Tone of voice and GD.

[txgal]

Sorry if there is a thread on this already. My son is 16 mo. old and while I never yell at him or raise my voice I do speak "firmly" at times. I am not talking about when he won't pick up a toy, but more like if he hits at me while nursing or is pulling on the dogs tail. I say "DS, no! that is not nice, we do not hit, that hurts mommy" and give him the stern mommy look
So is it ever appropriate to use a stern voice with your children?
I ask mainly because my sil is very AP/GD and she never does. Once we were in the car and her oldest (3-4 yrs at the time) opened the car door while we were driving down the freeway. She just turned around very calm and said "Now sweety we don't do that, it is dangerous" and then proceeded to tell me that she had done it on numerous other occasions. I felt like she should have made it more clear in her tone of voice that you "NEVER open the door when the car is moving" So how do you handled it when DC is doing something that could be dangerous etc... Aside from removing them from the situation, which I also do if it doesn't stop after talking to him.

Lydia

[mamabeca]

lurking...

[txgal]

anybody? I really just want to know if others may have a different way of looking at this that I haven't considered.

Lydia

[annab]

I think tone of voice is everything. It is what you can use in place of punishment. A look, a tone, body language--all of that sets the mood for what is happening whether it is fun or danger. You can use a stern voice, but still address your child in a way that is loving and respectful. The right tone can keep you from having to threaten, "If you do that one more time..." A voice of grave concern can convey your feelings much better.

Your voice is a powerful tool. I would use it.

[Dragonfly]

I have to say that it drives me thoroughly nuts when I hear people address their children in that super sappy, wishy-washy tone when the situation warrants a serious tone. Seriously, how effective is, "Oh no sweety-weetykins. Mommy doesn't want you to stick the fork in the electrical socket, okaaaaaaay?"

I do think that a stern voice can be totally overused and can start to wear on a child's psyche. I've been guilty of it - that and veering over into the snappy tone. But shifting into the "I'm very serious here" or "I'm totally freaked out and trying to keep it together here" tones when the situation demands is, IMO, both appropriate and I'd even go so far as to say important. It's definitely instructive to your child - especially a child who can't necessarily understand all of the words.

[Isis]

I think tone of voice is very important! In a life threatening situation- your scared voice is what can make a difference. If your child is about to run into the street wouldn't you scream in a scared voice STOP!!!??? You wouldn't say "sweetie, please stop, don't run into the street hunny buns"! In a situation when your dc is opening the car door while driving, I would use a very stern, serious voice when discussing it. That's not something I would take lightly!

[maya44]

I think a loud voice is very important in a situation involving actual danger.

And I think a serious voice can be helpful in conveying how seriously you feel about a situation.

I think that when we live with anybody 24 hrs per day, we are not alwasy going to convey sweetness and light in our voices and that is ok, so long as it is not abusive.

[kaydee]

Originally Posted by maya44

I think a loud voice is very important in a situation involving actual danger.

And I think a serious voice can be helpful in conveying how seriously you feel about a situation.

I think that when we live with anybody 24 hrs per day, we are not alwasy going to convey sweetness and light in our voices and that is ok, so long as it is not abusive.

My thoughts exactly.

Tone of voice is one of the tools we use to communicate the content of our message--it's not just the words.

I'd also add that people get frustrated and angry with their loved ones. Sometimes that frustration is going to show. By working through it with your child--by showing that anger & frustration are natural, that they can be expressed, and that they pass--you are doing your child a service, IMO.

[meemee]

lydia, if that was my dd i would have handled it depending on my dd's reaction. if she didnt seem to get teh enormity of her action the v. first time, i would immediately tell her that was dangerous and explain why and then stop talking. i woud pull up safely at a designated stop zone and get out of the car, get on her level, make eye contact and in a firm voice tell her that was not appropriate and explain why. and tell her it was NEVER to be repeated again.

now if my dd upon opening the door was terrified of what she had done i probably would have said what ur SIL said but also explained what dangerous meant. i would have used a v. calm sweet voice and probably would have gone over the whole episode at bedtime.

my whole intention would be to make sure that happened only one time and was NEVER repeated again. right from when my dd was 6 months old i started labeling things 'hot' that were hot as she could touch it it was tangible. and i also used the word dangerous. right from then to now at almost 3 she knows when i call something dangerous there is no negotiating. she cannot touch it, play with it or repeat it ever again. today sometimes she assesses the situation and asks me if it is dangerous. and i ask her why she thinks so. sometimes she is bang on target sometimes she's not.

[lauraess]

Uhhh don't want to be mean or snarky but... your sil may be a bit to syrupy and perhaps may find this method not working... hopefully before the kids are teens.
~L

[txgal]

I just have to add in here that although she makes what I considered mistakes like this, overall SIL is an excellent mother. (I don't think you were saying otherwise) Just wanted to put that out in the universe. It is because of her that I did not circumcise, cosleep, cloth diaper and GD (although in a different way) I think it is interesting to note that she is a Kindergarten teacher and definetly uses the stern voice in her classroom. In retrospect the issues with the kids may be more driven by guilt. My brother is in the army and away in Iraq for the second year in the last 3, she is left home with 3 children (9, 5, and 3) with a fourth on the way anyday, things are a bit overwhelming for her I am sure. Again I am not offended by anything said, just wanted to put that out there, thoughts?

[lauraess]

You are definately blessed to have this person in your life that steered you in the direction of non circ. and such. I also will point out that you are very sweet to be loyal to her and not so judgemental as I was. It points out that we dont always know what we think we do and maybe she is right in her tone? who really knows? Right now, the kids arent listening to me for anything and i'm at my wits end
Maybe using a sweet sweet tone would work?
~L

[Dal]

I very rarely use what is called a "serious tone of voice." It might more properly called something different because seriousness is a bit inaccurate. Seriousness is what is used during, e.g., a professional speech. Seriousness is not bothersome. The reason the tone bothers many is because it is something else -- maybe angry, stern, domineering? I'm not sure which best captures what I'm trying to say. Perhaps all of them and some others.

I can't help but use a louder, concerned voice (that is also most definitely serious) when Simon is grabbing the dog and causing her pain. I'll say "Let go! That is hurting her! You need to let go!" while I help him to let go of her if he isn't doing it himself.

My problem with the stern, authoritarian voice (hey, there's another way of describing it!) is akin to some of the reasons Kohn-like thinkers give against punishment and praise. It is manipulative. It assumes that he needs to be trained. Overall, it just makes me really dang uncomfortable. My skin crawl when I hear my dad speak like that to his dog. I would not talk to Simon in that way. The loud voice I do use is different than the one that offends me. It is authentic. The use of a stern voice (e.g.) "No! Shoes don't go on the table!" simply because the child is doing something harmless that the parent disapproves of is contrived and soooo unpleasant to hear. I wouldn't want to be at the receiving end of that, or even in the same room. I think that if the situation is serious enough that a loud voice is warranted, it shouldn't be contrived but come naturally. The raising of voice in this case is used to get attention very quicky and has the natural result of clearly indicating that the action in question is dangerous or whatever.

When Simon is doing something that is bothering me but not dangerous or harming anyone, I do NOT say, "Oh mumsy womsy doesn't like when dae deee dooo does that. Pwease stop umsy." This is an insulting take on AP/GD. Rather, I matter of factly let him know what is going on and physically redirect him if need be. Sometimes I use playfulness too.

I don't feign a slight dose of anger in order to manipulate him to do as I want him to do.

[annab]

Dal--I agree. However, I think MOST parents don't need to feign anger. When I am angry, I work to keep it toned down. I think the super-sweet, saccharin tone is just as manipulative. I think it is using love as a tool against kids. It implies that if you don't stop what you are doing, this tone could change at any moment into a snarling, teeth-bearing roar. I think any parent would be genuinely freaked out if their kid was doing something life-threatening. I would not choke back my stressed-out voice of concern to pull out the sweet stuff, ya know?

On the other hand, a mom knows her kid. Maybe for some kids that sing-songy tone works. If my kid is trying to shave the dog, I would be alarmed, and my voice would reflect that.

[lauraess]

Originally Posted by annab

If my kid is trying to shave the dog, I would be alarmed, and my voice would reflect that.

Im sorry, now that one i'd have to be TRYING to be stern-ish!
~L

[nyveronica]

Something that has been really effective with my 5 y/o dd is giving her a firm, even-toned "alert" of: Do you hear my voice changing when I'm speaking to you?

Both dh and myself employ this method when we are feeling ourselves pushed to the brink and it gives us and dd a chance to take a deep breath and understand that some lines are being crossed that neither one of us care to.

[Dal]

annab, I agree with you. I don't use or advocate the use of saccharin-type responses or that type of mumsy womsy talk at all. My mom uses something like that with Simon and I find it condescending.

[Dragonfly]

Originally Posted by Dal

When Simon is doing something that is bothering me but not dangerous or harming anyone, I do NOT say, "Oh mumsy womsy doesn't like when dae deee dooo does that. Pwease stop umsy." This is an insulting take on AP/GD. Rather, I matter of factly let him know what is going on and physically redirect him if need be. Sometimes I use playfulness too.

I don't feign a slight dose of anger in order to manipulate him to do as I want him to do.

Respectfully, I think you're misinterpreting what I was saying (and I'm assuming you're responding to me, at least in part, as you used a similar example to mine). My point was exactly the same as yours. When I used "stern" in my description, I meant exactly what you're describing as your "loud, authentic" voice. I was not saying to feign concern or anger in order to manipulate a child. On the contrary, I think a non-authentic voice is manipulation. My point was that concern and anger are real and a child should be aware of them. It's not behaviorism; it's honesty.

Just to be clear: It seems as though you're taking offense based on a different definition/perception of a term when, in reality, you're saying the same thing.

[Piglet68]

given the stresses your sil is under i think she is superwoman to not have raised her voice! lol. frankly, i'm raising my tone with dd far too often lately, and i hate myself for it. but i guess that's a different thread.

[kaydee]

Originally Posted by Dragonfly

On the contrary, I think a non-authentic voice is manipulation. My point was that concern and anger are real and a child should be aware of them. It's not behaviorism; it's honesty.
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