Including your partner from the beginning - Page 2

[loriana]

a new member and glad to have found you

I am new to the group and am very much wanting a homebirth this time. I am 26 weeks pregnant and have been researching homebirth for months as it is all new to me. I am perplexed and distressed at this point because my doctor says she really wants to work with me, and really wants me to talk with the CNMs at her practice but I'm still afraid that it all will come out the same (hospital-wise) even after I tell her everything I want and don't want (sharing my birth plan,etc.) in the way of routine procedures and tests (both prenatal and during labor and delivery).

I am so glad to have found this group of women I had my other three babies at a local hospital. I was unnessisarily induced all three times. Everything turned out ok, but it wasn't what I wanted and I want this birth to be better. This is our 1st reversal baby too. I am very protective at this point- especially of this baby, and my body and fertility. Very priceless to me and I am so thankful to have things restored again and the privilege to even be able to give birth again. (I concieved 8 weeks after my reversal surgery and am in awe, to say the least.)

I know that time is running out and I need some real peace about it. I have been reading so MUCH and trying so HARD to become informed that I have been getting nauseous and sick again, and diarrea too. I don't want to stress about this. I was really enjoying this pregnancy until I thought about going to the hospital to give birth again. I really feel strong that homebirth (mainly unassisted birth at home) is for me all the way around, and my husband has been reading about it as well and feels pretty good about it -although a bit unsure still. We are learning together and he is very understanding and can visualize us being home and doing it just fine. He just said to me this morning, "You have to go with your gut feeling, babe." And he knows that it is being home with just us and our children. No other way seems to fit in my mind- it turns me in knots just imagining a hospital birth again with all the "help" and "checking" and all. I want to be left alone. I delivered naturally and with large babies (8,9,10 lbs). I am as healthy as a horse and my body has just done so wonderfully with pregnancy especially this time around. I am so amazed at the miracle of pregnancy and birth.

Until I found you all on the net by diligently searching, I felt there was noone to talk to about these things and it has been eating me up.

I live in Georgia and I have a dd-10 yrs , dd- 8 yrs, ds- 7 (in August), and baby boy due late Oct-(early Nov)-married for 12 years- 30 years old/husband 35 years old

[shell024]

welcome!!

I didn't find this forum till I was about 20 some weeks, and was so relieved! But then I too started to get stressed about all the research. I had committed to reading about every possible complication, its causes and preventions, etc. But the more I read about each one, I found that provided you take very good care of yourself (healthy appetite, get all your nutrients/vitamins/minerals, listen to your body about what you should be doing at any given moment...) during pregnancy, and stay AWAY from any interventions... almost every "complication" is tossed out. Of course, some normal things about birth are labeled as complications, like breech babies, but are in fact perfectly fine and nothing to stress about.
There are always unique situations and its your job to be the judge of your own situation. It sounds to me like you know what you want and need in your heart, and just need the extra reassurance that IT WILL ALL BE OKAY.
My partner had all the doubts and fears that I had until we did some reading (well, I did most of the reading and read aloud key things to him) and felt much better.
He also visualizes what the birth will be like... his common phrase is that "he'll just slide right on out" and I love it. The more he says that, the more I can visualize it and relax and open myself up for him to "just slide right out".
To make my partner feel a little more at ease and "prepared" (without spending money on more books), I am going through my stuff and writing down key things like "if labor is stalled...try this...or that..." or "in the event that I hemmorhage..."
Plus, it helps me kinda reiterate it in my mind that throughout the birth I need to listen to my intuition, but here is a little list of reminders of what MIGHT help certain things.

Oh...and when I've been reading so much that my brain feels fried and that I could pass a midwife test, I completely stop and just go lay down...refusing to do any more research until I feel like it. I'm more concerned with RELAXING.

[loriana]

Thank you so much for understanding

shell024,
I can tell you are intuitive just from what you understood about what I feel from reading my post. It brought tears to my eyes just to hear that someone knows what I am feeling and it IS very reassuring.

I have to admit my brain has felt fried and I do want to really focus on my children right now because time is valuable with them before little baby comes! They need some extra attention and love I feel. So much to do and so little time. I am nesting like crazy..mainly because I feel the need to really get our homeschooling up and running a little ahead of time so we won't fall behind in the fall and winter. Can you tell I love challenges?!

Your idea about the writing possible scenarios and their solutions down it a GREAT one!! I have to have things simple and laid out, myself, and that sounds like something I could really benefit from and get peace of mind at the same time!!(helpful to hubby as well) :

I do need rest tho. I've been staying up all night sometimes just to catch up on reading from the computer things I bookmarked to read from internet. Our finances right now can't afford for me to spend a ton on books, so I am relying on the library and internet to be informed and plan on ordering some things soon. I need to get a printer for this computer- we just got it in Oct. 2004. That's one reason I feel such an urgency to read (from computer) and I don't have time in the day- the children need me. My sleep is pretty messed up at this point (I wake up every morning at 4 am with tons on my mind)-I try to sleep but I just can't because I need to know more to be at peace to sleep well. Make any sense?

This sounds pathetic now... :

Anyway, I am hungry now, gotta go eat some food-baby Zachary is kicking me!

Homeschooling mom to three sweeties dd- 10yrs. , dd-8 yrs. ,ds-7 (in Aug.) : , : due Oct. 31, 2005 or thereafter. Ha! : wife to Eric 12 learning and growing years :LOL

[girlndocs]

Originally Posted by JessJoy

studying the process can only dispell any fears or misconceptions you may have.

I disagree. Even taking positive, UC-centered resources into account, overall the pool of information available about birth is heavily slanted towards fear and pathology. Really is it going to dispell my fear or misconception to learn 847 different ways my baby could be abnormal? 236 ways labor can suddenly go wrong? KWIM?

Studying the process can just as easily lead a woman into doubt and a hyper-monitoring mindset. There's a point of "useful information saturation" for everyone -- after that point additional information only complicates things. And that point is different for each of us.

[Persephone]

Originally Posted by girlndocs

I disagree. Even taking positive, UC-centered resources into account, overall the pool of information available about birth is heavily slanted towards fear and pathology. Really is it going to dispell my fear or misconception to learn 847 different ways my baby could be abnormal? 236 ways labor can suddenly go wrong? KWIM?

Studying the process can just as easily lead a woman into doubt and a hyper-monitoring mindset. There's a point of "useful information saturation" for everyone -- after that point additional information only complicates things. And that point is different for each of us.

I agree. I think it's important to know the "variations of normal", like what happens if you have a breech, or the baby doesn't start breathing right away, or anything. And I think it's also good to recognize what CAN go wrong, and the warning signs for things like preeclampsia, or placenta previa.
But things that are REALLY rare, like amniotic embolism (I only know this term because it was on Law and Order the other night, and I looked it up. They said it was caused by "lack of prenatal care", and I looked it up, and they said it was extremely rare, and that no one knows what causes it. But I"m getting WAY off the track. Anyway, didn't want to scare anyone.) Thing that are REALLY rare, I don't bother with, because most of the time not enough is known about them anyway, and if DOCS don't know what to do about them, then they certainly can't do too much to prevent them.

Anyway, I'm dying to get the Emergency Childbirth manual, and learn about some of those variations of normal. But as for learning about EVERYTHING that could go wrong? That's an exercise in madness.

[shell024]

Originally Posted by Persephone

it's important to know the "variations of normal"

...But as for learning about EVERYTHING that could go wrong? That's an exercise in madness.

ITA
It made me feel better to go and learn about the different things that happen in "NORMAL" birth (totally unhindered), because I only knew of what happens with a typical managed hospital birth.
It's kind of like the more I research, the more I realize that you DON'T NEED to research to give birth safely! The more I read stories of women giving birth unassisted, planned or unplanned, I just see it always going back to intuition. Whether the woman had done the research or not, in the midst of birth, INTUITION is what got the baby there safely. Listening to your own body and doing what you feel is right at the time. I've noticed a lot that the research kinda gets thrown out the door...
Sometimes I feel like my partner and I have to take the things we thought we "KNEW" about birth and just go backwards, yk? Our society has pushed us so far away from the pure and natural nature of birth and it can be so hard to undo.

Originally Posted by jessjoy

Another sticky issue that I'm curious about: Do most of you believe that you alone are completely responsible for your birth, even when you choose to let a partner experience it with you? I hate to play devil's advocate, but if you did choose to let a partner in on your birth and something did go wrong, wouldn't the partner definitely feel responsible for making sure things turned out safely?

I feel that I am mainly responsible, since it is my body and only I know how to listen to what its telling me. But my partner and I have also talked about his responsibility of helping me to be comfortable and ease the process along, since he IS going to be there...and I think it would drive him mad to sit and do nothing. But everyone's different. There are many women who want to birth alone, even if they have partners. That is their choice as well. If something were to go wrong, I feel that both of us would feel responsible for making sure things turn out safely, naturally, as most parents would in any situation involving their children. I'd hate to think about women who choose to go along with a hospital birth or even with a midwife at home, if that isn't what they want...and then the possible things that may or may not go wrong due to any interventions and then have to think later "we should have had no one there" yk?
But I think it all comes back to evaluating your own situation.
Women may come here asking for advice about "convincing" their partners to feel comfortable because they are concerned about having a safe birth and want to get everything as smooth as possible.
I know I asked for some advice on the same issue, because obviously other women here have BTDT, and I just wanted some opinions or suggestions.

[cottonwood]

I understand that for some people, the more they read, the more settled they become in their thinking. For my husband that wouldn't have been the case. He's less a "thinking" type than a "feeling" type. Knowing all the details of birth wouldn't have helped him feel more confident. And it certainly wouldn't have been necessary, as the last thing I wanted was for him to act as a midwife.

That said, it wasn't enough for me to say "We're having a UC," and just leave it at that. We talked about it quite a bit, discussing the reasons for it and relative risk and what my needs and expectations of him were. I consider it very important to be prepared in that sense.

Even so -- even being prepared as we were, on the same page philosophically -- I wouldn't have been surprised if he had gotten cold feet. *I* got cold feet, and I'm the one who *did* do the research and reading, technical and otherwise. Doing so certainly didn't make *me* more confident, so it obviously wouldn't have been a guarantee for my husband even if he was the type that I'd think it would be helpful for.

Jess wrote: "Studying the process can only dispell any fears or misconceptions you may have"

No, not only. It can also create or perpetuate misconceptions, or create fears that wouldn't have been there otherwise. I see it on these boards all the time.

Binah wrote: "I'm not saying you are really saying that, it's just that questions do come up. I have read posts from women, for example, who are waiting to birth the placenta hours after the birth. Most people probably don't expect that."

Yes, and the answer is often *not* readily available in books, and add to that it not occuring to the person until it's happening, so it's perfectly reasonable for someone to come online and ask about it.

[shell024]

: ITA with just about everything in the PP

[BinahYeteirah]

Originally Posted by fourlittlebirds

Jess wrote: "Studying the process can only dispell any fears or misconceptions you may have"

No, not only. It can also create or perpetuate misconceptions, or create fears that wouldn't have been there otherwise. I see it on these boards all the time.

I don't know very many midwives personally, but the couple I do know seem to have experienced this. I imagine many midwives start out their training very trustful of birth and "idealistic", but by the time they finish their studies end up with a mind full of all the things that can go wrong. I believe that this can be overcome, but I can remember my midwife telling me how she had no problem refusing various interventions and tests in her own pregnancies before becoming a midwife. Yet she felt compelled, as a new homebirth midwife, to strongly recommend these same procedures to her patients. It may have been the responsibility she felt to follow the guidelines of her licensing organization or the fear of being sued if she failed to push the "standard of care" that caused her contradictory actions. It may have also been the in depth study of each intervention during her academic training that no longer allowed her to see the big picture.


I have been aware of UC through 3 pregnancies (the first ended in the birth of my beautiful dd at a midwife-assisted homebirth, the second ended in miscarriage). By the time I got to this one, there was very little reading I wanted to do, either medically oriented or UC oriented. I am happy I have had the chance to just feel this pregnancy and not intellectualize everything. I am very much a reader and researcher, and taking a break from that has brought more clarity than anything else.

[girlndocs]

Originally Posted by BinahYeteirah

I imagine many midwives start out their training very trustful of birth and "idealistic", but by the time they finish their studies end up with a mind full of all the things that can go wrong.

Yup. ABout 7 months into my pregnancy I switched from J, a fairly interventive, medical-model CNM, to D&A, a team of DEM's. J's response was to warn me that they were too green (their practice was 3 years old). She said when she had been practicing for 3 years she thought she could handle everything, but since then she's learned how many things can go wrong.

[cathicog]

FWIW, amniotic fluid embolism is an emergency which is caused by amniotic fluid being sucked up by the partially detached placenta, crossing over into the mother's bloodstream and causing heart attack, stroke or death. It is almost always caused by drugs causing severe contractions, that partially separate the placenta during labor and birth. It is almost never seen in homebirths, but I do know one lady who died of it...It cannot be predicted, and cannot be treated, that I am aware of...(If anyone does know of some treatment, please let me know! This is one complication I hope I never see as a midwife!)

[Arora The Explorer]

I'll just add one more version to our dialogue about research and the "Studying the process can only dispell any fears or misconceptions you may have" comment. I really feel that my intuition guides me. If there is some thought that I have or dream that pops up that gets caught in my head -- of some kind of complication, I will research to find out how to 1. avoid the situation and 2. react in the situation. That WILL release that fear from my brain. On the other hand, studying the process at ever turn will NOT dispel fears for me. I much more trust my own instincts.

[five_arrows]

I am somewhat confused about what the actual discussion is about.

I would have to say though that if my dh was not supportive of my decision to UC then I wouldn't do it. Not because I am not completely convinced of my need to UC but because ultimately it is not going to be the birth experience I want, just being in a relaxed state of mind with my dh present. I DO need the support, even if it is only emotional, someone there to say "You CAN do it!" when the difficult point arrives. And not someone there freaking out and calling the EMT's when I start hollering. If it were the case that dh was not comfortable, then i would get a mw.

It is important for me that my dh be comfortable with my choices, because ulitmately we are a partnership, and it would be selfish of me to say "its my way or the high way" - I respect and love him too much to just go against his wishes, if he had done the research and asked all the relevant questions.
My relationship is to dh is more important, and I feel it would affect it more negatively if I was to just 'do what I want regardless of what HE thinks!"

I feel confident in the natural process of birth, however I do know that there are times of uncertainty and fear, and that is normal and natural too, because as much as we think we have 'gained control' of our pregancies and birth, no-one is fully in control at all. Sometimes everthing doesn't go to plan.

I do HOPE there will be some ladies on here to help me when and if I need it during labor!!

[KateSt.]

My dh was definitely NOT on board when I first mentioned UC. He was very, very resistant to the whole idea and we had many difficult conversations about it. The journey to UC was such an intense time for me, because it was the first time dh and I were having regular disagreements but at the same time my whole soul was shouting with joy at discovering UC. It was quite the rollercoaster.

At one point, after the worst UC discussion (while I was 6 mos pregnant) I decided to compromise with dh and agreed to have our mw at our house during labor, but in a different room. The next morning I woke up feeling completely defeated -- I felt like a light had gone out in my heart, and I felt both my baby and me mourning our idea of our perfect birth. I cried in dh's arms saying "I know what you're asking is not unreasonable...but I just can't do it."

I could not compromise on this decision because ultimately it was ME giving birth and MY comfort should be the first thing to be considered. He could see how important this was to me so he agreed to work on it. He didn't want to rob me of my dream.

One month later, all of a sudden, he said "Okay, I'm on board." So, it took my dh 7 months to warm up to the idea of UC, but it happened as it needed to. Yes, there were times when I was upset in my pregnancy, but I had an inner peace that came from knowing I was on the right path. To me, this occasional pregnancy stress was much easier to live with than the idea of having to get over a bad birth experience.

The day I was in labor, my dh surprised himself by feeling completely calm and peaceful. Never once did he second guess our decision and he became the biggest advocate for UC. He can't imagine us having babies any other way.

Just my 2 cents. Love to write more but baby needs to nurse...

[Arora The Explorer]

Kate thank you so much for posting your story.

My DH is usually processes important things slower than most, but emerges from the other side so strong. Riding through his process is stressful at times, but I know that it's what needs to be done. Your account really feeds my soul!

[loriana]

Yes, Kate, your story really was needed here too! I also just having discovered UC (even tho my heart said it was possible way before I found out other women were feeling that way too) have felt like I've been on a rollercoaster too!

I just had reversal surgery in Dec. 2004, then 8 weeks later I concieved, and now I am 27 weeks and discovered UC just about 3 weeks ago. It really has been like a whirlwind!! But an amazing journey as well!

Trying to sound sure of myself when I know I'm on the right path to my dh even though it is different/unfamiliar to him has been a challenge. I don't want to "talk him into it", or "convince him", I just have wanted to share with him my feelings, thoughts, and show him some testimonies, or facts about hospital births vs. homebirth stats, etc- just basically what I'm finding- and let him ask any questions or raise his concerns without me getting emotionally upset, frustrated, or impatient with him. That has been the challenge-especially while pregnant, of coarse. :LOL

But, like you, feel that the stress and work it has taken to "present the facts" or research and try to express myself in a way that's not too pushy has been hard-but worth it because we are working through our fears and questions to come and see together that it IS better (to listen to yourself and feelings) and not just let it go.
I couldn't let it go anyway...it's like a switch on me- if I think about having our baby in the hospital I get tense, anxious, can't sleep at night, or have peace of mind, afraid, even nauseous, and downright depressed.

But if I think of having our babe at home- I feel so calm, relaxed, at peace, strong, joyful, and downright empowered, I feel unafraid and can really visualize it and feel excited.

I still have the details of getting the birth certificate, ssn, and the supplies on my mind, along with how do I gracefully pull out of prenatal care with my OB, and should I bother with trying to find a midwife "just in case" even though I feel I won't want her "helping" when the time comes. So I figure when I take care of these things by finding out then, I will have complete peace and so will my dh.


I think when he really realized how much I wanted an UC was when I absolutely dreaded seeing the OB anymore. I've only had a few visits but they seem like such a waste of my time. : I have really felt that I am already taking care of myself and have been, and am doing a fine job of it. The visits interrupt our day of homeschooling which is frustrating as well, since I feel they are unnessasary, honestly.He really agrees with these points and trusts me to be responsible. He's seen me do that already.
Having a UC just naturally goes along with how I feel already-to not be bothered with the impatient medical staff. (I was induced all three times unnessasarily)
And, he remembers how our first three births were and couldn't disagree that it was very stressful, and he's all for less stress this time. He also, has seen how much this means to me, and I think he really believes we can do it together because he's seen me labor and give birth naturally (in an unnatural place- the hospital) even tho I did it laying flat on my back in the hospital bed, with an anesthesigiolist coming in every 5 min. asking me if I wanted drugs or an epidural and seeing me tell them " NO, I am NOT going to change my mind..leave me alone!" -and him feeling like he was on the outside. We both want gentler birth experiences
and to feel more in control of things.

So, I guess in my situation, what we've already been through together speaks louder than anything in the way of persuasion. We are both persuaded that homebirth WILL be all that we hope it to be. We are just so glad for the second chance that God has given us and are very protective of our babies and birth from now on. We are just different parents all the way around, you might say.

Your testimony of how your dh felt afterwards in the end is such an encouragement to me. I want to share it with my own dh.

Congratulations on your new baby!

Looking forward to the birth of our sweet babe, : due Oct. 31,2005

: for a beautiful UC with my husband and children

[JessJoy]

What a great thread and VERY multifaceted!

When I said that "studying the process can only dispell fears" , I should have clarified that I meant the "unassisted birth" process as opposed to the medically managed process. It's true that we can easily fill our heads with alot of junk because that's what is mostly out there. That could definitely lead to more fear. Trying to think of everything that might go wrong is not what I meant by "studying". Simply addressing your fears by researching how other women UC'd was the point I was trying to make. Of course, this board is integral to that quest and I'm not coming down on women who are asking questions here. That's alot of what this board is about, right? That's certainly what I use it for!

Though I was excited about my UC decision, we had a lot of fears initially. I got on a lot of UC boards and read alot of books (UC friendly books) so that I had answers to all of my questions. Also, we both liked the Emergency Childbirth manual beacuse it was so straight forward and simple. It made us feel like any "emergency" could be handled by less intervention.

However, like one of you posted, alot of the birth is probably going to be instinctual. For me, I feel like in order to feel my instinct about what the baby needs during delivery, my fears will need to be quieted and hubby needs to be trusting in the process too. Reading the other posts underscores how different our needs are. Some of you choose to "feel it out" while others of us (probably first time mamas especially) want some facts because we've never gone through it before.

As for me and DH, he really wants my Mom present because she is a nurse and she had me and my sister at home in the early 70s. I resisted at first. Then, I acquiesed. It is important to me that he feel confident and that he has some say in the birth and that is a compromise that I was willing to make. He did all of the research that he needed to do to feel comfortable, but he still wants my Mom there. I am choosing to honor this. However, she is 4 hours away and you never know!

Thank you everyone for sharing your opinions and stories. Definitely food for thought!

Jess