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I've made a decision

post #1 of 50
Thread Starter 
I know that most will not agree but I have decided to schedule a repeat c-section (I have had two previous c-sections). There are many, many reasons but I feel this is the best decision for me. I don't want people to think it is from lack of birth support because I actually haven't heard back yet from the Ottawa midwives, I just had to really soul search and think about what the important thing is to me. I am posting this here instead of just walking away and not talking about it because I refuse to be ashamed for my choice. If people judge me for that then so be it. I wish you all blessings in all your births - no matter how they happen. And I look forward to the next 18 years of RAISING my new baby-to-be, as that is really the important part.
post #2 of 50
Honestly, if anyone is going to judge you for having an elective repeat c-section, then they need do some soul searching of their own. It's no ones decision but yours. You don't have to justify your reasons or give any details, the fact that you know you have choices, and you have weighed your options, and made a choice, shows you are informed on your decision. I think the problem that most woman on here have is that woman just choose a c-section for it's 'convience' or they are ignorant as to their choices/options.

Good luck with your pregnancy!
post #3 of 50
Good for you. It's a tough decision - one that I recently had to make myself - I beat myself up enough about it, until my dh put it all into perspective for me. No judgements here - congrats and good luck!
post #4 of 50
I think it's great that you've been able to make the decision - sometimes I wish I was at an emotional place to do the same. You seem to be at peace with it, so who cares what anybody else thinks about it? I might have done the same thing, except that I know one of the reasons I've had trouble dealing with my second section is the feeling that it wasn't necessary and I should have stood up for myself...so I'm doing it now, instead.

I wish you all the best with your c-section, and your new baby.
post #5 of 50
I hope that you don't feel that I'm judging you because I'm truly not. Because, TBH, I don't believe that c/s is the worst on the spectrum of traumatic birth. I think that a great deal of the medicalized vaginal births taking place in the US are far worse. I, personally, allowed medicos to cut me rather than screwing a monitor into my baby's scalp and pulling him out with forceps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavenly
And I look forward to the next 18 years of RAISING my new baby-to-be, as that is really the important part.
I just don't like to hear of birth, as an experience for the baby, minimized in comparison to other aspects of parenting. Birth is the very first interaction with the world outside the womb, and it does leave an imprint. I will only reference Dr. Verny's work on fetal and infant brain development and recommend his books, Pre-Parenting in particular as a summation of the research (with a 31-page bibliography).

A c/s can have a dramatic impact on the next 18 years of parenting due to interference with bonding (both immediately after birth and during the recovery period) and risk of PPD.

C/S also carries a greater risk of death for a mother, in which case she won't be doing any parenting at all. Nobody bothered to tell me *that* when I was weighing my options after 3 days of fighting with the induction-happy idiots.
post #6 of 50
Heavenly I am so glad you made a decision to pursue the birth you wanted. I am sure it will be a wonderful experience, and I will help you anyway I can.



Kim
post #7 of 50
"A c/s can have a dramatic impact on the next 18 years of parenting due to interference with bonding (both immediately after birth and during the recovery period) and risk of PPD.

C/S also carries a greater risk of death for a mother, in which case she won't be doing any parenting at all. Nobody bothered to tell me *that* when I was weighing my options after 3 days of fighting with the induction-happy idiots."

I want to say that in this forum the impact of bonding during a csection is way over dramatized and exagerated, as it is in the adoption community as well. (and I've done both) With any traumatic birth there is a risk, but contrary to popular belief csections are not all traumatic, they can be wonderful birth experiences, or acceptable birth experiences. Most hospitals have babies with mom post partum and breastfeeding is not halted. While there may be more difficulties for SOME, the chances of this happening are slim. I am not directing this at you, but most the risks and complications of a csection are SMALL, in fact VERY SMALL. I have successfully breastfed four children, all born by csection and one I didn't give birth too. I have had two wonderful cesarean birth experiences.

While there is a risk of death for any abdominal surgery, it is very minimal for a cesarean section, especially with an epidural or spinal. With any birth there is a risk of death -- but very small percentages should not be over dramatized. It just bothers me that rupture rates for VBAC are downplayed as being hardly anything to worry about, but then the same statistical numbers (small percentages) about csections are made to sound horrific.

Lets keep some perspective so that those of us who can't birth vaginally or choose not are not treated like disasters waiting to happen.

Kim
post #8 of 50
I think you are the best person to decide your birth plans. I do wish you a uncomplicated birth and recovery. I do have to comment that I just helped a mom having her 3 baby 2 previous cesereans loose cervix(cerclage stitches in place) . She had them take the stitches out at 36 weeks and no labour? went to 39 weeks 4 cent dialated. The hospital admin calling her on the phone to let her know she was being foolish! She had a nearly pain free birth with the only intervention being breaking her water (her request) and EFM. She birthed beautifully and in awe of her body- she had no faith in!
I would just hope that you would not make a birth plan and instead, let your self go into labour without a plan and see what happens. You can always have a surgical birth! Just let it unfold mamma....no plans....open and believe that birth can go smoothly!
Or know that other womens judgements are not important. You are a baby creator and mother no matter how you give birth.
post #9 of 50
I have to admit that when I see information regarding how C/S moms can't properly bond with their babies it just drives me batty! My C/S daughter, my 2nd born, was brought to me minutes after I was wheeled into recovery - not long after her birth. I was able to introduce her to my family before we all turned in for a well deserved night of sleep! My 1st daughter, in comparison, was born vaginally and was whisked away to the NICU minutes after she was born due to the cord being wrapped tightly around her neck 4 times. Did our bonding suffer - while it may have taken a few hours longer for us to meet and become acquainted, I noticed no difference in my relationship with my girls.
Do I believe for a minute that my 1st born remembers her hours without me in the NICU - not for a minute!
post #10 of 50
I've bonded more thoroughly with both my c-section babies than my sister has with any of hers...all born vaginally. I think bonding is dependent on many, many factors. I do think c-sections can be an obstacle, but there are many other things that can be obstacles to bonding, and if a c-section is the only one, mom and baby will probably be fine.

I will say that I had PPD to some extent with both babies, and I'm quite sure mine was largely, if not totally, related to the surgery. So, I'm sure the sections have affected my parenting to some extent - not by affecting my bonding with my children, but by affecting my relationship with myself while rearing them.
post #11 of 50
I don`t think Heavenly was downplaying birth`s importance at all by focusing on the next 18 years more. For those of us that don`t have the births we always dreamed of we do have to remember to make the best of it & birth is only one day (most of the time) in the big picture.

I planned 2 beautiful and gentle homebirths. Neither one of them happened the way I wanted. Then I had a c/sec and that was the only birth where my baby actually had the gentle welcome I wanted for him. That`s because I made the best of a bad situation. The whole bonding thing is what you make of it. Circumcising a baby and not rooming in & not nursing are much bigger obstacles to bonding than a c/sec could ever be IMO.

Heavenly, all the best to you in your pregnancy & birth!
post #12 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by liseux
I...not rooming in & not nursing are much bigger obstacles to bonding than a c/sec could ever be IMO...
True..but I don't see how c/sec moms do rooming in. I did it with dd, because dh was there with me 24 hours a day. But, he's going to have to come home at nights this time, to look after dd. And, if this is a section, I don't see how anybody can look after the baby for rooming in. I tried with ds, and couldn't even last one night. I couldn't get him out of the bassinet...I could barely stay on my feet long enough to change his diaper...it was just hopeless...
post #13 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by OnTheFence
With any traumatic birth there is a risk, but contrary to popular belief csections are not all traumatic, they can be wonderful birth experiences, or acceptable birth experiences.
Have you asked any babies about that? That's what I'm talking about here - effects of traumatic birth for the baby, not just mom. Babies are learning from, and responding to, their environment from very early in gestation. They can respond to touch at just 8 weeks gestation and the neural pathways for pain are in place by 16 weeks. To relegate birth to just one day in a lifetime is the understatement of the year. It's not just a day, it's THE day.

WRT to how soon one gets to see and hold baby - if one agrees with how birth is portrayed in The Continuum Concept, which is the foundation of attachment parenting as we know it, then one agrees with how important those first moments are that cannot be recovered. Bonding is a subjective thing - how can you miss what you haven't had? I feel like I've bonded with my boys, but I can't know if it would be the same if I had UC with each of them. I believe that, like Dr. Odent has shown that interventions interrupt labor on an involuntary, subconscious level, the birth can also affect one's relationship with a child *even when we don't feel it consciously*.

I'll repeat myself that I'm not looking down on anybody. I, myself, have a lot of making up to do for bad birth experiences. But I'm not going to tell myself that it really doesn't matter in the long run just to make myself feel better. That's like saying "it doesn't really matter what I feed my baby, he's happy and healthy", which is also subjective. Who is to say that any particular child is living up to his/her full potential as a human? I just want women who choose c/s to be honest about what they're giving up in the process, and what their babies are being made to give up and that it *does* matter. That's why the original comment I quoted earlier rubbed me the wrong way.
post #14 of 50
"It's not just a day, it's THE day." Of course it is, but its selling babies short to think that if the day is anything less than home alone birth bliss, then bonding will definitely be affected. Some babies are born very sleepy and then later start to wake up and respond to their moms. They are also programmed to know our smell and voices, so they can make up for lost time quickly.

What about moms whose babies have been in the NICU? Are their kids are totally screwed up now? All 3 of mine have been in the NICU and maybe if the 2 living ones hadn`t been who knows if they`d be better off than they are. All I`m suggesting is to make an imperfect sitaution better, and with the right attitude you can make it a beautiful experience. That`s the kind of thing I`d like my children to learn, that even the best laid plans can go to hell and then you have to get up and work with what you have. Especially on this board, no mom is taking a decision to have a surgical birth lightly. Only expecting the optimal from the optimal experience is a pretty rigid way to live & I would think a good way to set yourself up for disappointment.

Back to the resilience of children and their ability to bounce back from less than perfect beginnings; I once saw a little girl who was adopted from Bangladesh on the playground in my neighborhood. I was amazed by this child, she was only about 3 and she spoke very clearly with a huge vocabulary. She ran and jumped and was very bold. She was also super nice and gentle to smaller kids. I commented on her to her mom, who told me she was adopted when she was 1. When they picked her up she didn`t smile, hadn`t ever smiled, hadn`t vocalized and couldn`t move. All of her muscles were atrophied because she lay on her back all day in an orphanage. These adoptive parents worked with her and bonded with her and now she`s an awesome kid. I have a lot of hope that people as a whole are stronger than we give ourselves credit for, especially children.
post #15 of 50
liseux- that is a beautiful story!
post #16 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crystal_clear
I feel like I've bonded with my boys, but I can't know if it would be the same if I had UC with each of them.
My 3rd birth was unassisted and let me just say that I believe it was rather taumatic for my baby - it certainly was for me. But Im not going to assume that every unexpected UC is traumatic.
post #17 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crystal_clear
Have you asked any babies about that? That's what I'm talking about here - effects of traumatic birth for the baby, not just mom.



"Who is to say that any particular child is living up to his/her full potential as a human? I just want women who choose c/s to be honest about what they're giving up in the process, and what their babies are being made to give up and that it *does* matter. That's why the original comment I quoted earlier rubbed me the wrong way.
If as an adult I cannot remember much before my 1st , possibly 2nd, birthday, I hardly believe that there is a person in the world who can honestly say that they can remember their own birth! I have been told that I surprise my Mom as to what I remember of my childhood so I would imagine that I would consider myself to be equal to what would be normal in most adults!

To imply that my child, who was born by c/s, is any less intelligent because of her method of birth is offensive! Her birth was more peaceful and quiet than my vaginally born daughter, which, in my mind as the mom, was much more traumatic! I would have to guess that the majority of moms that happen upod MDC do not "choose" to have a C/S so to say that they are "giving something up" for their child isn't truly an accurate statement.
JMHO...
post #18 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by liseux
I was amazed by this child, she was only about 3 and she spoke very clearly with a huge vocabulary. She ran and jumped and was very bold. She was also super nice and gentle to smaller kids. I commented on her to her mom, who told me she was adopted when she was 1. When they picked her up she didn`t smile, hadn`t ever smiled, hadn`t vocalized and couldn`t move. All of her muscles were atrophied because she lay on her back all day in an orphanage. These adoptive parents worked with her and bonded with her and now she`s an awesome kid. I have a lot of hope that people as a whole are stronger than we give ourselves credit for, especially children.
I think they are. Back in 1996, three men moved in upstairs from me and my ex. They were a very rough around the edges bunch of party guys. We got along with them really well, and they were all cool with ds - but they were basically a group of wild bachelors who weren't interested in being "tied down".

Well...a few months later, one of them told my son that a couple other kids were going to be staying with him for a while. It turned out that he had two children with his ex-girlfriend - a 2-year-old son and a 1-year-old daughter. She was going into detox and leaving the kids with him. Chris was only going to take them for a few weeks, but while they were staying with him, he noticed things about their behaviour that worried him a lot. Both kids were behind "schedule" developmentally, all the way across the board...they weren't hitting any of the milestones. They would both come close to eating themselves sick if food was available (I suspect they weren't getting enough food at home). The little boy looked to me as though he was probably suffering the effects of FAS. The little girl would curl up on the floor in a fetal position if anybody raised their voice to her....these kids were really traumatized. They were both very edgy and nervous around strangers.

Chris filed for custody. Nobody would call him the ideal parent...he liked to party and he drank too much. But, I watched those kids over the next four years (until we lost contact), and I couldn't believe they were the same children at the end of that time. They both blossomed...became verbal, interactive, affectionate, confident little people. Their dad did that almost single-handedly...just by loving them to bits and letting them know it. It's amazing what kids will bounce back from with enough nurturing...
post #19 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crystal_clear
I'll repeat myself that I'm not looking down on anybody. I, myself, have a lot of making up to do for bad birth experiences. But I'm not going to tell myself that it really doesn't matter in the long run just to make myself feel better. That's like saying "it doesn't really matter what I feed my baby, he's happy and healthy", which is also subjective. Who is to say that any particular child is living up to his/her full potential as a human? I just want women who choose c/s to be honest about what they're giving up in the process, and what their babies are being made to give up and that it *does* matter. That's why the original comment I quoted earlier rubbed me the wrong way.
You know...I've spent 12 years grieving for a c-section that I didn't want and didn't agree to. I ended up with another one that I regret more than I can say, because I allowed myself to be bulldozed. I'm currently holding my ground against policies that don't "allow" VBA2C, and fighting to have one, anyway. And, your above post just about threw me right back into the depression that it took me months, if not years, to shake off. After dealing with extended periods of PPD and PTSD, directly related to my surgeries, it's extremely unhelpful to hear that my children are somehow "damaged goods". Not everybody who gets gutted like a fish chose to have it happen...and many who do choose it do so for very non-trivial reasons.
post #20 of 50
Storm Bride - couldn't have said it better myself!
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