Friend buys into the Ezzo crap and the result is BFing problems. Surprised?

[Wabi Sabi]

After a phone conversation with a friend yesterday, I am even more aware than ever before of how different she and I are. I really feel sorry for her, even though I know that my pity is the absolute last thing that she wants.

We were both pregnant with our sweet sons at the same time. She thought I was crazy for going the homebirthing route, I thought she was crazy for totally buying into the medicalized model of childbirth- she would never dream of questioning anything her OB said. Oh well- we were even. We each thought the other was nuts.

We attended a breastfeeding class together during our pregnancies. She left in tears, almost deciding that she wouldn't BF at all. The idea of her body being available to her baby 24/7 totally freaked her out. She was morally oppossed to the concept of nursing on demand because it would "teach the baby that HE is boss!"

A few weeks later she told me that she had decided to "try" nursing after all. She had just read a WONDERFUL book about how it wasn't necessary to nurse on demand- she could schedule his feedings and therefore the whole concept of nursing became acceptable to her. Yep, she had found Ezzo! : I sent her some information about the Ezzos and I think that it somewhat offended her.

At that point I just dropped it because I didn't want to make it seem like I was playing the good mommy/bad mommy game. I didn't want it to turn into an "I'm right and let me tell you why you're wrong" kind of thing.

We both had a hard time nursing when our sons were actually born. She was ready to quit the day after she got home from the hospital. In an effort to help, I paid for my lactation consultant to do a home visit with her.

Fast foward until now- her ds is six months old and when I spoke to her yesterday she told me she'd decided to quit nursing. She has felt that her supply has been low for the past couple of months and decided that it is no longer "worth starving her baby."

She only allows the baby to nurse four times a day. When I gently questioned this she said that babies are only "supposed" to eat every 4-6 hrs. and so 4 times a day fits into that range. Sigh.

When I asked her why she was so against the idea of feeding on demand she repeated that she didn't want the baby to think that he's boss, plus the idea of the baby using her body as a vending machine really bothers her. It upset her so much that she started to cry just talking about it. :cry

She started feeding him solids at an early age. I printed off the AAP guidelines for her but she has continued to feed him baby food, as well as the occasional bottle of formula for convienance.

Gee... formula, strict feeding schedule, early introduction of solids- wonder if that has *anything* to do with her low supply?

I'm very happy that her baby has recieved BM for the past six months, it just bothers me that she's now going to be one of those people who tells other new mommies-to-be how BFing is so hard, and that her body just didn't make enough milk, etc.

I also wonder what she's going to say when her baby still seems hungry after recieving a bottle of formula only 4 times a day...she can't blame it on her milk then...

[rachelmarie]

It makes me so sad to hear about "Ezzo babies." Sorry that she didn't listen to your advice. There is only so much you can do and you really did do all you could.

I had a hospital birth w/ an OB (won't do that again!) and we had to take lamaze class. The teacher (who's an RN) recommended Babywise . Pre-being enlightened (i.e. reading Mothering and visiting these forums) I bought the book. Luckily, I didn't get around to reading the whole thing before ds was born and of course didn't read it after he was born - Thank God! It just breaks my heart, though, to hear about people reading that book and doing what it says. I hope that no one else in my class went out and bought the book but they probably did, and some probably followed the advice and had low supply problems, etc.

[Soxfan Mom]

I was at a playgroup once, and one of the mothers was holding court about how great Ezzo is. (She was FFing the baby, too.) It was her first child; I was the only other mama there with an older child. I had never heard of the book, thank the sweet Lord, but I listened to her Tom Cruise-type spiel and said, "I've had experience nursing by request with two babies now, and I look a lot more relaxed than you do." Throwdown at the library playgroup!

To top it off, a newspaper photographer was there and shot some snaps of the group. My baby girl was in the paper and Ezzo mom's wasn't. Boy was she ticked.

[JamesMama]

That poor baby! I haven't heard anyone tout the wonders of ezzo, my aunt was a 'schedule mama' I was helping her once and my cousin acted hungy and I asked if I could feed him and she says "No, he just ate, he doesn't eat for another 45 minutes or so" About 30 minutes later he sarted crying and she changed his diaper and doinked around for 20 minutes till she let me feed him (He was FF'ed) pretty sad that a 15 year old girl knew better than a 25 year old woman. My mom was just the opposite, we could have fed my little brother at 1:00 if he acted hungry at 1:45 she'd feed him again (another FF'er) but at least she always fed on demand, even with formula.

[Belle]

I'm surprised she made it so long.

My well-meaning Stepmom bought me a copy of Babywise at a garage sale for $1. Fortunately I didn't read it until my baby was about 2 months old. Oh, it was full of awful advice. One of the things it said that was if you couldn't keep up your supply than you must be one of the (I can't remember the percentage he said, but it was higher than 2-3%) women who just wasn't able to make enough milk. And formula's just as good anyway. Well obviously if you're feeding a baby less you'll make less.

I've never before thrown a book in the garbage, but there's a first time for everything. It got chucked out before I finished it.

[mom2jolakeil]

I actually tried Prep for ummmm... 3 hours?? Just wasn't worth it : A friend gave me the materials and it just felt wrong. Johannah was 4 or 5 months old and hungry, I was engorged. It sure didn't make US feel more structured and happy : It was even harder when we'd be at her house at "bedtime" and her dd would be SCREAMING in her crib and Johannah would be happily playing : I figured out pretty quickly that I wasn't "one of those moms". I wanted to hold my baby and sleep with them and nurse them when they were hungry. Afterall, when they were hungry I was more than likely full and ready to fill them up

I've known a few people who used Prep (Babywise). My BIL and SIL did. They're poor baby. He didn't even make eye contact and was hitting milestones MONTHS after Ilana did (they're 4 weeks apart - she's older). My SIL is FAR from relaxed, wasn't that the whole point MOF, nearly ALL the parents and kids I know who used BW aren't relaxed. They're so worried about how their kids are perceived and schedules. There was one mom I was talking to and her dd at a year was only awake about 8 hours

[mama24-7]

my MIL brought the book to the hospital after having dd almost 3 years ago. the LC there just looked at it when MIL wasn't there, unfortunatly, & said "that book isn't recommended." i already knew to run the other way from it.

i returned it to the bookstore & got something worth reading, probably an AP book

sus

[Mrs Dimples]

Boy, that sucks. And the worst part about it is that now she's going to go onto my "other" due date board and post about how she "just didn't have enough milk" etc etc etc and everyone will chime in and say they had EXACTLY the same thing happen and how it really doesn't matter in the end anyway, the only thing that matters is that mama is happy and baby doesn't DIE. :

No, the thing that matters is that women are able to make their own WELL-INFORMED choices. Not a "choice" based on misinformation and lack of support from every side. Can you tell I just came from another board and am just heartbroken over the amount of crap information that is out there?

Although, I guess in your friend's case it probably sounds like it stems from some deep-seated control issues or insecurities. Which is even sadder, because she almost never had a chance.

We're here for you.

[MamaTT]

This is why I strongly believe in using the terminology, feeding on CUE.

We need to avoid language that reinforces the authoritarian parent vs. child dichotomy. The baby is not the enemy. Being on the same team is what family is all about!

[annettemarie]

Something like that happened to a college friend of mine. We are no longer friends; the chasm between our parenting styles is just too wide, and I was having trouble listening sympathetically to her supply issues when she kept not letting her baby boy nurse.

Once I wandered into an Ezzo playgroup by accident. It was bizarre. The baby wanted his juice cup, and the mama was all "No, sorry, Gary, Jr, it's not juice time." Dude, at my house, when you're thirsty, it's juice time (well, spring water time, but you get the point.) It was so odd.

[Wabi Sabi]

Originally Posted by annettemarie

Something like that happened to a college friend of mine. We are no longer friends; the chasm between our parenting styles is just too wide, and I was having trouble listening sympathetically to her supply issues when she kept not letting her baby boy nurse.

Yes, this is exactly how I feel! I have a hard time biting my tongue when she goes on and on about her low supply and how she's going to switch to formula because she "isn't going to starve" her baby anymore. Argh!!! Why don't you just feed the kid when he's hungry???

I don't think she gets the sad irony of it at all.

Anyhow, I thought I would try one last thing. This morning I took her a copy of the Dr. Sears Christian Parenting book, thinking maybe it would appeal to her since it is written from a religious perspective. No more than 30 minutes after I dropped it off she called and said I could have the book back because it is "way too radical" for her.

Yeah, feeding a hungry baby is such a radical idea, don't you agree?

Oh well. I just have to let it go. I've tried gently introducing her to some new ideas and she just isn't interested so there's no point in me continuing to butt in...

[Benji'sMom]

I have a friend who got on the 4 hour feeding schedule (not from ezzo but from her own doctor!) - well, I think the baby is 6 weeks old and mom has stopped nursing altogether because she didn't want to deal with mastitis - that she got from staying engorged all the time. But actually, the last time she came to our house the baby hadn't eaten in 6 hours! She doesn't seem to mind starving her baby.... She's always telling us how her baby is so much easier than our son was as a newborn. Well I guess it's easier if you decide you're not actually going to take care of the child! I have to say, if she ever makes a negative comment to me about my parenting style, that'll be the end of the friendship for sure, she's really a piece of work.

[mindycat72]

Originally Posted by MamaTT

This is why I strongly believe in using the terminology, feeding on CUE.

We need to avoid language that reinforces the authoritarian parent vs. child dichotomy. The baby is not the enemy. Being on the same team is what family is all about!

You know, this is a really good point. It's never once occurred to me how the term "feeding on DEMAND" can come across.

[Nickarolaberry]

Thinking about these babies crying in hunger or even worse, just giving up, is heartbreaking.

My dad's a pediatrician (37 years). we've had some disagreements, but in general he's pretty AP-friendly - very pro bf'ing, etc.

If he has a patient who he knows or suspects uses Ezzo, he tells them to find another doctor. He's had more than one patient he's called CPS on because he felt the "scheduling" amounted to neglect and the baby was suffering badly.

What a terrible situation for a new family. That man should be forced to sit in a small room listening to the crying and suffering of new babes he's tortured-by-proxy for the rest of his own life.

[MrsMoe]

http://www.ezzo.info/Articles/tyler.htm

Scary how these parents can blindly follow this guy even when their babies don't get enough to eat :

[soccerchic21]

Originally Posted by annettemarie

Dude, at my house, when you're thirsty, it's juice time (well, spring water time, but you get the point.) It was so odd.

That is what I don't get about Ezzo. When I am hungry or thirsty at home I go to the kitchen and eat or drink. My baby should get the same respect.