Others Spanking DC

[ExuberantDaffodil]

I know this topic has probably been brought up over and over again, but I am at a bit of a loss.

Background: I'm a single mommy to the best baby in the world He is a sweet, goodnatured, happy baby boy. I recently moved in with my sister and BIL, who had a baby in May. My sister and I are pretty close, but occasionally we have communication problems. We were raised in a family who believed in harsh dicipline - i.e. whipped with a belt until the bad attitude/behavior was "broken" - we grew up with lots of bruises. Since having my DS, I've read about 5 parenting books on attachment parenting and GD. I follow many of the guidelines of GD and they pretty much work - we have our bad days, but DS is doing really well.

The Problem: My sister watches DS two days a week while I work. I got home from work last week and my sister looked at me very seriously and said, "M had to have a spanking today." I was floored - speechless for a moment, so my sister went on to describe DS's "bad" behavior that warranted the spanking. To me, it was nothing that even came close to justifying hitting. When he gets into something that he is not supposed to get into, I usually say, "That's not for playing. Here, this toy is for playing" or if he hits/bites, I say, "No hit. Hitting hurts mommy" in a really sad, serious tone. Honestly, I can tell DS knows when he is not supposed to do something. He responds very well to these methods. I was too angry to go into a detailed explaination of my parenting beliefs with my sister, but I did say, "And just how is hitting supposed to correct the problem? You only taught my son that hitting is OK, and I have been working so hard with him to teach him hitting is not OK!" Her response was that my DS was acting like a "brat" and needed dicipline. I had to remove myself from the situation because I was seriously livid.

The Solution: ??? What do you do when someone else hits/spanks your child?! I tried to take into account that my sister is exhausted, taking care of her newborn and my toddler. I tried to take into consideration the way we were brought up. I don't want to start any fights with my sister since we live together, but spanking is NOT ok with me - especially for something like getting into my BIL's DVDs, which are a huge temptation for DS as they are right at knee level to him and just out in the open. (I know already my sister won't read any of my GD books. She already makes a little fun of me for extended breastfeeding and getting excited over my new organic hemp babysling).

*sigh*

[boongirl]

Oh my! How horrible! Is there any way you can find another living situation? If you can't lay down the law and tell your sister to never hit your child, under any circumstances, then moving out is your best bet. For your child's well being.
I can't think of anything else to do but send you an internet hug.

[IdentityCrisisMama]

That must be very difficult because I’m sure you depend on and appreciate the help with your child. I know that I would make a 100% non-negotiable rule about hitting. I would probably not be able to resist threats to move out even though that probably wouldn’t be all that helpful.

What you could do is sit down and talk to her. Be careful not to imply that hitting is less wrong in your eyes for bigger offences. Be careful to imply that hitting is wrong only because it doesn’t discourage the behavior or because it teaches him to hit.

It’s just wrong. In fact, maybe just saying that very simply to her would be a good idea. “Do not hit my child. Ever.”

[Plummeting]

It is not acceptable for someone to hit your child. Period. IMO, you have to do whatever is necessary to stop it from ever happening again. If that means she's not alone with your son, then so be it. If that means you have to find a new place to live, then make it happen. I'm not trying to sound harsh because I honestly understand how near to impossible either of those things might be. *However*, by putting your son in situations in which others will hit him, you are teaching him that:

1. Hitting is okay
2. Mommy won't hit me, but she must not think it's bad because she lets other people hit me
3. Mommy won't protect me from other people who hit me, so I can't depend on her

I am sooooooo sorry that happened to you! If you have a serious talk with your sister will she openly continue to spank him, continue to spank him and refuse to admit it to you or agree to never spank him again? If the answer is anything but the last option, you really, really have to find a way for her to never be alone with him again. Your poor DS! He must be so sad! And how stressful that must be for you! Don't worry - you will find some solution, I'm sure of it!

[Arduinna]

ITA with all that has been posted. I am so sorry you are going through this. I was a single mommy when dd was a baby and toddler and lived with my mom who had very different parenting ideas than I did. Luckily she understood I was the mom and learned by example how I handled things. If after talking with your sister you don't trust that she will never hit your child again I would move or at least find other child care until you can.

[ExuberantDaffodil]

Thanks everyone.

This is difficult for me on so many levels. I recently moved in with my sister and BIL because I simply could not afford to live on my own any more; besides, it seemed like such a wonderful idea to help each other out with our babies. I want to avoid daycare because the ones I could come close to liking are way out of my budget, and the ones in my budget are just plain icky.

I know in my heart I need to sit down with my sister and nonconfrontationally lay the ground rules for my son. She is offended so easily - she's defensive and hyper-competitive. The problem lies in finding the right words to use with her. When I try too hard to be "nice" she brushes me off. When I get all up in her face upset, she goes on the rampage and a backlash of arguements ensue.

Thanks for the support, mommies.

[mamaduck]

I would start out gentle, and if that is not effective -- I would "lay down the law" only as a last resort approach. I would start out by saying, "Its really important to me that my son has a good relationship with his aunt. You are not his mother -- you are an aunt, and you will always play a very special role in his life. That role should not include spanking or hitting. I want to ask you as a sister, please promise you won't raise your hand to him again. I would much prefer that you bring any behavior problems to my attention, and let me discipline the way that I see fit. You know I am open to disscussing anything that worries you."

If she can agree to that line of reasoning, then you will have saved yourself a fight.

If not -- you can always get firmer and speak in terms of "ground rules." I don't believe it is technically even LEGAL for her to hit your child, so that might be a useful thing to determine at some point.

Good luck.

[ExuberantDaffodil]

Originally Posted by mamaduck

I would start out gentle, and if that is not effective -- I would "lay down the law" only as a last resort approach. I would start out by saying, "Its really important to me that my son has a good relationship with his aunt. You are not his mother -- you are an aunt, and you will always play a very special role in his life. That role should not include spanking or hitting. I want to ask you as a sister, please promise you won't raise your hand to him again. I would much prefer that you bring any behavior problems to my attention, and let me discipline the way that I see fit. You know I am open to disscussing anything that worries you."

If she can agree to that line of reasoning, then you will have saved yourself a fight.

If not -- you can always get firmer and speak in terms of "ground rules." I don't believe it is technically even LEGAL for her to hit your child, so that might be a useful thing to determine at some point.

Good luck.

THANK YOU!! That is a wonderful approach.

***UPDATE***

I chatted very briefly on the phone with my sister this afternoon. She seemed to understand.

When I called her again about an hour later, she related that my DS had walked up to her and smacked her very hard on the leg when she said he couldn't have something. (I was thinking, see? you showed the boy how to hit! : ) She got upset over his hitting her, but she *proudly* told me she didn't *spank* him, but instead put him in his crib for time out for five minutes. He is not even 14 months old yet.

I can see this is going to be an interesting obsticle to overcome.

[captain optimism]

I like what you said to her about trying to teach him that hitting is not okay, and that spanking models the behavior you are trying to stop.

I also like telling her that you don't want her to hit because you want him to have an especially good relationship with her.

If you wind up having to escalate, then tell her also that if he were in a child care situation with someone who was not a relative, and that person hit him, that you would pull him out of that child care and seek legal recourse against the provider. But maybe that won't be necessary.

[boongirl]

Oh, time outs for 14 mos! Can you give her a list of acceptable ways to deal with behavior she does not like. Brainstorm with her?

Btw: I have never hit my dd and I never hit the pets and she just smacked me this am when I took over the couch from her (we are both under the weather). Sometimes, it just happens when they are frustrated. But, that does not mean it is ok to hit a child. Just an fyi.

[mamaduck]

Ideally, I agree that a time out is a poor approach as well. However -- if a babysitter felt inclined to smack my child, I would much prefer they stick him in his crib and take 5 minutes to cool down (or even 10 minutes) before going in to interact with him. ESPECIALLY considering your upbringing, and your sisters upbringing. While walking away and taking some "space" might not be the most ideal response, it may well be the best thing that SHE could do in the situation at this point in her journey. Does that make any sense?

[WonderWild]

That's such a hard situation to be in. Hugs to you. I hope talking to her will work. If it were me though, I would not be comfortable to leave him with her anymore. Have you looked at in-home day-care instead of a center? Those are usually cheaper. Good luck.

[ExuberantDaffodil]

Originally Posted by mamaduck

Ideally, I agree that a time out is a poor approach as well. However -- if a babysitter felt inclined to smack my child, I would much prefer they stick him in his crib and take 5 minutes to cool down (or even 10 minutes) before going in to interact with him. ESPECIALLY considering your upbringing, and your sisters upbringing. While walking away and taking some "space" might not be the most ideal response, it may well be the best thing that SHE could do in the situation at this point in her journey. Does that make any sense?

It makes a lot of sense. I would much rather she put him in time out than spank him, and I could tell she was trying to honor my wishes, which in my opinion is a good sign. I definitely agree with PP about sitting down and brainstorming ideas about what to do in those situations. I really, really wish she would read one or two of the books I've found to be so helpful in my approach - at least puruse them, but I have a feeling I'm out of luck with that.

Once again, thank you all so much for your support. It makes bumpy times like these so much easier to get through. I know my sister loves my DS so much and would never intentionally hurt him, and it is very hard to break away from how one's parents diciplined - I know, I've been really, really working on it.

[Thursday Girl]

hi just wanted to let you know that I know what you are going through. Mostly. My twin sister just spanked my daughter this weekend. well she slapped her hand and I told her not to hit my child. Then not 5 minutes later we were going to the car and my arms were full. Jewely ran off, I called for her to stop, she did not. My sister ran to get her and then SPANKED her again. right after I told her not to. well then I told her that we don't spank. Now I am lucky in that i don't live with my sister and I told her that if she doesn't respect Chris and My wishes then she would not be allowed to see her. well she has agreed not to spank her anymore. althoughn she did add a quip about how when I discipline Jewely laughs at me (she only does laugh when she's hurt me and I tell her she hurt mommy) and that i was going to be like mom and let my kids walk all over me. Blah blah blah. we were also raised in a hitting family. no belts (just the threat of one), and as I got older it turned into kicking instead of spankings. Yuck! so if you ever want to talk about sisters and such just pm me. I see you live in Florida like me (although florida is a pretty big state).

although I have to say I am impressed that your sister listened to you and wanted to follow your wishes. My sister has continuosley ignored my requests about my daughter since she was born.

Courtney

[MrsMoe]

I know your situation is touchy, but this is YOUR child and nobody has the right to hit or use physical punishment on your child if you say not to.

[Cleopatra]

Your situation sounds very difficult, but is there any way to find different child-care arrangements for your son? Even though she has promised not to spank him, her thinking a five minute time out for a child this young would "teach" him something also reflects a real lack of knowledge re. normal child development. She needs to be educated on some things before her own child gets older, but in the meantime your child should not be bearing the brunt of her ignorance. Does she believe what your parents did to the two of you was good and right? If so that is another major problem as she well may resort to using harsher and harsher techniques when she doesn't get the desired response. I would encourage you to supervise ALL interactions between your sister and your son but still try to maintain a healthy relationship with her. Since it sounds like she doesn't take advice well from you, do you have any friends with kids who you could introduce her to? She might be more willing to learn from watching other people besides you parent their children and deal with discipline....hopefully before her own baby gets to the age of needing discipline.

[PikkuMyy]

Asking someone who's overwhelmed with a newborn to read books that she thinks are a waste of time isn't going to work. What might work, though, is picking out some really big key points that make up GD and just giving her a one-page summary of what GD is and why (and most importantly, how!) you do it.

[Raven67]

What a difficult situation. The financial strain must be very tough. I have to say I feel very upset reading about your sister. She seems to have no idea of what normal behavior for a baby/child is. Hitting, touching things, exploring, are all normal behaviors at this age. It's all about redirection at this age, not discipline, and certainly not punishment. Even thinking that she needs to discipline a fourteen month old is misguided. She clearly takes his behavior personally and thinks he can control himself more than possible. It sounds like some of the fall-out from your abusive childhood, because unrealistic expectations are very common among abusive parents. This is not a good situation at all. I hope you can find some other solution. If you can't, your talk with your sister needs to start with a basic understanding of normal toddler behavior. Your son is much too young for you to even be talking about discipline. She needs to just distract, supervise, and redirect him. It is much easier to yell, shame, hit and punish, so this is going to be an uphill battle for you.

[annab]

I am sorry you are in such a difficult situation. I second the OPs who suggested different finding other childcare. To be with your own toddler 24/7 is exhausting; being with someone else's is even harder. Maybe she needs a break? I know several people who have had luck finding sitters through churches, especially for a couple days a week. I am sure that there is a grandmotherly figure out there somewhere who would be able to help you out, if you can find her.

I echo the earlier points: Someone else hitting your child is NEVER OK, and in my state, I know that it is prosecutable, though I don't know that anyone has ever done it. I cannot imagine what your baby must have thought when it happened. I hope you find a workable solution.

[meemee]

what really comes across in ur post is that ur sister has no concept of age appropriate behaviour. can you have her read a basic book on that. like what to expect type of book since she is listening to u. check with ur hospital and see if they offer a parenting package that ur sister should have got. the ones in CA actually come with a fairly decent video.

maybe its wrong of me to assume that but i cant understand how someone would choose to spank if they understood why the child behaves that way. i think ur sister is looking at ur son as a miniature adult and therefore expects certain behaviour. but if she were to look at him struggling to figure out the world, what is socially acceptable, that NONE of his actions are malicious maybe she will change her mind about spanking.

it will be interesting to see how she does with her child at ur son's age. what she has learnt from u.

personally i would find it really, really hard living with someone whose parenting style is so different from you - no matter what the connection.