Gifted starting kindergarten early..? - Page 5

[philomom]

Be careful. The trend here is to put boys in one year later, so they are ready for school. This pratice is called "red-shirting" and has led to my average kids being in school classrooms with boys very large for their peer group.

In my school, your gifted but younger possibly,smaller kid would look teeny weeny compared to others in his group. (unless he's big for his age)

[Silliest]

Originally Posted by lckrause

FYI... we already have a gifted support thread here: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=306933

As I type, it is listed right above this one in the Special Needs forum.

I was talking about supporting gifted *adults*.
That thread is for adults of any stripe who are helping gifted *kids*.

There's this weird social taboo about bringing one's own giftedness up in conversations about one's children.

There's an abundance of help out there for parents-of-GT-kids, but precious little for GT-adults.

One of the most emotionally wrenching hazards of seeking true peers amongst self-identified "parents of gifted kids" is that quite frankly, most of them are not gifted themselves, and have *no* idea what it's like to live this sort of life. Most of their kids are almost by definition, bright-average, really hard workers, lovely people, etc.

But being GT is experientially different. I have occasionally hit parents' groups, but they have been so uniformly demoralizing and demonizing if I dare open up even a tiny bit, that I Don't Go There anymore.

JK Rowling's "Muggles and Wizards" society makes for a good analogy.

Neither group as a lock on good or evil.
Heredity is an indicator of Wizard or Muggle progeny, but not a guarantee.
Neither group has exclusive rights to worthiness or humanity.

But very few would deny that they are *different* from one another, and their lives and perceptions are fundamentally not the same.

Schooling a Muggle in Magic would be rather pointless, and schooling a Wizard with Muggles could be downright hazardous! The Wizard needs the *opportunity* to learn to use his potential to the fullest, for good. Even if he doesn't always take that opportunity. The Muggle, likewise, has little need for a bunch of wand-flipping and gibberish that don't do anything for him.

Muggle parents need a different kind of support when they discover that their kids are Wizards, and Wizards whose kids are Squibs (unable to do magic) need different support, than do Wizard parents of Wizard kids, or Muggle Parents of Muggle kids.

All each group *really* needs is other people in the same boat.

But it can be hard to find each other sometimes.

Hence my suggestion to post a thread in "FYT" for gifted MOTHERS, rather than mothers of gifted KIDS.

[oldcrunchymom]

Originally Posted by Silliest

I was talking about supporting gifted *adults*.
That thread is for adults of any stripe who are helping gifted *kids*.

Hence my suggestion to post a thread in "FYT" for gifted MOTHERS, rather than mothers of gifted KIDS.

Sorry... I misunderstood. Didn't mean to offend. :

[Silliest]

I wasn't offended, just wanted to make the distinction *very* clear ;->

I get emphatic when I am passionate about things.

[Silliest]

re: redshirting.

ummm... I was with my age-peers and at least head-and-shoulders shorter than them for most of my life. There was another girl I went to school with who was also with age-peers (our birthdays were actually only weeks apart) who was 5'11" at age 10.

Physical size variation is -er- normal. There are pygmies and giants everywhere.
I don't live, work, travel, shop, conduct business or work out with people "my size" (because female-wise there are very few, and male wise, I'm still taller than average) So why should kids go to school with others of the same size? I mean if physical size was the issue, we'd have age-ranges all over the place! My old principal would've been stuck in 2rd grade forever <LOL!> He was about 4'7" ;->


Talk about "one size fits all" fallacies! <LOL!>

[Shiloh]

There's this weird social taboo about bringing one's own giftedness up in conversations about one's children.
=Yes I find it funny, like its 'bragging' trust me I am not bragging, all kids are different. I like most parents just want happy kids I don't really care HOW smart they are (just cause they are smart doesn't mean they won't give you grief later on

But I think its the 'smart' quality, people think gifted makes kids better.... People don't understand 'gifts'.

There's an abundance of help out there for parents-of-GT-kids, but precious little for GT-adults.
=Or for GT adults with GT children. Really I found most of the lit back in the day was helping 'average' parents understand their gifted child, but for us our gifted kids are a continuation of experiences etc.

But being GT is experientially different. I have occasionally hit parents' groups, but they have been so uniformly demoralizing and demonizing if I dare open up even a tiny bit, that I Don't Go There anymore.
=lol, yes the ones who 'trained seal' their kids, look what my kid can count to...I cringe... Flash card my boy and he could really come up with a few great ones...but why would I subject him to that type of torture so he can show off to others.....sigh....

My dh parents I think are still 'inshock' from parenting him as he wasn't anything typical. I think the falacy of gifted kids will sail through life, they have 'it made' really belittles the experience of being so different Its more of a struggle, but how many 'normal' moms can understand that its not always just a 'gift' but that it comes with other issues....that you really can't understand if you haven't been there.

Peers, sigh actually I have a few but I think I still suffer from that I am really not different keep an open mind and then feel let down by how 'simple' people think - I mean in the unresourceful, don't read a thing, don't think beyond the front door.....simple small lives. Whereas my mind seeks out new information like....a dog and a steak left on the counter! I need to feed my brain. Its a drive I am not GT cause I was 'born' this way My brain propells me to who I am, like an artist has to draw!

And the frustrations in bridging social gaps.....sigh....my sister who is smart but 'normal' is always frustrated that I am still me - not the talk about nothing, shop all the time, interested in clothes, fashion, etc. sister she really wanted. And although I can bridge the gap, she can't meet me anywhere near.....I've learned that sometimes you can't win, but really I like most people just want to be accepted for being myself, I don't use big words for anyother reason than my brain chose that one, I don't want to make anyone feel stupid, but why is my very presence the way I talk or the one I love, they are out to prove you MUST be wrong about something....see she's not that smart - wether its a misprononciation of a word, etc.

Why is intellgence intimidating or makes people feel less? When actually its sometimes my intelligence that makes me feel less able to connect.

Either you become a chameleon in everyones forest, but I really want my own tree to live in and be myself!

Thank god for the internet!

[BoyGirlTwinsAPMama]

Originally Posted by Charles Baudelaire

And what gifted program would THAT be? Mind being specific? From what I've heard and read and seen, gifted kids are treated like crap. Not like some privileged race of übermenschen. They are certainly not given half the accomodation and respect that developmentally delayed children are rightfully given; in fact, find your comment confusing.

Maybe I'M the one that is confused? I was reading the thread and seeing lots of gifted adults referring to their education in gifted programs in schools and saying that the gifted kids were being incredibly mean to the lesser but still gifted kids and treating the not gifted kids like crap because the exceptionally and profoundly gifted kids were being given the message in their schooling that they were far superior and better than anyone else. To my mind that sounded a lot like Germans being told they were better than Jews/blacks/handicapped people/etc... and so they could treat them like crap, thus my obviously obscure reference to the aryans. HTH.

And further, I do not feel like I was treated like crap in school. My father insisted on placing me in K at 4 and it worked out very well. He found a private school that accepted me since our PS would not. Unfortunately he passed away shortly after that and then my schooling was left in no one's hands since my mother did not understand giftedness at all. However, the teacher's were all nice to me in the PS's that I attended, I had many friends and liked my schoolwork and going to school. I was not teased or harrassed and always had nice boyfriends. I graduated 3rd in my class because I was too bored in high school to attend 12th grade other than the midterms and finals and some teachers objected to this. I had the usual teenage angst and went on to greater things in my life and am quite pleased with how my life turned out all in all. I feel like I had a good education but that it could have been much better if I had an advocate of some sorts to guide my class choices.

Maybe I don't know any better, but I liked school and always planned on sending my kids to PS. But now I am *thinking twice* because of all the stories I am hearing about no kid left behind and all the nasty stuff this is causing educators. And perhaps the school system just stinks now?

Also I am hearing that schools are not accommodating the way they were to me 30 years ago, even though they weren't perfect, it was pretty good. Of course, I want perfection and nothing short of it for my own 2 darlings!!! LOL.

[BoyGirlTwinsAPMama]

Originally Posted by philomom

In my school, your gifted but younger possibly,smaller kid would look teeny weeny compared to others in his group. (unless he's big for his age)

I'd have to put my just turned 2 yo into school right now if you wanted him to be the same height as the average kids in his kindergarten. The men in my family are tall, all well over 6' and my ds is following that height pattern. At church last week he was standing in the aisle after services and a 4 yo boy ran right up the aisle directly into him (I guess on accident?) and the 4 yo bounced right off my ds and fell down and my ds was just standing there a bit confused about why this kid was ricocheting off of him. It was funny.

[BoyGirlTwinsAPMama]

[QUOTE=Shiloh]And the frustrations in bridging social gaps.....sigh....my sister who is smart but 'normal' is always frustrated that I am still me - I don't use big words for anyother reason than my brain chose that one, I don't want to make anyone feel stupid, but why is my very presence the way I talk or the one I love, they are out to prove you MUST be wrong about something....see she's not that smart - wether its a misprononciation of a word, etc.

Why is intellgence intimidating or makes people feel less? When actually its sometimes my intelligence that makes me feel less able to connect.

Either you become a chameleon in everyones forest,QUOTE]
I am feeling really sorry for you and for me too. I had a wonderfully intelligent and gifted father that died of a heartattack when I was 6 and a wonderfully gifted sister who died 9 years ago of cancer and a wonderfully intelligent and gifted brother who died 19 years ago of cancer. At least I HAD them for a short while when we all grew up together and were just *normal* with each other. It gave me such a grounding to the world. But now that they are gone I realize the loneliness of many gifted people and how it could affect your whole life if you didn't have the incredible gift that I had during the formative years.

I have the good fortune of being married to a profoundly gifted man that is my intellectual superior (although he argues that point). And now I have the wonderful gift of having gifted twins, and thank God that they have each other! At least they will get to grow up being *normal* in their own house when the rest of the world is *remedial*, LOL!

And when I get sad about missing my siblings, I think about all the wonderful conversations I will get to have with my children as they mature. I'm planning on staying friends with them so I can reap all the rewards of all this work I am doing now for their/my benefit.

[Shiloh]

am feeling really sorry for you and for me too.
=Thats a big loss of not only family but peers.

I was lucky that I had my mother who was extremely bright, my dad the abstract intellectual who let me always dream and my mind to be free. But my sister - sigh - is very very normal....

I have the good fortune of being married to a profoundly gifted man that is my intellectual superior (although he argues that point).
=lol me too, my dh is a genius - profoundly gifted in math/sci/comp. wheras me I am a generalist....I think is common in the gifted female..

And now I have the wonderful gift of having gifted twins, and thank God that they have each other! At least they will get to grow up being *normal* in their own house when the rest of the world is *remedial*, LOL!
=lol so true!

And when I get sad about missing my siblings, I think about all the wonderful conversations I will get to have with my children as they mature. I'm planning on staying friends with them so I can reap all the rewards of all this work I am doing now for their/my benefit.
=lol we were having that conversation today - why pressure push kids away because they can be such nice companions after 20-30 years of hard work ;()

[BoyGirlTwinsAPMama]

[QUOTE=Shiloh]my dh is a genius - profoundly gifted in math/sci/comp. wheras me I am a generalist....I think is common in the gifted female..
QUOTE]
Are you sure we aren't married to the same guy? Too funny. Mine too. Cool news. He just got a new job working graveyard shift (10p-6a) so he can be home more with the kids in the morning. We are a bit apprehensive about the hours but he never sleeps at night anyways, so he figured he'd try actually getting paid for not sleeping.

On the topic of gifted math, my dd is definitely math gifted. I always loved math, sounds stupid, but I didn't do well in Calculus (never went, I think once or twice, but other than that), I am already worrying that I won't be able to help her with her math in a few years. Does anyone just freak out when they think about what they want to teach their kids and wonder if they can't teach it all to them? Is it weird to want to private tutor your kids so you know they are learning the stuff they are capable of learning in a non-competitive environment? Am I being too controlling like one of my best (non-gifted) friends just told me on the phone tonight? I am a worry wort!

Since they are too young to be accepted to preschool anywhere near me, I have decided to try teaching the twins pre-school this year and see how my unschooling goes to decide if I want to enroll them in a preschool next year when they are 3. I have a lot of activities that we do regularly and I am going to try to make a more scheduled week so that I don't miss some out of stupid busy-ness, like going every week to the zoo and aquarium. There's so much that they miss in just a short visit, I figure if we go every week instead of just once a month then we can get more in depth in the experience each time, you know, just look at one type of animal and really observe that, like the butterflies or the monkeys.

I read about mothers planning to homeschool and am openly wondering if you have to relearn what you knew years ago or did you just remember it all? I do NOT remember it all, my memory is shot and I truly wonder if I could homeschool my kids if I needed to. Physics was a bad subject for me too, I never went so I never learned it, actually didn't enjoy it. Chemistry was a good one, and so on, I just wonder about my profiency in the subjects. I know I could at least get them thru kindergarten (their gifted K, which will probably be around Grade3-4 for a normal kid) but then I read about the Waldorf shapes leading into natural reading and I thought I should be doing that with them right now! I feel so incompetent when it comes to something so serious as their education.

Hmmm.... what do you all teach your homeschooled kids? And how? Do you follow textbooks? Maybe I need to start a new thread about homeschooling gifted kids and how. I am really interested in it it seems like a more natural approach than a gifted school that I am researching(Long Island School for the Gifted, anyone know about it?). I know that at least I am mildly to very interested in homeschooling until K and then I was thinking I could try to get them advanced placements in PS or a good private school that understands giftedness (haha, I am still trying to find one). But if the kids are 5 years old and tested to be at Grade 4, can a PS or Private School really insist on them going into their K based on their age? Does anyone know about this?

[Silliest]

As far as gifted homeschooling goes, have you been following the gifted kids thread? I thnk that's come up there a few times.
My first-stop resource for gifted stuff is www.hoagies.com, and I know there are lots of links there for HSing groups and info. THere's also www.learninfreedom.org, owned by a very GT guy, which I have found very helpful in adjusting my attitude towartd schools and teachers.

In short, you don't have to know anything to teach your own kids at home, you just have to be willing to learn along wtih them, and able to access resources. With the internet, resources, even for higher math, are not a problem.

Mostly, though, don't get ahead of yourself. If your kids are ready for calculus and physics in pre-k, you worry about that then, if they're not, wok on what they *are* ready for, and keep your eye out for clues about what they might find interesting.

My 5yo was very interested in letter-forms and reading before she went to a Waldorf-influenced daycare for a few months. around age 2.5 She is now convinced that she is too little to read, and can't read until she goes to real school. (Don't tell her that starfall.com has her reading already <LOL!>)

I cannot begin to tell you how that infuriates me. I wouldn't touch Waldorf again if we got paid to send her. She will be going to a regular public K this year, but I'll be keeping a close eye on things there. If I hear any stingy librarian stories or "you're not old enough to learn that" crap, it will be taken care of, or she will be outta there.

[Shiloh]

[QUOTE=Shiloh]my dh is a genius - profoundly gifted in math/sci/comp. wheras me I am a generalist....I think is common in the gifted female..
QUOTE]
Are you sure we aren't married to the same guy? Too funny. Mine too.
=But maybe its because as strong intelligent women we could only really respect a man if he was profoundly gifted Really I'd drive a 'smart' guy nuts

Cool news. He just got a new job working graveyard shift (10p-6a) so he can be home more with the kids in the morning. We are a bit apprehensive about the hours but he never sleeps at night anyways, so he figured he'd try actually getting paid for not sleeping.
=LOL MINE TOO, 5 hours is enough for him, 7 hours is holidays and anything over 8 he's deathly sick!

On the topic of gifted math, my dd is definitely math gifted. I always loved math, sounds stupid, but I didn't do well in Calculus (never went, I think once or twice, but other than that),
=lol me too, Finite, Algebra but Calculus I got bored...

I am already worrying that I won't be able to help her with her math in a few years. Does anyone just freak out when they think about what they want to teach their kids and wonder if they can't teach it all to them?
= DO NOT HELP YOUR KIDS my mom is a math teacher, now a math professor at university - I never let her help me They got to figure it out on their own, or get a tutor but parents tutoring doesn't work as you know when your kid is lying, distracted, frustrated....


I read about mothers planning to homeschool and am openly wondering if you have to relearn what you knew years ago or did you just remember it all?
=HA, I think you'd be relearning alot....of things you never liked like sentence structure...or things you never learned - I never learned phonics as I learned to read at 2.5 years old, and never souned out a thing....


Hmmm.... what do you all teach your homeschooled kids? And how? Do you follow textbooks? Maybe I need to start a new thread about homeschooling gifted kids and how.
=Sure! I think gifted kids would do self study pretty easily and would want to explore/experience more than seat work.

=