tell him they won't like him because all they see is him being mean.

In the first example I gave, he did give an explaination. In the second example I gave, he didn't give an explaination. He just stated that the cat wouldn't like her. So, both were correct. I was describing two different incidents that happened close together.

He is not speaking to a 4 year old. He is speaking to a 3 year old who just turned 3 last month. She is a very young 3.

I think that one can make themselves nuts trying to be "politically correct" all the time regarding our children's psyches and I don't think that it is necessary to be quite that cautious about it. I think we will each have our own specific aspects that are important to us.

I honestly fail to see how it is a bad thing to raise a child who cares about how other people, and animals, feel.

My issue with my dh saying the cat won't like her is that it gives no information about the cat's feelings. If she is not told how it scares him, hurts his feelings etc, how is she to know that? Simply being told that he "won't like her" is not teaching her about the cat's feelings. Caring about others feelings first means that you know how others feel and understanding that your actions cause others to have feelings is much more involved than simply whether they like you or not.

It is my intention to raise a child who is aware of others feelings and how she can inpact them.

[alliwenk]

Now that I've slept I see your point pf I agree with RufusBeans..."kitty doesn't like it when you..." is way better than "kitty doesn't like you when you..." Sorry I missed that yesterday...and yes, my sig is eerily appropriate

[boston]

I think it's okay for a child to hear that if she behaves badly toward others that they won't want to be around her. That's the reality of the world. If you are mean to people they wont like you. If you are mean to animals they wont like you. Why dance around that or pretend that's not the case? We can make ourselves likeable by simply being kind to others. Explaining just the science of it (it hurts kitty when you pull her tail) doesn't explain that kitty is afraid of you now because you routinely hurt her, and if you want her to trust you again you need to be gentle.

[LadyGodiva]

I just think it is wonderful that your cat actually HAS claws, really!
:
What freaks me is people who have kitty declawed (which is an amputation of the first phalange, for those who didn't know) so kiddo doesn't get hurt...

I've had cats all my life and got a few scratches. Once my cat almost made minced meat out of me at the vet, I had to hold the poor thing back to be examined and he panicked. These claws really are razor sharp.
Cat scratches are OK, but bites must always be checked. They can turn nasty very quickly.

And I do not think that your DH is manipulating your kid. Not in a negative way anyways, on the contrary: it's for her good and for the good of the kitty.

[BusyMommy]

What freaks me is people who have kitty declawed (which is an amputation of the first phalange, for those who didn't know) so kiddo doesn't get hurt...

Yeah, just think about the lesson THAT teaches your kids.

[PuppyFluffer]

Originally Posted by LadyGodiva

I just think it is wonderful that your cat actually HAS claws, really!
:

Absolutely! I am a professional pet groomer and work one Sat a month at an animal hospital. When I worked full time, I saw tons of surgeries and the cat declaws always seemed to me to wake the roughest. Those and the ear crops. Horrid horrid thing to do to an animal!!!

I'm waiting for the time when the cat really wails on her! It's a necessary lesson. It's coming some day.

And I must disagree with you about cat scratches being benign. They can harbor cat scratch disease which is a bartonella bacteria. Cas scratch disease can be painful and a lengthy thing to deal with. Granted it is much less common than complications from cat bites but it does warrant knowledge of it.

And another tip, before taking kitty to the vet - trim your cat's nails. I groomed alot of cats in my full time working days. I never ever start work on a cat without trimming the nails. Newly trimmed nails can cause some damage also but it's far far less than sharp ones.

Thanks for all the input!