Healing the gut tribe : August - Page 2

[moneca]

Jane - I haven't read the whole article on the gap, but am looking forward to it. The clips you posted were very interesting and make perfect sense.

I just wanted to post my "building instructions" for my cheap and perfect contraption.

First, If you have an electric oven you could try placing a 60 watt bulb in for the oven light and leaving it on (the light not the oven) for 24 hours - longer to let the oven heat up first. Test the temp by placing a glass jar with screw on lid filled with water in the oven. Make sure your water is 100 -110 when placing it in the oven and check the temp every 4 hours or so to make sure it is holding 100 - 110. bacteria start to die at 117 and BTVC suggests 100-110. I would have used this EASY pathway if it had been an option. You could make as much yoghurt at one time as your oven will hold.

My way - Electric heating pad on the bottom. Take a large pot (mine is 16 liters, but I would have bought the 20 liter if it was available) with a lid. I can make up to 2 gallons at a time with the 16 liter. Fill it with water to about 5 inches from the top with water. I make sure the water is around 105 deg. Place something in the bottom of the pot (can use a baby food lid if just doing one jar of yoghurt. When I make 2 or more I use a metal trivit that has a rubber coating). You don't want a direct heat source directly below your yoghurt. It will keep the bottom up to 15 deg hotter than the top (trust me - I made this error). You could also use a ceramic ramekin. Just be sure to turn the lid or ramekin upside down once it is submerged to release the air pocket as this may interfere with the conduction ( not really sure I just release the bubble). Place the lid on the pot and turn on your heating pad. Most will have to run it on medium. I run mine on low to keep a 104-106 deg temp.
Heat your milk to 180 deg for 2 minutes on the stove. Make sure to wash everything that touches the milk and yoghurt right before using. THere are airborne yeast that can otherwise land on your utensils and pots. They will culture beautifully just like the good guys .
I fill my sink with cold water and put the pot of milk in there with the lid. It takes the temp down within 5 minutes. Once the temp of the milk decreases to 110 you can add your starter or yoghurt. I use starter - yogourmet. I mix the packets in about 1 cup of milk and make sure there are no clumps. Introducing lots of air by using a wisk or vigorous mixing will decrease you end good beastie count. Add the rest of the milk and mix with a spoon to be sure the culture is mixed with the entire batch.
If using a glass yoghurt container ( I use 1/2 gallon mason jars - you can buy a case of 6 at the hardware store for about 10 dollars ) I find that the yoghurt temp maintains at the same temp to one degree off of the water temp. This way you can just check your water temp every four hours or so instead of opening your yoghurt container to check temp which is not a good idea anyway. I culture mine for 25 hours just to be sure all the lactose has been converted. Carefully remove yoghurt container and place in the BACK of the fridge for 8 hours without touching it. The yoghurt will keep for 3 weeks, but the good beasties start to die after 2 weeks.
Good luck. Gotta run.

Peace,

[Panserbjorne]

Oh, this is gonna be tough! That was a good post regarding breastfeeding, and I thank you for it. It's what my LC and I have been working on forever. I have DEFINITE gut issues. In fact, I have been treated as though I have celiac disease for awhile now, but things haven't improved 100%. I suppose I could try the SCD I just need to locate a book to make sure I"m doing it properly. I'm just gonna have to commit to chicken and eggs for a bit.
In light of this we clearly haven't been doing the SCD properly for my girl. But the good news is between the chicken, eggs and carrots she's eating more than she has in a long time. THe one thing that intrigues me though is that she takes a good hour and a half to eat an egg and she will only eat it in rice sized bites. She gags if she puts any more in her mouth. Could that be a part of this? Or is it just that she isn't at all used to solid food?
Quillian is on it as well. It's not all that difficult, but I am cheating my way into it. There is nothing in the world that will get that kid to eat carrots, so I've been juicing them. Also I put mashed, raw zucchini in his eggs. We're getting there. I'm sure it will make alot more sense after I read the book.

[sarahariz]

Thanks, Moneca, for the instructions. The water bath contraption sounds like it will work much better. I made some yogurt this weekend, and ended up putting the pot of yogurt directly on top of the pad, even though the pad had warnings about having anything on top of it and I was afraid I'd burn the house down. I tried putting it on the side of the pot but it didn't keep the temp high enough. What you say makes since about the temp being too hot on the bottom, if you put the pot directly on the pad.

Does it matter what type of container you make the yogurt in? I just used the saucepan (with lid) that I used to heat the milk in.

Jane, great article on the GAP! I will be interested to see if you can get the book and what you think of it. You are inspiring me to try the SCD! My DH and I think we both have yeast because we both have a lot of bloating. I did feel better when I was on the elimination diet. It would be interesting to see how I would feel on the SCD. I do have the book and have read it, so I know what is involved.

I have been very conservative with DD in terms of giving her food. At some point I mixed some rice cereal with water, and she didn't want it. So I didn't give her any. She never has had formula. All she really likes eating is meat and some fruits, and a few cooked greens. The one time I gave her rice, several months ago, it did come out whole in her stool. My friends feed their babies "Veggie Bootie," which is some sort of health food version of a cheese puff, which I didn't want to give her. Interestingly, she isn't interested in the health food "junk food" that other moms give their children. Luckily I had decided not to vaccinate, so I didn't have that as an issue with her. I think her gut flora that she got from me probably were not ideal, then the antibiotics I took when she was little didn't help. When I look back at the pics I took when she had the eczema, she did not look happy... in any of the pics I took at that time! I'm sure her stomach was hurting.

[moneca]

For those of you in stage one :
The banana pancakes are wonderful, but I found a way to make them better.
Mix two banana (after mashing) with 3 omega 3 eggs (I found that purred cooked mango chunks also work well and give some variety). Add 1 - 2 Tbsp. of coconut oil. It makes the pancakes more fluffy and I don't need to tell you all about the benefits of coconut oil.

Sarah - Check out the recipes on www.pecanbread.com You might find something for Jasmine. Not sure about making yoghurt in a pot. I feel better doing everything in glass, but try it and let me know. Remember that the only way for us to check and detrmine if the cultures are alive is to make a new batch of yoghurt from the old one and see if you get a solid end product. I would suggest doing this after your first batch to check live bacterial count. This way you won't waste money on organic milk and starter if the bugs aren't alive. I found that you will still have firm yoghurt results from using a starter even if the product is overheated and almost all the good beasties are killed by the time you get to 24 hours.

Best,

[MamaMonica]

Mountainmon, thanks for referring me to this thread. The boards are so big now it is easy to miss things.

The problem I've had with goat yogurt is getting ds to eat it. The texture and taste is different. Any tips on overcoming that? I have to throw out three jars I made last month that are still in the fridge.

Ds loves goat milk, though- so it's not the goat taste.

What about nut allergies? Ds can't have any nuts without severe reaction and limited eggs (he doesn't like eggs).

His favorite food is buffalo. Right now he lives on goat milk, raw carrots, apples, buffalo, beef, oatmeal (chewy), occasional rice, cheese and yogurt (cow milk). Sometimes turkey or chicken, rice cakes or corn chips, popcorn, and salsa, fruit leather. He seems to like chewy, crunchy, spicy foods and has textural issues with many cheeses and soft foods.

I would like to get the corn out, as well as fruit leather, rice cakes and oatmeal but need some substitutions.

He is still nursing very often- over 3 years.

(I have the SCD book and was on the diet last year for a month til I reacted to almonds/peacans and gave up).

Any suggestions are appreciated. Thanks!

[Panserbjorne]

So we got our allergy test results back and I am lost. Both kids are allergic to cashew butter and banana, one to eggs, both to avacado etc, etc, etc. My doc says that this particular test is very accurate and to avoid all allergens. How can I possibly heal their guts with these lists? Is it possible to do SCD without eggs, banana, nuts and a whole host of other stuff? THis is going to be REALLY tough.

[moneca]

Monica and Elisabeth -
You've got some limited diets, but I do believe it is possible. Bear with me... .

Monica -

You're smart to stay away from all nuts. This keeps you from al the baked goods . Let see... the goatmilk . I'm sure you've tried smoothies made from the raw goatmilk yoghurt with some fruit and honey. If he doesn't go for these you could freeze the smoothie and make popsicles - perfect for this weather and the good beasties will survive the freezing. If you are really feeling energetic you could buy frozen mango or pineapple chunks, cook them in the oven, puree them and then layer them with the yoghurt in a popsicle mold. Put the puree in first for about a half inch then let it freeze. Repeat with the yoghurt and make several layers. You could even use different purees for multiple colors. Just a thought. I'd hate for you to go to all that work and then him not eat it . You could also make popsicles out of the cooked pureed fruit. I know that all the vitamins and enzymes are gone if you cook the fruit and veggies, but stage one calls for only cooked.

Will he eat wild alaskan salmon? Dd loves it grilled with lemon juice, sea salt, and dill.

Free range buffalo is wonderful. That is what I give dd. You can mix about 2 burgers worth with an omega 3 egg and an avacado and make a meatloaf out of the mixture. I also make the banana pancakes. Sometimes I make it with mango puree. Three omega 3 eggs, two bananas, 1 tbsp coconut oil (don't know if it's risky to use this with nut allergies) and make pancakes. Can you give him raw goatmilk cheese? Alta Dena makes the one we eat. Check out www.pecanbread.com or more recipes and I'll try to stimulate the brain a bit more .

Elisabeth -
What kind of allergy tests were they? Igg, Ige, Iga? We had them all done. It's possible and I'll help you as much as I can. I hope it's not Selkie that is allergic to eggs since she is the one that really needs this diet. Are you going to try the coconut milk yoghurt? Well, no more banana pancakes - bummer! Coconut oil ( if you can take it with nut allergies?), olive oil, , wild alaskan salmon, and ghee (nonclarified butter = no caesin) can give you some fat which I know is important for Selkie. You didn't say anything about being allergic to milk and I know you buy raw goat milk. Does that mean you could try raw goat milk yoghurt for Selkie and mabey some raw goat cheese? You can still cook and puree the mango and other fruits. Can do popsicles if you need to. Taking out nuts, eggs, and avacado takes away a lot of your good fats .
I'll keep thinking and get back to you. I do think you need to sit down with your ND and discuss all this. Sounds like she isn't absorbing any of the supplements that you're giving her because her digestion is so impaired so we have to find a way to make this work. Jane are you out there? Can you help?

[mlleoiseau]

Hi, this sounds like an intriguing thread. I'll admit I haven't totally read the old thread yet.
Dd, (19 months), has food allergies and eczema. I really believe it has to do with her gut. At three months, her stools changed from the normal breastfed ones to really smelly ones and has never gone back to normal. (the ped said the change was normal.) That was also about the time her cradle cap got really bad and her eczema spread over her body. She hadn't been on meds, not been vaccinated and I hadn't been on anything either. I decided to cut out the main allergens from my diet and finally convinced the ped to do allergy testing. She's allergic to milk (anaphylactic), wheat and dogs. Since then I've also found that she can't tolerate spinach, soy, beans, corn, berries. She also reacts to contact with almond oil.
I have really been trying to heal her. I heard so many good things about Primal Defense that I bought it for her. She takes that 2 times a day. And I give her aloe vera juice and a multivitamin. She also takes floradix iron for anemia. I would love to give her essential fatty acids but I can't seem to get her to take them. Even when I mix them in her food. She's also a very picky eater.
I would love to make coconut milk yogurt and am planning to experiment in the next few weeks. I was planning to use probiotics as the starter although I'm not sure which one. (She has reacted to the Nature's Way Reuterii in the past.) Which strains are the best?
I read the book, Breaking the Vicious Cycle, but quite frankly it depressed me. I don't see how I could do that for us as her allergist wants us to continue avoiding the major allergens (nuts, soy, eggs, milk, seafood, wheat). And I'm too afraid to try goat's milk due to the high percentage of milk allergic people not being able to tolerate it.
Any advice? How doable is the SCD if the major allergens need to be avoided?
Also, what about the aloe is bad? And why is the Primal Defense bad? I have been thinking about switching from that to something else because I can't really see that it helps.
Thanks in advance for the encouragement and advice.
Deborah

[RiceMomma]

I've been reading alot of what you all have been saying about healing the gut. With regards to this SCD diet, my gal gets eczema all over her body- she is 2.5 years old and she's been like this for a little over a year now. She is allergic to soy, peanuts, eggs, tree nuts, strawberries, pineapple, oranges, peas and fish. Even when we avoid everything that we know about, she's still itchy. Stress makes her really itchy too. Would she be able to do this diet with all those allergies?

What about other ways to heal the gut? The problem is an overgrowth of yeast, right? First we need to clear that out and then heal the tissue and encourage proper flora? Theoretically, what about taking something like Diflucan? Just a random thought I had--I'm not into taking drugs. Are there other natural ways to heal the gut, specifically with herbs? I found a "gut-healing" recipe in Aviva Jill Romm's Naturally Healthy babies and children that I'm brewing up for my little gal. Can we kill the yeast with herbs? I've been giving her yogurt (not homemade- that's something I need to start doing...) and borage seed oil twice a day and we're seeing improvement with that.

[sarahariz]

Originally Posted by mountainmon

Add 1 - 2 Tbsp. of coconut oil. It makes the pancakes more fluffy and I don't need to tell you all about the benefits of coconut oil.

Thanks, Moneca, for the idea re the banana pancakes. I tried them for the first time the other day. DD wouldn't eat them, but I did, although I didn't particularly like them

My goat milk yogurt I made in a stainless steel pot seemed to be alright... it was the first batch I had made that didn't get way too hot, although for part of the time it wasn't warm enough... I did it for about 30 hrs. It was fairly liquidy. I used an organic yogurt for the starter, so maybe next time I'll try a real starter. I ate some yesterday and I liked it. It hasn't seemed to cause any reaction in Jasmine's skin.

Moneca, your dedication and ideas are great!

[moneca]

I want to list Sierra's supplements that have been suggested or approved by our ND who we . All the supplements are SCD legal. I brought this over from the allergy forum where it was originally posted to help out mamas who have joined us since then.

1. Kirkman labs hypoallergenic multivitamin http://www.kirkmanlabs.com/
2. Kirkman labs Colustrum Gold - This was suggested by the woman who started the pecanbread site. The product is caesin free and speeds the healing of the gut. http://www.kirkmanlabs.com/
3. Nordic naturals Berrykeen Fish Oil www.nordicnaturals.com
4. Glutamine - This is an amino acid that repairs the microscopic hairlike structures in the small intestine that are necessary for food to be absorbed.
5. Houston SCD Zyme Prime - These are enzymes that help digest fats, proteins, and carbs and are helpful while the digestion is still impaired and the gut is healing. This helps to reduce digestion time and improve absorbtion since the foods are fully digested. We add them to snacks and meals. http://www.houstonni.com/
6. Neuroscience Trava Cor - Our ND ordered a urine test to check Sierra's neurotransmitter levels since many are manufactured in the gut. All levels were off and her serotonin was very low. These are amino acids that support neurotransmitter levels. http://www.neurorelief.com/

Hope this helps .

Peace,

[moneca]

Wow you're going to make me really think hard . I'm learning more as I try to answer questions .

Sarah - Yours is the easiest so I'll start there. Goat milk yoghurt is usually thinner than cow milk yoghurt. I make dd's in the exact same way as I make mine, but her yoghurt is much thinner. Remember if the yoghurt does not hold 100-110 for 24 hours then there is still some lactose in the batch as not all has been converted to galactose. You're learning through trial and error just like myself. Welcome to the club .

Deborah - If dd was still exclusively BF at 3 months then her stools should have smelled the same. Sierra had only BM through 6 mo and her poos always had that sweet breastmilk smell . Wow, I miss those innocent little diapers :LOL . You were very wise to not vaccinate. SCD is possible with all your limitations, but it will make things harder. The only way to determine if your dd has dysbiosis (an imbalance in the gut flora that damages digestion and absorbtion) is to send stool in for a CDSA test from Great Smokies Lab http://www.gsdl.com/home/assessments/cdsa/appguide/
This was the only test that gave me any information. You are wise to avoid goat milk as 90% of children with dairy allergies also have goat milk allergy. I would suggest you go to www.pecanbread.com and look at the recipe section. THis is a site specific to kids on the spectrum that are on the SCD diet. Many kids on the spectrum have MULTIPLE allergies and texture issues that make feeding very difficult. Jody Goddard started that site and she is one of the available counselors. I would suggest you set up a session with her as she is commonly working with children with multiple allergies who start the diet. She is an incredible source of wisdom [e-mail] . I actually paid her to answer lots of questions I had when I first started the diet. She only charges $50.00 for a two hour phone session. She can make this diet possible for anyone.
It is important to remember that an injured gut cannot digest or absorb properly. I know that Elisabeth has Selkie on the floradix and her iron levels are still not coming up. If there is poor absorbtion it does not matter how many supplements you give - they're just passing through until you start to heal the gut. The only alternative is to give it IV and who want to put their babe through that ? My previous post suggests a wonderful EFA that Sierra loves when you get to the point of giving that supplement.
There is nothing wrong with aloe juice (it is a wonderful gut healer as far as injured tissue) or primal deffense IMO. The problem is that they are not allowed on the SCD due to ingredients in the primal deffense and the chemical comp. of the aloe juice.

Ricemama - Yes, I believe you could do this. I would also suggest that you go to www.pecanbread.com to view recipes and www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info to look at a list of legal and illegal foods. Write down everything that is legal that your babe can eat. If you can make a diet of these foods go for it. If it seems too hard I would also suggest contacting Jody Goddard as she deals with many diet limitations quite frequently. No, the problem is not only with yeast, but also with many "bad bacteria" that are out of balance with the "good bacteria".

I hope this helps. Let me know if I skipped anything .

Peace,

[MamaMonica]

Thanks, mountainmon! You are a wealth of good info. :

I haven't tried popsicles with a yogurt smoothie- I'll give that a try. We do eat goat cheese- cheddar and soft cheese. He seems to do much better with goat dairy, although has no overt reaction to dairy (I did an elimination with no change).

I'm going to try the pancakes tonight. The way my kids eat, they'll probably want a piece of cheese on top.

Salmon is a good idea. Need to buy that again.

Do any other kids do poorly with chicken? I just made the connection last night.

[RiceMomma]

Thanks so much for answering my questions/musings. I've known for a long time that there was something wrong inside my daughters body, but didn't know what or how to fix it.

[starbarrett]

I first want to say thanks to the original mamas of the thread. I have learned so much in reading the thread and the links. Such a great resource.

I just finished reading Breaking the Vicious Cycle, and I have to talk about it! She does a great job at breaking the biologic principles down for the lay-person. I learned quite a bit. But, I have to say I was struck by how much it felt like "nutritional history". It's a highly referenced article, very reliant on research to support it's hypothesis, and it struck me that the references were to research done somewhere between the 60s and 80s. I was especially struck when I read the line "very recent research indicates" which referrenced to a study in 1984-- that was 20 years ago! And saccharine and canned fish are SCD approved. It's easy enough to update the diet in practice using common sense and current knowledge, and as the digestive system hasn't changed in 2 decades, I'm sure that most of it is still relevent. Especially in light of mountainmom's success in healing Siera. However, it just struck me that though my copy was the 9th edition copyrighted in 2002, that no one had bothered to update the text. It makes me wonder if there's more than just saccharine that is outdated about her approved foods.

[JaneS]

Just have time for a quick post:

RE: aloe
I seem to remember that there is a derivation of latex or something in aloe that increases diarrhea and is irritating to the intestines. Here is the SCD info on it, "Aloe Vera - Illegal - It contains mucilaginous polysaccharides as well as increasing the release of tumor necrosis factor which is associated with IBD inflammation and increased immune stimulation. "

SCD info on Primal Defense: http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.i...al_defense.htm

The only probiotics SCD recommends are lactobacillus acidophilus, bulgarius and thermophilus.

Since I gave DS "Baby Jarro-dophilus" for over a year based on many positive recs... and then when his stool was tested he was 4+ for bifidus and negative for acidophilus, (and 4+ for several pathogenic bacteria) I do think SCD has something here. Bifidus was not doing the job and could have been contributing to the problem... It was described in the book as being bifidus dominant after the nursing period (meaning after starting solid food) was a chief symptom of celiac disease.

There are tons of recs everywhere for supposedly good probiotics, some people do well, some not. Personally I'm sticking with the SCD recs for now b/c the diet is clinically tested, and I have seen evidence of what were doing before not working for us.

[JaneS]

Amber, welcome!

Glad to hear your comments...

I have the more recent addition, not sure if it's different, but there is at least one reference to a groundbreaking 1991 study published in the Lancet by J.O. Hunter re: allergies not being allergies, but improper digestion of food. (Hey, didn't I have that idea too? :LOL)

Also in the autism section, she referenced a study of only a few years ago.

I agree with you re: updating, but really, I'm comforted by the fact that there is a real scientific theory behind the recommendation of certain things. Yes, saccharine might not be good for you, and I would never use it... but chemically it will not disrupt what the diet is trying to achive, ykwim?

It's sad that this diet has been in practice for what, over 60 years since devised by Dr. Sidney Haas... and most of the medical community has barely given it a glance, nevermind rigorous testing and debate.

[JaneS]

Chapter on autism from the most recent edition of the BTVC book explains more about how food allergies are caused by bacterial overgrowth and improper function of gut:
http://www.pecanbread.com/BTVCautismchapter.html

[starbarrett]

I suppose if it ain't broke don't fix it. :LOL

You really think that the medical community has done no further research on this line of healing and that there are no recent studies to reference? I imagine with what seems like a irritible bowel syndrome epidemic and all the controversy about autism that there has to be some recent research from the nutritional science community at least. It is sad that Drs refuse to heal via nutrition. Everybody wants a magic pill. I have two aunts and two cousins who are dibilitated by digestive disorders. They've been battling them for years, going to drs. Never once have they heard of SCD.

[moneca]

Amber ,

Glad to have you join us. Yes, BTVC suggests some things that make me cringe. There is no mention of the importance of enzymes or organics. I suggest reading the Maker's Diet by Jordan Rubin after BTVC to help you "purify" the SCD. Nourishing Traditions by Sally Fallon is also filled with nutritional wisdom for when you have extra time. I have altered Sierra's diet, but kept it SCD legal. We only give her organic. I give her goat milk yoghurt (easier to digest than cow milk which is VERY important when the gut and digestion are already impaired), raw goat cheese (the enzymes are still present in raw products which also assist digestion), and I give her a couple of oz. of carrot juice per day dilluted with an equal amount of spring water (the carrot juice is easily assimilated even in the sickest of guts, has vitamins, and contains enzymes). I can't wait to start her on raw fruits and veggies !

Peace,