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Preschoolers on the Computer  

post #1 of 35
Thread Starter 
I hope it's okay to post this here. I want perspectives from mothers with children of differing ages and also I'm planning on homeschooling so we're on the same page in that aspect.

My dd is 2.5 and she has recently learned how to use the mouse well enough to open her favorite website (from our bookmark toolbar) and maneuver around it. While I'm excited that she has developed her motor skills well enough to do this, I don't know what to think about her getting into the habit of being on the computer, especially so young. The site is www.uptoten.com and is basically lots of songs and games for toddlers. She sit on the computer anywhere from 5 to 25 minutes playing by herself multiple times during the day.

We are a nearly tv-free household but this computer thing has me confused. I know the computer is a wonderful resource and has much more to offer than mindless entertainment. I'm worried about computer usage getting out of hand though and possibly even leading to an obsession with fruitless video games.

Should I just let this continue or should I try and curtail dd's efforts?
post #2 of 35
I don't know if this is any consolation or not. But my son became an avid computer user at about the same age, around 2 and a half. And while he inititally wanted to use the computer for ages, he abruptly lost interest one day. It's like he got what he wanted out of it or mastered something and then he didn't need it anymore. He's 4 now and he's rarely interested in the computer and hasn't been so "into it" for over a year. We don't do video games here either. I used to be worried that the early computer use would be the road to gaming.

Anyway, at the time, we did limit his usage, usually to about an hour per sitting. And sometimes it wasn't always pleasant, because 2yos are all about instant gratification. But while I'm sure it was great for his fine motor skills and while it was "educational" (noggin.com), he'd get this glazed over look when he'd play with it. We just didn't think a toddler needed to be on a computer for more than one hour, so we would set the timer on the microwave and let him know when it was getting close to that time. The timer helped him a great deal with transitioning.

Additionally, we had to be careful not to leave it on, because he would use it in passing. And since he didn't know how to find his program like your daughter, he would simply launch OUR programs. So, that might be something to keep an eye out for. My husband had to remove the icon to his violent video game off the desk top, because ds launched and started the game more than once on his own.

Anyway, as I said, he has very little interest in the computer now and I just don't even remember the last time he used it. While we let him use it for periods of time, we chose not to encourage it by buying additional games or gaming systems (including LeapFrog). I'm saying this because you said that you were media-free. We are not media-free, but we are a very low media use household. So, my husband, who is a computer programmer funnily enough, felt really strongly about not buying him any games or Leapfrog stuff, anything that was like a computer. He figured that noggin dot com would eventually become boring and ds would move on. I could see where he was coming from, so I agreed.

And here we are at 4...he still has great fine motor skills and he's a bright kid, but the compter thing has passed and he hasn't suffered for it. Dh recently showed him a NASA site with an interactive planet model and while ds1 loves to use it sometimes, YK he doesn't really ask to get on the computer. He's able to use it when he needs something and not get stuck in that mode.

I just wanted to post about life on the other side. And I wanted to apologize in advance, because I was abruptly woken up over a poopy diaper and I'm so not awake yet. :LOL

Good luck!
post #3 of 35
My 6 yr old is computer-free. But we are also kinda Waldorf-y around here. As a family, we've been on the internet since 1995, but the older kids were around 9/10 when they started using the computer. Maybe that's because I hog it...

But seriously, Jane Healy's work had a lot to do with this decision. We have also never owned a 'game system'. Yes, an American family with 4 children, two of whom are teens (Happy B'day to my oldest dd) without Nintendo, Xbox etc.

(We do have a Gameboy for travel, however).

Anyway...I'm no help, am I? :LOL

We're so completely imperfect here... A little of this, none of that...so, so gray...
post #4 of 35
Both of my dc were early and avid computer users, operating the mouse well by about 20 months. I only ever had them use educational cd roms, not the internet.

Ds nearly 7, can use the net now, but he has to ask beforehand as we have set it up requiring a password to connect, and he researches topics that he is interested in with dh or myself assisting. This is to make sure that he is able to find what he is looking for, we talk about using good keywords etc, as well as to keephim away fromaccidently accessing inappropriate sites.

I think it is great, it has been a fantastic learning resourse that is also entertaining. There is nothing wrong with the computer, it's a tool and it's all about how you use it.
post #5 of 35
I think computers are a great educational resource. Use your judgement about the games/ programs/ websites. If it seems like mindless entertainment, don't allow it. If it teaches something in a clever/ meaningful way, allow it. My 3 y.o. uses starfall.com for long stretches of time. If our CD rom drive were working I'd let her use some of the educational CDs we have.
post #6 of 35
We too are almost TV-free, and I too have been a little confused by the computer thing. My eldest began using the computer at 2.5, as have my middle two kids. Strangely enough my youngest, who turns 2.5 on Monday, isn't interested yet. But I suspect she will be soon.

What concerns me most about the computer, besides its anti-social properties, is just how shallow the learning is. So much of the educational (i.e. "good") stuff on the computer is binary in nature -- there are no shades of gray, and the object is to click the right things so that the right results occur. Illustrations are flat and cartoonish, the colours are bright and primary, the screens change quickly and games are filled with rewards and scorekeeping and canned "Yay, you got it right!" voices that have nothing to do with a real person.To me this sort of exposure promotes simplistic learning where the object is to choose the right rather than the wrong answer. Exploration occurs within an extremely limited range of options. Creativity is limited to choosing the wrong answer on purpose.

In the real rather than the virtual world, life and learning aren't like that. When you do something, the results are sometimes unpredictable. Things aren't just black and white but filled with shades of gray. Sometimes you can't really tell that A goes with B, and sometimes, for whatever reasons, A goes with C instead. That rich unpredictability and infinite world of possibilities is something I don't want squeezed out of my kids' learning lives.

I tried to get around this by choosing creativity-driven software for my kids. For a long while KidPix was the main program the kids had. We bought it when my eldest was 2 1/2 (and upgraded 3 years ago or so) and the kids, now 11, 8 and 6, still rate it in their top five favourite programs - that's nine years straight! We have a lot of simulation-style games where there are so many variables that there is the appearance of a shades-of-gray virtual reality. The other big thing that gives me a degree of comfort is that they use the computer socially most of the time, two or three of them playing co-operatively, discussing what they want to do, generating ideas. I also see some positive use of the computer for learning and creating: my eldest two use word processors for creative writing and study music theory using a computer-based program much more avidly than they did the pencil-and-paper program they were originally assigned, and I really like the use that the Rosetta Stone second-language software has got around here.

My approach with TV has been to not restrict viewing time, but to model sensible use, provide interesting alternatives and encourage my kids to do the same, and the result has been an almost TV-free existence where the TV often doesn't come on from one week to the next. I'd hoped the same would be true with the computer. But the modelling of good computer-use habits by the parental units is much more challenging , and I confess my kids are computer addicts .

Recently they decided to try using WatchDogPC to set themselves some limits. One kid chose 30 minutes on, then at least a 30 minute break. One chose a 3-hour per day limit. Another had a combination approach. It lasted 3 days and then they began circumventing the controls to de-limit their play. (Not that I couldn't use the software to unilaterally prevent them from doing that, but I'm trying to be a non-coercive parent -- and I keep thinking that this is a prime opportunity for them to learn to set their own limits.)

So... the computer is a big problem here, and it began with some innocent mousing about at age 2.5. I can't predict the same for you; clearly others have had different experiences, but this is ours. Having said all this, my kids are quite physically active outdoors most days, they are terrific, well-behaved, empathic kids, they're accomplished musicians and have a myriad of other talents -- so they haven't been "ruined" by all this computer time. But I regret the slide down the slippery slope into computer addiction.

Miranda

(whose 8yo made $35 busking with his viola at the market yesterday and immediately spent it on "the Titans" upgrade for "Age of Mythology")
post #7 of 35
DD1 is four and loves playing on the computer. I do have to limit her time, because she'll start getting really fussy if she's on it too long. She knows how to insert whatever cd she wants to play, or how to open the program she wants (Paint is one of her favorites, so I put it on my desktop for her) and does it all by herself. I try not to think of it as educational, but more as entertainment, even though she has learned a lot from some of them.


I had to edit, after reading the post immediately above mine... While some games are like you describe, not all of them are. We have a few (that are geared towards older kids, granted, but my 4yo loves them) that are much better than others. We even have some programs that aren't really for children at all, but that she enjoys anyway. We have a human anatomy interactive cd-rom that is really cool. But I do agree with you, some of those "educational" games are no different than leap frog and similar products (which I absolutely detest).
post #8 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by UUMom
But seriously, Jane Healy's work had a lot to do with this decision.
Wasn't the name of this book "Failure to Connect"?

It influenced me as well. I discourged computer use in my kids when they were very young but they weren't completely computer free, either. I didn't want it to become a kind of forbidden fruit. (I'm always looking for balance.)

In my previous life I worked in software development. Spending a lot of time at a computer is very hard on your body -- it is hard on your wrists and eyes. I think that these are even bigger concerns for children who are not the right size for either the workstation or keyboard and whose vision is still developing.

For such a young child, I think 30 minutes of screen time (either TV or computer) is plenty.
post #9 of 35
We have basically unlimited (with the understanding that others want to use the computer too, so please take turns) computer and TV usage. We find it to be a wonderful resource, and both my son and I are on for at least a couple hours a day usually.
post #10 of 35
My 6 yr old has never once expressed an interest in the computer...never once in 6 years. If she did, I'd not have a problem with her, at 6, going on. She has also never asked about Nintendo or Gameboy either, even though she's seen those things and we own a gameboy. It's not an area of interest to her.

Healy has several books. Before she even published a book, we'd read her work. I esp love her book Endangered Minds.

We don't forbid anything here, and 'Forbidden fruit' isn't an issue for us. Which is probably partly due to our belief there is a lot of world out there for kids without media and computers in toddlerhood or young childhood. I have a lot of thoughts about natural childhood, and sitting down playing a computer game, or watching TV isn't part of that belief system. But it doesn't follow that my children haven't been exposed.

However, it is true that they spend less time watching TV or playing on the computer than the majority of other North American children. Which isn't a concern to me.
post #11 of 35
We were going to wait until DD1 was 6 or 7, but she's an early and avid reader and, with the exception of 2 or 3 hours a week of nature DVD's, watches no TV. She has an active social life and gets plenty of downtime to fill however she wishes. She has plenty of one-on-one time with both DH and myself. She wants to write, but doesn't have the fine motor control to do so without great frustration. Given that, we decided to permit limited computer usage. She does email, Rosetta Stone, Bejeweled and a bridge program with daddy (there's nothing like hearing your 3yo yell, "No-trump, no-trump!" We also allow 1/2 hour of a Magic School Bus game at the library one or twice a week.

I'd reconsider if it became a long term barrier to getting her out of the house. So far there have been no problems.
post #12 of 35
I'm another who has been heavily influenced by Jane Healey--I was already in that direction intuitively, before reading her stuff, but her books really reinforced how I felt. My kiddos don't watch TV and I might once every couple months show my older dd something fun I come across for her to do on the computer for 10 minutes or so, but that's the extent of it. This has worked very well for us--they haven't missed it, and neither TV nor the computer have had forbidden fruit status for them so far.
post #13 of 35
Ds is an avid computer user. He has some special needs and learns and functions differently from other kids. He can hardly talk, but he can read. The computer has been wonderful for him. He enjoys websites like pbskids.org and starfall.com He also enjoys the occasional educational software that we pic up or that his speech therapist loans him. He has learned things on his own in his own way from the computer that I never could have taught him. I tend to try to teach the way I learn best, and maybe one or two other ways, but on the computer he can find lots of other formats for learning. I wouldn't let him do it all day every day, but I don't mind letting him use the computer some times.
post #14 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by moominmamma
So much of the educational (i.e. "good") stuff on the computer is binary in nature -- there are no shades of gray, and the object is to click the right things so that the right results occur. Illustrations are flat and cartoonish, the colours are bright and primary, the screens change quickly and games are filled with rewards and scorekeeping and canned "Yay, you got it right!" voices that have nothing to do with a real person.
This is true, but, this can also be a benefit when learning things that require rote memorization, like numbers, math facts, phonics. DS learned to read on the computer by himself, and DD is learning now too. I like how it assists independent learning-- as long as they like it too. One of my DC isn't into the comuter much.
post #15 of 35
We try to avoid too much screen time, for all the reasons posted here.

I look at it this way- I can see plenty of disadvantages of too much computer time, and no real advantages to getting him hooked on the computer.
post #16 of 35
[QUOTE=meowee]This is true, but, this can also be a benefit when learning things that require rote memorization, like numbers, math facts, phonics. /QUOTE]

OK, but we're talking about a 2.5 year old here. I don't even see that many "mainstream" educational sources arguing the importance of a toddler gaining computer skills.
post #17 of 35
I have an almost 5 year old, and while she has been on the computer with dh in the past, her using the computer is not something I'm jumping at right now. She's not at an age yet where she can use it as a research tool, and I'm not such a big fan of all these electronic learning toys (such as leap pad).

Quote:
I think computers are a great educational resource. Use your judgement about the games/ programs/ websites. If it seems like mindless entertainment, don't allow it. If it teaches something in a clever/ meaningful way, allow it.
I don't really agree with all of this. I don't agree that all play needs to be "educational." There is a time and a place from "mindless entertainment" imo. I'm not big on kids watching tv either, but at the same time, it's hard to not roll my eyes a little when someone snobbily declares, "yes, my children watch some tv, but ONLY the educational programs."

Quote:
This is true, but, this can also be a benefit when learning things that require rote memorization, like numbers, math facts, phonics.
Ack! What are you trying to do me?!?! Just smack me in the head, why don't cha? Rote memorization of math facts??? As a math person, this makes my heart heavy.
post #18 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by umbrella
Ack! What are you trying to do me?!?! Just smack me in the head, why don't cha? Rote memorization of math facts??? As a math person, this makes my heart heavy.
:LOL I had the same feeling ... and about phonics too. My kids learned phonetic decoding and long division, and math and reading, just fine without rote memorization.

Miranda
post #19 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by moominmamma
:LOL I had the same feeling ... and about phonics too. My kids learned phonetic decoding and long division, and math and reading, just fine without rote memorization.

Miranda
My mother saved all my report cards from elementary school. In flipping through them, I saw that my third grade report said that I needed to work more on memorizing my times tables. I hated math, because it was presented from a memorization stand-point and I never did end up "getting it". My dh is like Mr. Math and I don't think he's memorized all his times tables at 32 years of age. A few months ago, he taught me how to do mental math. I can't multiply in my head; if it's not stored in form of a times-table memorization in my head, then I can't do it. Thanks to him, now I multiply other numbers in my head with all his little logical short-cuts. I wish someone had taught that to me in elementary school, rather than insisting I memorize and recite times-tables.

As for adding and subtracting, I don't understand why those require memorization. I've never memorized sums. You just do them enough times that it sticks in your head.

Also, I always read several grade levels above my own and I never memorized phonics rules. I'm not sure how I learned to read (it was in kindy), but I always hated phonics. I read at the top of my class and pretty much failed most of my phonics quizzes in elementary school; I kind of refused to "learn" them *blush*, because it seemed really dull and painful. I always found that kind of ironic, that I read at the level I did and yet I couldn't pass a phonics quiz.

I'm sure there are many ways of learning this things. I'm sure memorization works well for some people, but I wouldn't say it's the way to go or the only way to do it.

As for the computer stuff, when my toddler was a "user" :LOL, he did learn some useful things, but I'm sure he would have gotten them in real life anyway. He always liked "pigeon patterns" (we maxed that sucker out and ended up with a bug on the 12th round or something), the Maisy game where you ID the first letter in the word, and "who has more?". Actually, I'm sure he learned, "more" and "less" from the computer, but again, these are easily learned IRL.
post #20 of 35
~~Actually, I'm sure he learned, "more" and "less" from the computer, but again, these are easily learned IRL.~~

Siblings who want your cookies (homebaked, organic with no sugar, of course) teach this in about 2 seconds. :LOL
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