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Maintaining faith in troubled times


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Author Topic: Maintaining faith in troubled times
Yammer
Moderator posted 06-19-2001 11:21 AM
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I'm agnostic but spiritually curious.
I wonder, how do those of you who profess deep committment to deity (or deities) maintain your belief, in the presence of situations that might suggest that He/She/They don't care?

Examples: Church collapses, leukemia, sharks, droughts, murderous psychopaths (many of whom profess to follow divine orders).





mom2godzillas
Member posted 06-19-2001 03:07 PM
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SHARKS?? Hey, I say, if you're swimming in shark infested waters, you get what's coming to you, and your deity is doing you no favor if He/She/They pull you out of it.
I guess the best answer I can give you is that we may not see what wisdom our deity has. I may be more eloquent tomorrow.



nursing mother
Member posted 06-19-2001 03:25 PM
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Hi Yammer, We've talked alot before, Yah!! I'll be first, because I love the question you just asked. I have had people tell me, how can you really believe in God's love when you see such suffering and terrible things around you, not to mention the personal tragedies I've suffered. I have wondered and doubted about my faith in times of deep distress, but have always come back to the essence of what I believe and that is that there is life beyond this life and eternal hope to those who believe in Jesus Christ. That is what keeps me going.
Now this may sound real weired, but I believe in the Holy Spirit whom the Bible says is our "comforter" in time of sorrow and pain. I have felt deep sorrow and depression in various times in my life , especially after the death of a loved one, and I can honestly say that I cried and felt terrible, but there was an underlining peace and comfort that I could not explain. Almost an out of body experience, I felt God's hand on me comforting me. Also when I had 2 miscarriages at 14, and 16 weeks I was devastated and depressed, yet had a strange comfort and seemed to carry me through.

About the suffering in the world. I am a real wimp concerning that issue. I loath suffering and seeing images of war, famine, death of innocents. I cry just imagining the terrible things some people go through. But I do not blame God I find comfort knowing God is in control. Sin rules this world and humans will always be inflicting power and hurt on each other, have we really learned anything from history?

My faith in God is what keeps me going. Knowing there is more in me than just life in this old world. I am just passing through, this life is but a vapor in comparison to eternity. I have no idea what it would be like not to believe in anything. How sad, how depressing, especially to tell your children there is nothing beyond this life. I give my kids hope in telling them that if I die or they die we WILL see each other again in heaven .

My faith is simple, yet real. I am not a scholar by any means, but I believe in my heart there is a God and a savior, Jesus Christ, and that is enough for me because I have experienced deep within my soul.(sorry for all the mis-spelled words, I am really in a hurry, but couldn't resist your question). Smiles!!!!



mollysmom02718
unregistered posted 06-19-2001 03:49 PM
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I do not belong to a particular religion, although I was raised catholic so that has to color my thoughts even though I make a conscious effort not to let it. I do believe in God or Spirit or what ever you want to call It. I also believe that this spirit gave us this life and this earth as a gift and as a gift it was ours to do with as we wish. While this Spirit may wish us to do what is right, we were born with free will. It is up to us to decide how we behave and the effects our behavior on others is our fault, not God's. I also believe things happen for a reason even though it may not be clear what that reason is and I also belive in karma and reincarnation, which to me means that we may suffer certain things in this lifetime that we do not understand until after death.
As far as the horrible inexplicable things that happen, blaming God or Spirit seems really lame. The same people who blame God for this stuff are the same ones who view miracles as "lucky". In other words they are quick to blame God for the bad things and congratulate themselves for the good things.
Um, I had a glass of wine with dinner so this may not be as clear as it is in my mind, but I hope you get the idea.
Peggy


daisymae
Member posted 06-19-2001 03:56 PM
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So much bad happens, but it never outweighs the good. It is obvious to me that the Universe is a compassionate one, and there is a reason for everything. All that happens here amounts to lessons that we signed up for before birth, and no matter how much pain I am in, eventually it gets better and I can see the everyday miracles again that make me smile.


Yammer
Moderator posted 06-19-2001 04:30 PM
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quote:
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Originally posted by nursing mother:
I loath suffering and seeing images of war, famine, death of innocents. I cry just imagining the terrible things some people go through. But I do not blame God I find comfort knowing God is in control. Sin rules this world and humans will always be inflicting power and hurt on each other, have we really learned anything from history?
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That's just it. I did not list "war" as that is a human failing, like nuclear waste or Puff Daddy. However, I don't get the concept of a supposedly benevolent God giving us "natural" disasters, things like SIDS, earthquakes, and dropping church roofs on His most devoted admirers. Sin is not involved there -- just a mysterious lack of miracles.


[This message has been edited by Yammer (edited 06-19-2001).]



boobybooby
Member posted 06-19-2001 05:01 PM
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Maintaining belief in God during times that it may seem he does not care is not always easy, nor did God promise it would be. Yet, it is by faith in hope of eternity that God gives us comfort and strength to see beyond the perils of this world. I don't have the time to offer my input for each example you listed but I will address cancer and a family experience with wrongful death because we often think these things should never happen in a world that supposedly belongs to a loving God.
Leukemia is a wretched thing. Cancer is an aweful disease. The only thing I can see good that comes from it is when a person who has died from it goes to be with the Lord in heaven, I have heard uplifting stories of people that recieve Christ on their death bed and welcome the Angels to come for them. Or, a family member still in the world, finds Christs love because of a death of someone dear to them. Now, I am very careful here to say that God does not "want" the disease to exist for these purposes. We already know that toxins cause cancer, we just don't know yet who will respond unfavorable to which toxins in our world that are greatly caused and made by man himself. What I am saying is that God in his wisdom has given us the gift of medicine, we are close to unlocking many secrets about cancer and already many people have survived it. Take one look at Lance Armstrong, Tour de France bicycle champion that has survived multiple organ cancer and you know he has lived a miracle here on earth.

I believe that God does have the last say, because it is his world. He holds blessings for us in all things, even the tragedy. When aweful things happen to people, God so many times retaliates with gifts of healing and repair that we may not see in "worldly" value. He does not create the tragedy, we do, Satan does, we allow our free will trample ourselves and others. Yet God has remedy for those who trust in him, he is refuge from any storm. Evil can never win over Gods refuge, it is just not possible, that is how we see that God truly has the last say and it is his world, regardless of the circumstances or outcome. There is a greater plan than for us to have perfect lives in the flesh. In fact, in the flesh we know there is going to be a great deal of suffering.

Sometimes you'll see a mother who has lost a child to disease or drugs, etc. who goes on to help and save others from the same. I believe that God takes a bad situation and has the ability to make good out of it, if we are willing to listen to him and take postive direction.

My brother died in 1981 after living all of his 13 years with severe brain damage. I never understood that there could be a purpose for his affliction and death. I never allowed the Lord to comfort me until I gave my soul to Christ as an adult. Now, I know the difference. When I am sad for my brother and about our loss, I feel the Lords presence upon me like a warm blanket covering me, now, sometimes it is not immediate but it always comes. I never had experienced this before knowing God. The loss was never-ending. I know that God did not cause his death, a vaccine induced manmade cocktail of drugs gave him a seizure. I, without a doubt know that God alone gave my mother the strength to care for him and keep him alive as long as she did. And God has given me gifts as well, because I have suffered and called on him for faith and hope. The Lord wants us to be thankful in all things, not just the happy times. So, I look forward to the day I will see my brother again in heaven and I thank God for blessing me after a tragedy, with a brother who is probably a special angel for the Lord, and most of all for the peace I have found and my sturdy conviction that Jesus is Lord.

I love Hebrews chapter 11. There you will find examples of people like Abel who by faith offered a better sacrifice than Cain, Enoch who was taken from this life so that he did not experience death, Noah who by faith built the Ark to save his family, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob who by faith made their home in the promised land like strangers in a foreign land because God told him to do so. They were not thinking about a land on earth that would warmly welcome them, yet they were thinking about life eternal in heaven, that is what they were preparing for. They were thinking of all the generations to come and how because of their faithfullness, all would have a chance to know Christ.
Heb 11:13
"All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not recieve the things promised, they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance."

By faith Moses refused to be known as the Pharoahs daughters son. By faith people passed through the red sea as on dry land, but the Eygyptians who had no faith drowned.
Hebrews is wonderful for learning about faith and the horrible things man has endured, just as we now have to endure a different aray of destruction in our world today. The suffering was great indeed, but the salvation through faith, eternal. The hope for me lies in the glory of salvation, knowing that no matter what bad things happen in this world, God will keep his promise of everlasting life in Him. When I see all of the wonderful ways that even a single man has made good out of something bad, I know this comes from the Lord who waits open armed to lift us up in pain and suffering.


And to lighten up the discussion a tad,
As for sharks, well I must say I was thinking, are you talking about shark bites to humans... or ... how we are destroying their waters with pollution? I just keep thinking that maybe we should honor and observe the ocean from a distance! Or at least only as specially trained divers, or fisherman with non-polluting boats (is that even possible?)! I think God created the sharks maybe to keep the fish population controllable or something of that nature


[This message has been edited by boobybooby (edited 06-19-2001).]



madison
Member posted 06-19-2001 05:03 PM
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I am a non-theistic Christian, believing in the Spirit/God/Life Force/Ground of all being vs a patriarchial father god who knows everything, but I find myself comforted by Buddhist thought in regards to your question, why bad things happen.
The First Noble Truth is that suffering exists. That doesn't *sound* very comforting, but it does sound true. Shit happens. Whether you are bad or good or inbetween, whether you tithe or don't, whether you are rich or poor, whether you volunteer or not etc. It could sound fatalistic, but to me it's not. Some suffering has a very specific reason - ie karma coming around, etc - and some is just because of the world we live in, and the people we live here with.

This sounds like the beginning of a "we are all sinners" rant, but it's not - I no longer believe in original sin. We're not "imperfect" just human. So shit happens, and we/the human race is at fault, or a true natural disaster etc.

I admit I've also been influenced alot by the quote "If God is good, He is not God. And if God is God, He is not good". I don't blame bad things on God, and neither do I attribute good things to him either.

Maybe this isn't the "spiritual" answer you were looking for, but I hope it assists you. I do believe in a Spirit/God/Life Force/Ground of All Being that has a bias towards life and love, and who knows us intimately in our souls and spirits. He/She/It gives us many lifetimes to learn and experience, some good things, some bad things, to teach us to love. For me, using bad times and situations to practice compassion and love will work towards MY good AND the good of the person I'm being compassionate and loving to.

If "shit happens" it is an opportunity to rise to the challenge with all the love I can muster.

So I guess for me the question, "Does God care?" isn't really a question. The answer is yes. BUT it doesn't show itself in miracles or disasters or praise or condemnation. Love exists. That proves "God" to me, and *that* is who I see in Jesus. The Spirit/Life Force etc living through a human being in a way that changed the world and millions of individuals since "God" took human form and walked with us in a way never before seen.





nursing mother
Member posted 06-19-2001 09:02 PM
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Yammer, all I can say is we live in an imperfect world. Roof's fall in, earthquakes happen, kids get sick, people die, people kill. I personally like to think of all the good things in life and all the people out there doing goods things, I hate the news that dwells on all the negative situations in this world. I am a realist though, and you cannot deny the trouble in this world and the dangerous place it is for our children. Therefore I must believe in a higher power, it helps when I am confused about all the sadness and suffering in this world.
God does do miracles, angels exist and do protect people, you hear miracles happening to people all the time, but that doesn't rule out that bad things do happen to good people. Yammer, think of it this way, Lets say you believe in God and it is not true, what have you lost? Lets say you don't believe in God and it is true, what have you lost then? I would rather believe and take the chances I'm wrong, than not believe and make the biggest mistake of my life, meaning not believing could send me to your know where the big "H" place. Get my drift. Hope this makes sense.( I love your responces because they make me think, and they make me get out my dictionary to look up new words I don't know).

Better to have loved and lost, then to have never loved at all.




papatimes3
Member posted 06-20-2001 10:39 PM
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Yammer,
you may owe me pear cider for keeping me up late thinking....

If you keep a reading list, the Book of Job in the Bible is an excellent treatise on the sovreignity of God in the midst of human suffering.In the New Testament,check out 1 Peter and chapter 8 of Romans for promises of strength, encouragement, and blessing for enduring, especially for the will and glory of God.
....goodnight and God bless!!


suseyblue
Member posted 06-20-2001 11:19 PM
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Once again, may I recommend CS Lewis ('The Problem of Pain', & 'Miracles'). These issues are addressed far more eloquently & completely than I could ever hope to (even with book in hand). I highly suggest you read them for answers to your questions.
('Miracles' is some fairly high theological cotton; I find it less readable than some of his others, but it does descibe why God cannot just supercede natural law every day & still have this be a coherent universe.)

I found his books quite fascinating long before I ever became a Christian, btw... and there are few media products I have found more wickedly delicious than John Cleese's audio reading of 'Screwtape'.

Suse





Naomi
Member posted 06-21-2001 10:37 AM
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The most eloquent answer I've run across to the question "how do you keep your faith in the face of evil" is the book "The Hiding Place" by Corrie Ten Boom. Corrie was a devout Christian who worked with the Dutch resistance during WWII, and hid several Jews in her house. They were raided; all the Jews were saved, but Corrie and her sister and father were arrested and sent to prison. Her father and sister died; Corrie survived and was released a year or two later. She went on to create rehabilitation programs for Nazis. Although I don't share her faith, I am in awe of Corrie's faith in God and her ability to forgive.
As far as tornados go....I believe that God created a world with certain natural laws, and God breaks those natural laws very rarely. Tornados and hurricanes are part of the natural world; we just cope with them as well as we can.




veganmom
Member posted 06-21-2001 12:24 PM
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An analogy:
Sometimes I have to do things to dd that she doesn't like, like changing her diaper or putting her in her car seat when she'd rather be held. From her perspective, what is happening is horrible. Because I have a much greater ability than she does to foresee the long term consequences of what I do, I can see that in the long run her being in her car seat will have more desirable consequences than being held (i.e. if we get in a crash she won't die.)
I trust that in God's eternal perspective, what seem to us to be negative events are truly for the best. Just as I can see things more clearly than dd because I have greater ability to know consequences, God can see current events more clearly than we can because God has a much greater ability to foresee the future than we do.



boobybooby
Member posted 06-21-2001 03:37 PM
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Yammer,
Theres a church in my town that has a marquis facing a busy avenue. Every week they post a thought, or verse from the bible.

I just so happened to go down that Ave. today and the marquis read:

"When God gives a stoney path, he also gives strong shoes."

I thought it was perfectly fitting for this topic you posted here this week and it gives a good vision of how God protects us in troubled times.



doulajulie
Member posted 06-21-2001 10:03 PM
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Where was _______(fill in your god here) when these young children in Texas were being drowned by their own mother? Or was this invisible friend teaching a lesson? If your god is everywhere and making miracles happen, this would have been a wonderful time for him to step in. A better time for your god to step in would have been to help this mother get well and overcome PPD or whatever was going on with this woman. Your god, if he is indeed everywhere, looked into these tortured kids eyes as they were being drowned by the person in their life that was supposed to do anything for them, their mom.
How about a young woman or man being raped, where is the good in that? I was raised agnostic, because my mom always said to us "if there was a god there wouldn't be people starving". I'm now an atheist. I hope this post doesn't sound too harsh, but in times like these (those poor babes), there is not a doubt in my mind about my beliefs.
Is there anyone out there on these boards with similar feelings??? Any other atheists/secular humanists????? Help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Julie

I've decided that while I do love these mothering boards, I think I shall stay away from the Spirituality Forum, lol! It is hard being in the minority!!!


[This message has been edited by doulajulie (edited 06-23-2001).]



nursing mother
Member posted 06-21-2001 11:53 PM
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How do we know that God is not hurting even more from seeing the ravishes of what human beings can do to each other. That is not how he created us, to do evil, we brought that upon ourselves. We humans have choices and free will, God will not impose Himself on us to make all evil stop. To blame God for the evilness of this world does not make sense to me.
Where was God when these babies were being killed? He was there receiving them into His arms. Does any of this make sense to us?? It's hard to comprehend, but we must believe and know that nothing like this is ever in God's will. Why He allows it to happen? Know one really knows, but bad things do happen and people choose to be cruel, God does not make them cruel. A tragedy like this makes you question the very essence of your faith. But faith is believing in those things that you fail to understand. I choose faith in God, even though I don't always understand.



papatimes3
Member posted 06-22-2001 10:32 PM
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"For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life."-John 3:16
Do we really understand what this means,however many times we may have heard it? God Himself took on mere human flesh, and if that weren't enough(and gosh, shouldn't it be?) gave that life away to be crucified by and for an ungrateful people.
Crucifixion, btw,is a remarkably painful yet effective means of public execution, and make no mistake-it's fatal. Let it never be said that God is not acquainted with suffering.
"As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts higher than your thoughts"
-God
(Isaiah 55:9)





Mamma By The Bay
Member posted 06-23-2001 07:00 AM
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I do not believe God abandoned those beautiful five children in Houston. He took them to be home with HIM. Those are HIS children. I think sometimes, we as parents, are vain in thinking that the children God blesses us with are ours. They are not. They are HIS. What a wonderful thing! The miracle that He gives them to us, to our care, to raise them up to be His followers, His disciples, and do HIS work. We are so blessed. Many parents have struggles and heartaches with their children whether they are very ill or become drug addicts, etc. Many of us carry a heavy cross daily. However, God has a plan for each and every one of us. He knows what he is doing and because we don't understand doesn't mean
he doesn't love us. This is what is meant by faith. It is a blessing to me that I can give up all my problems and burdens to God.
Who knows what will become of the situation in Texas. Maybe it will cause others to recognize depression in their loved ones and
spur them to get help. Maybe it will cause a doctor to look a little more closely into his patients eyes and get to the bottom of their difficulties. Maybe it was cause parents around the world to sweep their children into their arms and tell them they love them over and over again. The father of those children really needs a lot of prayers from all of us now!


francisflock
Member posted 06-23-2001 10:55 AM
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Just a quick note...My Mom asked me once how God could allow Hitler to do what he did. The answer is really very simple. If it weren't for God, we would all be Hitlers. All good things come from God. Our world is as it is because of what we as pathetic humans have done...disease, murder, even bizarre weather, are all due to humans, not God. I truly believe that if it weren't for God and His unbelievable mercy, we would have been extinct a long, long, long time ago from our own greed, stupidity, etc. I praise God for putting up with us, for having patience for just a little longer for the sake of the few who will turn to Him and repent.
Sorry I can't take more time...in a terrible hurry!





jenmama
Member posted 06-23-2001 03:22 PM
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Veganmom -- I love your analogy.




frolix
Member posted 06-23-2001 10:29 PM
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I agree with Madison that suffering is a fundamental truth. (Is that a Buddhist idea perhaps - Suffering the first Noble Truth?)
Expressed succintly too by JM Coetzee (a novelist who explores this notion) 'Pain is truth and all else is subject to doubt'.

I have difficulty with secondary notions about suffering. For example that suffering builds character or a notion like we are here to learn to find the good in the darkest situation or we made some karmic contract to participate in suffering in order to transcend ourselves.

I also have difficulty with origin seeking explainations of suffering like original sin or the presence of an evil force. I find this notions too rational and I worry that a focus on origin can easily lead to paranoia and blame. It is not my belief that suffering can be controlled, unfortunately.

I know this sounds bleak because all it leaves is the notion that suffering is painful. I think sometimes that we try to hard to defend against it and try change it into something else (a lesson or evidence of our or someone else's inherent badness) because it is so painful or inconvenient. I'm not saying that we don't need to salve to ameliorate and soothe. Tears need to be cried, dedications sung, wakes and watches observed. And by doing this, ie in approaching suffering from within our heart space, with our hearts open we create the space for compassion and the capacity to wait. This way I think we will truely honour suffering, let it live within us and let it pass.
It seems to me that many spiritual teachings are saying this. But the why and wherefores of suffering that are focussed on too often and chase us into our heads and more often than not, imho, create more confusion.

Part of compassion is of course having the courage to stand up when we see suffering and acknowledge it





daisymae
Member posted 06-25-2001 11:26 AM
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I have faith in my soul making pre-birth decisions about the lessons I would need in this life. I know I am the one who decided that the first 25 yrs. of this one would be a condensed version, being to hell on earth enough times for three lives it seems, and it brings me great joy when I look back at all I've gone through, not regret. I would not be here at this place in this moment if anything had been different. I wouldn't want to be anywhere else. I have faith in myself as well as the Universe. I don't really get the "why do bad things happen" question. If there wasn't any bad, how would you recognize the good?


Yammer
Moderator posted 06-25-2001 12:59 PM
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quote:
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Originally posted by daisymae:
I don't really get the "why do bad things happen" question. If there wasn't any bad, how would you recognize the good?
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It's not "why do bad things happen?" -- there are lots of other explanations. It's more like "why does God sometimes perform miracles, like making the Virgin appear in a piece of a toast, yet allows hundreds of thousands of Rwandan babies die exquisitely painful deaths for lack of rain, their screams of thirst unable to escape their parched and cracked throats?"



daisymae
Member posted 06-25-2001 01:46 PM
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It's not possible that the souls of those babies signed up for those short and tormented lives?


edgyveggie
Member posted 06-25-2001 02:35 PM
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For me, remaining, or trying to remain, faithful during hard times or trying to answer "Why does God let this happen?" is a truly humbling experience.
My mom died when I was 6. I had grandparents die while I was young, my uncle was murdered, lots of death in my family. I think somewhere in my heart I felt that God was going to spare me from anymore death for a long, long time. Then my dad died a couple of years ago. I was devistated to be orphaned at the young age of 28. That my ds would never know his Pa. I was so angry at God for letting this happen. I mean, hadn't I been tested enough? I remember sitting in church listening to our pastor and saying to myself, "This is just a bunch of Bull S***". I felt that I couldn't be hurt anymore than I was. Then something happened. I don't know exactly what it was, just a enlightening almost.

I didn't hear out loud, but inside my head I heard God saying to me, "Who do you think you are? Who do you think provided such a wonderful earthly father for you? How dare you try to tell me when I can call him home. He is my child. I do all things for reasons you don't need to understand." Needless to say I was humbled. This didn't happen in a big earth shaking BOOM< I AM GOD thing. It was over time.

I had to humble myself and my ego and remember that God doesn't make mistakes and everything can be a learning experience. It helped me to grow as a Christian and it helped me to know that I needed to trust and turn things over to my Lord. It is a faith I can't put into words. Of course it is a daily struggle to give up control (as if I actually had it!) and trust. A DAILY battle!



madison
Member posted 06-26-2001 11:49 AM
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Daisymae,
Just wanted you to know I agree with you, regardless of how onerous and unpopular that opinion feels to others here.

Yes, what happened is horrible. But I don't think any of us here have had "perfect" lives without pain, though obviously none of us have been murdered. Is it any easier to die of Alzheimers? Or cancer? Or in a car accident? Or alone in a nursing home surrounded by strangers? I don't think so.

What about the hundreds of similar stories we hear NOTHING ABOUT? Does that mean those horrors should shock us less? Millions of people - mostly children - starve to death daily. As you and I sit here blithly typing away. Murders, rapes, assaults happen every second. Why do these bother us less than this one case?

Because she could have been us? What if she WAS one of us? One of the 3000 who are registered here, of the 250 of us who regularly post?

Some people think karma sounds a bit like the Christian idea of predestination. It's my opinion that it's similar only in the fact that our souls are active participants in choosing *which set of circumstances* [not a line by line life plot line] we will participate in. The soul isn't inherently concerned with bodily pain, it wants to evolve/improve/become pure to join with God/Goddess/Life Force/Spirit, and the way to do that is through a succession of lives.

Those children's BODIES died, not their souls. Their souls are eternal, and are now far beyond the reach of their murderer. Maybe they learned something, maybe it was just something they endured. Who knows? Maybe that mother was a new soul without wisdom, born into a very confusing and convoluted world. Maybe in her next life, she'll be more compassionate because of what she did this time - after all, it'll come back around. She'll pay with guilt and the horror of what she did for a long time, longer than just her one life here now. We can hope so!

So, to get back to Yammer, I guess I maintain my faith in Spirit by realizing that Life is Life and it'll come back around in another form, same substance. I believe souls are eternal, based on my own rememberance of past lives and the stories of other people who have either died and returned or who similarly remember past lives or the time before conception or birth.

I don't think you believe in the eternal indestructible spirit/soul, so I don't know how to answer your question really.

[This message has been edited by madison (edited 06-26-2001).]



daisymae
Member posted 06-26-2001 01:27 PM
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At least that poor family in Texas is providing a wake-up call and their story may save lives...


madison
Member posted 06-26-2001 05:28 PM
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Exactly, Daisymae


doulajulie
Member posted 06-26-2001 10:01 PM
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Alright I'm back...
So if god is almighty and all powerful, why does he (she/it/they) need to take lives in order for PPD to be studied more/taken more seriously? Why can't he drop a book or hell, why can't he whisper in some doctors ears "hey, you should study more about PPD and help others". Maybe he should have a weekly tv show about what he is up to and keep us informed. For people without tvs, the whisper/voice in their head could work. The week before she killed her little ones he could make sure that her husband/her doctor saw the show and helped her more.
Do you know what I mean? I just think if there was someone out there to help, they would do a better job and be more creative in teaching us lessons so that young babes don't have to be tortured.
For believers:
What do you think a soul is?
Where is hell?
Where is heaven?
This is probably should be a whole new thread! Someone mentioned earlier in this thread that one of the reasons they believe is because they don't want to go to hell. For a long time hell was in the center of the earth, a firey pit, where the devil met you, etc. Well we have drilled pretty darn far down into the earth, and what do you know...no firey pit. I'm curious like Yammer and hope I don't come off too harsh! I'm not the best writer, I'll admit that right away!
Julie




edgyveggie
Member posted 06-27-2001 06:26 AM
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DoulaJulie,
This is what I believe as a Christian-
I believe we are all put on this Earth for a reason, to do a job. We may never know what that job is if we live to be 100. Some know it from a very young age (a calling). Once your "job" on Earth is done, you leave. Whether that is the first hour you are here or till you are really long in the tooth.

I believe that no one leaves this life one second before or after they are supposed to. They leave just as God planned. As hard as it is to understand why some die horrible deaths, in my faith I just believe. Yes, that sounds blind, but that is the trust I have in my God.

You may never be shown a reason for the deaths of these children (ie- seeing someone helped because of awareness), but maybe I will. Maybe I will go my whole life and still be haunted by their deaths, unable to see anything but sadness about it. You may one day find peace because something more was done about ppd. Who knows? Well, God knows.

I can see how you can have the thoughts that a loving God wouldn't do something like this and that he could have educated us in a different way. That is all very true. He could have stopped it, but since He didn't, I have to believe that there was a very good reason for that because He is a loving God.

I am the type who always questions why I am at a certain place in my life. We just moved from a city that I was very unhappy in and the whole time we were there, I just kept questioning, "Why were we brought here? What am I supposed to be doing here? What is my job?" One of my friends told me that I may have not been there for myself, maybe I was there for someone else. She said "You might be there to smile and say a nice word to a cashier and with that remind her that people are good and kind. You may touch a life and never know it, but you are there for a reason." That helped put things in perspective for me that I am not the center of the world and I play but a small role.

So now I pray that I will have understanding so I can do my "job" better. I am not really good at waiting or listening, but I am trying.



k'smami
Member posted 06-27-2001 06:53 AM
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Madison,
You summed it up perfectly for me. Thoughts like yours are what give me comfort.

Only Love Prevails