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The Fluoride Debate  

Poll Results: In my family we. . .

This is a multiple choice poll
  • 7% (25)
    drink floridated water and use fluoride products
  • 4% (15)
    drink floridated water and do not use fluoride products
  • 11% (41)
    do NOT drink floridated water but use fluoride products
  • 11% (40)
    do NOT drink floridated water and do not use fluoride products
  • 10% (35)
    we have no tooth decay
  • 13% (48)
    we have a small amount of tooth decay
  • 4% (17)
    we have a moderate amount of tooth decay
  • 2% (8)
    we have a large amount of tooth decay
  • 4% (15)
    we are vegetarian
  • 1% (4)
    we are vegan
  • 20% (71)
    we try to eat a balanced - non specific diet
  • 1% (6)
    we go by Weston Price's (Nourishing Traditions) research in what we eat
  • 4% (16)
    we don't have a style of eating habits
  • 2% (9)
    we have a style of eating that has been overlooked on this poll
350 Total Votes  
post #1 of 30
Thread Starter 
I am doing research on babies/kids and fluoride because I write a "natural mama" article for a local newsletter and have recently been asked to answer a question about fluoride. I decided to poll local moms to show that there was no difference in using fluoride or not using fluoride. The problem I am running into here is that most of the moms who do not use fluoride many have tooth decay in their young children whereas those who do use fluoride - well out of every mama I've polled their children have NO tooth decay.

I am really bummed out by my findings. Any thoughts on this?

Also if there are any Weston Price people I would like to know your thoughts as well and why you think I am getting this kind of response.

So please be honest with the poll.
post #2 of 30
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluoride

maybe this will help answer some of your questions...

I agree that there are safer methods of preventing tooth decay. First, I think there is way too much sugar intake these days. And other bad habits that lead to tooth decay.

short post - baby needs me
post #3 of 30
Thread Starter 
I guess I don't really understand what you are saying by the link you posted. I hope that you will post again. I guess you are saying that topically fluoride helps to treat and prevent tooth decay yet at greater levels can be toxic. However, I could be jumping to that conclusion because it is what I decided half-heartedly during my research on this issue.

Here are some other current threads going on right now about fluoride:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=307976
fluoride users
alternative dental
post #4 of 30
My husband has mild decay. I have moderate decay and flourosis from my childhood days. We purposely avoid our flouridated city water in favor of bottled spring water. We use flouridated toothpaste 3/4 the time and non-flouridated the other 1/4.

We eat a primarily raw foods diet, very healthy, balanced, organic, and low sugar, VERY low dairy and low wheat.
post #5 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4cornersmamma
I guess I don't really understand what you are saying by the link you posted. I hope that you will post again. I guess you are saying that topically fluoride helps to treat and prevent tooth decay yet at greater levels can be toxic. However, I could be jumping to that conclusion because it is what I decided half-heartedly during my research on this issue.
Yes, I guess I was trying to let you know that your results would make sense, because fluoride prevents tooth decay.
I hope your research helps find ways that we can prevent tooth decay without fear of fluorisis.
for taking on this issue

I guess one way would be to research indigenous methods of tooth decay prevention...not sure where you should start looking...maybe someone else knows?
post #6 of 30
They add it to the water so unless I have the money to buy an expensive filter or use bottle (which I don't) then I don't really have a choice. I use a britta but that doesn't filter out fluoride

http://www.fluoridation.com/
post #7 of 30
Topical fluoride works. I can definitely say this with no hesitation. Check out this thread about decay color/killing cavities w/topicals here: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=282442 We use Tom's of Maine with fluoride 1-2 x a day.

Internal consumption of the stuff though, I am not convinced that it is beneficial. We have a water filter but it's pretty difficult to filter it out. So despite our filter we are probably getting some internal fluoride which I'm not really happy about.

If you are currently suffering from decay then you need to check your diet. Nutrition is a huge factor in teeth problems. We do a modified NT diet, we eat mountains of vegetables in addition to the basic NT principles which IMHO does not emphasize enough.

There are a few issues at work in our modern society, namely eating processed refined foods and lots of sugars, as well as modern soils not being as nutrient dense as they used to be. Therefore, our modern produce is likewise not as nutrient dense. So even if we eat lots of vegetables, it's not a guarantee that we will have optimal levels of nutrients in our bodies. To help combat this, my family supplements with a wide-spectrum multi-mineral and we use topical fluoride.

I think if you had a great whole foods diet during pregnancy and you or DH don't suffer from any tooth problems, then your baby has a good chance of being decay free even without fluoride. However, in my case I had an insufficient pregnancy diet and now my baby has had a poor start. She will most likely have to fight to keep decay free, even with a great diet, due to poor enamel formation in the womb.

HTH!
post #8 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by MamaInTheBoonies
I guess one way would be to research indigenous methods of tooth decay prevention...not sure where you should start looking...maybe someone else knows?
Some indigenous people had wonderful teeth, others not so good. The common factors with healthy indigenous cultures is that they ate a whole foods diet free from modern processing and refined sugars, and that none were entirely plant-based, and they either had access to lots of seafood or lived in a mineral-rich area where they grew their crops both animal and plant. Read "Nutrition and Physical Degeneration" by Dr. Weston A. Price.

Nutrition is everything, especially nutrition (growing conditions) of the food that you are eating.
post #9 of 30
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by toraji
Some indigenous people had wonderful teeth, others not so good. The common factors with healthy indigenous cultures is that they ate a whole foods diet free from modern processing and refined sugars, and that none were entirely plant-based, and they either had access to lots of seafood or lived in a mineral-rich area where they grew their crops both animal and plant. Read "Nutrition and Physical Degeneration" by Dr. Weston A. Price.

Nutrition is everything, especially nutrition (growing conditions) of the food that you are eating.
I completely agree. We are also "NT / Weston Price" type eaters and have had no tooth decay. We do however use fluoride paste (Me and DH and the kids will use fluoride tooth paste occationally). Thank goodness our water comes from natural springs in the area so it is fluoride free.

It is really hard to stay away from processed foods. We completely follow Nourishing Traditions and eat mostly organic at home but who's to know what is in your food when you eat out? It would be great to know what is exactly in your food when you eat out.
post #10 of 30
The boys and I are fluoride users who have had zero cavities. We don't have specific dietary habits, except that we rarely eat out (never fast food) and stay away from sugar as much as possible. I have what I call a "no box" diet. I don't buy anything that comes boxed or already processed, so that cuts out most of the junk and refined sugar.
It would be interesting if you could get data from family members with different habits; I think a lot of it has to do with genetics. I'm fairly certain that we have impervious enamel, because, while I'm obsessed with oral hygiene, ds has a very, um, "freeform" approach to brushing and has still never had a cavity. I can't imagine that fluoride alone is responsible for that.
post #11 of 30
We use fluoride products and so far, no decay. We try to limit junk, but we aren't fanatical about it and don't follow any particular diet.

I don't think this poll can really help you draw conclusions because it doesn't link the responses as far as I can see.
post #12 of 30
We drink tap water, which has fluoride, but use fluoride-free toothpaste (and my 2.5 yr. old usually just uses water). I've had one cavity in my life (and my first dentist visit was at 10 years old!), he's had no tooth decay. He is vegan but I eat meat occasionally, mostly seafood. We both indulge in sugary treats on occasion (like my sister's birthday yesterday).
post #13 of 30
We drink water which has flouride added and we use flouride toothpaste, so I answered the first option. However, we do not get flouride treatments at the dentist because it seems like overkill and it seems silly to buy ALL of our consumable water, even though I do not think flouride should be added to the water supply.

We don't eat a specific kind of diet. I try to limit sugar, but we end up eating quite a bit of processed food, IMHO.

I haven't had a cavity in almost twenty years. My oldest has had one small one (age 10), my middle child haven't had any (age 5), and the baby only has two teeth. Not sure about DH, except that he hasn't had a cavity in the time I have known him, about 15 years. So, I voted none, because the one small cavity seems statistically negligible.
post #14 of 30
No fluoride - no cavities - basically vegan diet...

I have raging debates with my sister, a twenty year member of the ADA.

:
post #15 of 30
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by applejuice
No fluoride - no cavities - basically vegan diet...

I have raging debates with my sister, a twenty year member of the ADA.

:
:LOL sounds like me and my sister.

I think a big key to this issue that the mainstream researchers leave out is diet. I really think the majority of people/ moms on this forum are health conscious and stay away from refined foods that do cause tooth decay.

So, as fluoride may decrease our incidence of tooth decay I don't think that it's the big factor most dentists would make it out to be.

A few hundred years ago, mercury was used to treat a variety of ailments. Only the cures were worse then the diseases. Patients treated with this may have appeared to be getting better but many would suffer mercury poisoning - some so severe that death resulted. Is fluoride this centuries mercury?

BTW, my local poll of moms has come up with more and more people who use fluoride and do have tooth decay.
post #16 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by toraji
Some indigenous people had wonderful teeth, others not so good. The common factors with healthy indigenous cultures is that they ate a whole foods diet free from modern processing and refined sugars, and that none were entirely plant-based, and they either had access to lots of seafood or lived in a mineral-rich area where they grew their crops both animal and plant. Read "Nutrition and Physical Degeneration" by Dr. Weston A. Price.

Nutrition is everything, especially nutrition (growing conditions) of the food that you are eating.
Yes, that is true.
I meant in terms of treatments that differ from fluoride. Sorry, I didn't make that clear enough.
Treatments used by indigenous people for tooth decay or the like....does that make sense or am I making it worse?
:LOL so, sorry, wish I could write as well as I think sometimes
post #17 of 30
We do not use fluoride in any form (if we can help it, though I know it is many canned/bottled foods and beverages, but we don't consume many of those).
I buy water for 30 cents a gallon from a WaterWindmill, which uses a 7 stage purification process including reverse osmosis (which, along with distillation, is the only method I know which removes fluoride.) I would no more drink the tap water here than I would drink the sewer water, jmho! Not only because of the fluroride, but the chlorine, the benzine, the arsenic, the you name it. I have seen the local water reports, and I could care less about "safe levels" of such poisons in my water! I don't want ANY levels if I can avoid it.

Rarely, I cook with the tap water, such as to steam veggies, but if I am making soup or something which involves water directly added to the food and consumed, filtered.
Of course, lacking a filter on the showerhead, we probably absorb a lot of stuff anyway, sigh.

My kids have had some tooth decay, but very little compared to what I had as a kid (while drinking and using fluoride pastes).
Every cavity either has had was teeny-tiny, of a size which probably would have remineralized on its own. But I did not/do not consider myself knowlegable enough about that to forego having them filled (with non-mercury fillings, of course!)

My son was 7 when he first saw a dentist, for a very tiny cavity on a back molar which I "diagnosed".
His diet played a large part in that, I'm sure; vegetarian (vegan for several years) and extended breastfeeding (till 4 or so)

A few years later, he had several other very tiny-only showed up under the special light with the dye cavities filled. I really think that if we had remained as careful with our diet as he grew older, he would not even have had those, but we got more relaxed and allowed some less decent stuff to creep in

My DD has likewise been raised on a veggie diet and extended BF (she is turning 6 next mth and STILL takes a nip before bed if I let her, lol!)
She's had maybe 3-4 teeny-tinies. (consuming our still way better than typical but currently less than ideal diet)

Both have been cavity free for 2 yrs of checkups now.

Last ortho visit, they were cleaning my son's teeth, and he told them he didn't use fluoride/refused the treatment. The assistant who spoke with me afterwards looked at me as if I had 3 heads when I confirmed this, lol!

My view remains that even IF ingested and/or topical fluoride strengthens teeth and prevents decay, (which I do not accept, after looking carefully at the data; I think many studies have been faulty for one reason or another and that, overall, fluoride weakens the teeth and the rest of the skeletal system, as well as damaging the reproductive and immune system, to name two, JMO) the toxicity on the rest of the body and in general is unacceptable. Rat poison might prevent tooth decay, too, but forget it! JMHO. A few fillings is a small price to pay for avoiding the negative effects of fluoride.

Lilith, mom to John, 13 and Sage, 5

BTW, a recent story I saw might be of interest to some on this topic:

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/health/3266195

"July 14, 2005, 10:41AM
Harvard probing professor's fluoride report...Harvard University said it is investigating whether a dentistry professor who edits a newsletter funded by a toothpaste maker played down research showing an increased cancer risk from drinking fluoridated tap water.
The school will work with the National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences to review Chester Douglass' research into fluoride exposure and osteosarcoma, a rare form of bone cancer, Harvard Medical School spokesman John Lacey said.
The institute awarded a $1.3 million study grant in 1992 to Douglass, who found that the odds of having osteosarcoma after drinking fluoridated water were "not statistically different" from the odds for who drank non-fluoridated water.
Elise Bassin, a doctoral student supervised by Douglass who studied some of the same people, reported in her 2001 thesis that boys who drink fluoridated water appear to have an increased risk of developing the bone cancer...."Among males, exposure to fluoride at or above the target level was associated with an increased risk of developing osteosarcoma," Bassin wrote. "The association was most apparent between ages 5-10 with a peak at 6 to 8 years of age."
Douglass' study looked at men and woman of all different ages who drank fluoridated tap water. Bassin looked at the boys and girls used in Douglass' study and verified fluoride levels in tap water for each year of the child's life.
"She found the strongest association ever between fluoridated tap water and bone cancer among boys," Wiles said."
post #18 of 30
In my family, we don't drink flouridated water but we do use flouride products *sometimes.* They do not take the vitamins with flouride prescribed by the pediatrician. I have no problem with the twice-yearly flouride treatments at the dentist- it stays on the teeth and little is ingested. I buy non-flouride toothpaste for my youngest child. I've been buying toothpaste with flouride for my older ones, but I'm not convinced it's necessary and I'd switch them to a non-flouride toothpaste if I found one they liked. They brush with plain water sometimes too.

My youngest has no cavities (and he's never had flouride.) My middle child had "baby bottle tooth decay" from baby bottles, but fortunately her adult teeth appear to be healthy. My oldest has some small cavities from poor dental hygeine a few years ago, but no new ones.

We TRY to eat mostly whole foods with minimal processing, but they do end up eating more sugar than I'd like.
post #19 of 30
It was hard to vote - at home we are on well water, and DS takes a fluoride supplement, but he doesn't use fluoridated toothpaste. We do. But we're staying at my dad's, and his water is fluoridated, so DS is not taking a supplement now.

DH and I both grew up in the same town, had fluoridated water throughout childhood. I had several cavities as a kid, don't now. DH has incredible teeth. DS seems to have daddy's teeth.
post #20 of 30
Well, I use a floridated toothpaste, but i am stopping! I just did some research and i have floride poisoning! you can see it in my teeth!

my dd uses a non floride toothpaste, but we have floridated water.


I will not be giving her more than what in our water, no thank you.
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