sad Dad hears "I don't like you daddy!" - Page 2

[mirlee]

Thanks for the response, aredee. Yup, we still breastfeed. It seems to be something Sam isn't willing to give up yet. I hadn't thought of thinking along Freudian lines, but this is definitely a possibility. He shows me boatloads of affection. He has recently decided he wants to kiss me. Sometimes it's my cheeck, or my hand. This morning, he had to kiss my belly. I was still laying in bed and it was slightly exposed. With his dad, he is more likely to want to wrestle and play rough.


I am glad that your son is doing better. I am sure that things will get much better for you. Your news is reassuring to those of us just entering this phase.

[Dov]

Mirlee,

Yeah, it hurts me too, usually in public. I live in a community where SAHD's are regarded with much suspicion so in public when my DS goes into Oedipal mode it feels like reinforcement of the very wrong negative view of SAHD's by our community. I've learned to just never mind when he's doing this. He's only 3 anyway.

One thing that has helped though is that his Mama is very firm with him about letting him know that she's not happy with his epithets (she doesn't us e that word of course, you know what I mean) and that she's on Dad's side no matter what. Of course this is only in extreme cases because mostly we ignore his schtick, knowing it'll pass.

My kids tend to be really rough on Mama because she's not the one that's home and that drives her crazy (and me too). I'm very appreciative of her conscious reminders to me that his "I hate you Daddy" and others don't mean anything right now except, "I'm asserting my identity as a sexual being" as only a 3 yo boy can. I try to do the same for her and it's really been a boost in our sense of couplehood (oddly enough).

Then recently, DS and I were out hiking at the ocean and he jumped onto my leg, threw his head back with a loud howl and told me that I was his bestest friend, and his favorite Daddy. Oh yeah, being Dad is great.

[mirlee]

Dov, thanks so much for your reply. I have been observing Sam's behavior toward his dad this last week and things are a little better than before. I haven't heard any I hate you's and dad hasn't said anything about hearing them. This, for today especially is a good thing, because Sam is ill and dad is home with him. Last night, Sam insisted that dad be the one to read the bedtime stories. I was the one he didn't like, well, at least until it was time for bed anyway.

I have told Sam that his comments about hating his dad hurt me too. I will have to make sure that I tell him this everytime he says those words.

I am going to keep a good ear out for the I hate you's. I am thinking that it could be discipline related. Dad is a more stern disciplinarian. Not that I'm a whimp, Dad's voice is bigger so he sounds meaner.

[El Casey S]

DS says this everyonce in a while to DH, and I know it hurts - DS tries so hard to be a good father - and he also tries to ignore it - his father would have hit the roof if DH said anything like that . . . so I really like the responses that say DS says that because he may - and it is a good sign. On the other hand - DH & I are much different - I'm more of a lassie faire lets see where the mood takes us and ride with it type person although I am actually strickter on another level and more confident in my parenting and DH is a more controlled person - so I think DS feels he can get away with more from me - feels controlled by DH - and responds with "I hate you!" I also think Oedipus plays a strong role here - I nursed him over 3 years and am a more persistant active snuggler - and he is openly jealous of DH when we kiss.

One thing we've started doing is - when DS says those things I start kissing Papi and saying, "OOoooo but I love Papi!!" And then DS trys to kiss me too, while I'm kissing Papi - and then Papi kisses DS, then it gets to be a fun family game where everyone is in everyone's face at the same time and DS ends up kissing Papi lots and then I slip out and let the two guys "rebond".

edited for corrections

[Megs Mom]

El Casey, I just love your response! I'm going to keep it in mind if we ever fact this.

[whizzie]

Our 3yo has been experimenting with the "i don't love you", "I don't want you" statements. I find that he usually means that he's not into any contact with that parent at that moment. So I ask him "would you like to continue [fill in whatever it was that he was doing when he said it]? Usually followed by a yes. Or he wants to be alone. Sometimes he'll say it when he really prefers the other parent to be with him for whatever it is is going on at that point.
For us it feels like it's a statement of individuality, he's realized that he's a person on his own, with his own needs and feelings, and that he's got a control over what happens. So I try to reword it for him in more appropriate terms, since I feel often that his "I don't love you" comments are more of an inadequate way of expressing himself than anything else. He's trying to say *something* and those are the words that he's got so far.
Since we started doing this, he's been learning how to indicate that he needs to have some time on his own (mama, I don't want you"... meaning "mama, I would really like to play with the train on my own, butt out", he's now saying "mama, I want papa to bring me to bed tonight" ("mama, I don't love you" in response to my "I love you"... meaning that he's not feeling the contact with me that I'm wanting to feel with him). Also, sometimes I just translate the "I don't love you" phrases into "Are you feeling upset about something?", to which he usually just says Yes, and then he tries to fill in whatever it is that he is disappointed about.

Translating the upsetting phrases into different words has really helped him. He now thinks twice, and has even come to understand and use the phrase: "mama, i'm trying to say something but I don't have all the words." And then we can sit down together and figure out which words he is looking for.

Doesn't take away from the pain that it causes to hear the words. All the love and care we put into raising our kids, all the insecurities it touches on to hear those words spoken by our little ones.... but perhaps it helps to know that they do not have the full scope of the meaning that those words have for us. Their vocab is just starting out... where they use the word "hate", they might mean that they are sad about something that you did, or angry, or confused... hate is much more neutral for them than it is for us. Trying to find out what the real message is behind the hurtful phrase is very helpful.

And I totally second the sexuality points that RachelGS makes at the beginning of this thread.

[Megs Mom]

Whizzie? That's amazing! I really appreciate the stories and the detail, and will keep it in mind for when we need it!

[G-Dawg]

This is Mr. G-Dawg.
My dd is now 4 and went through a phase where she would get frustrated with us. When we refused to give her something she wanted, she would begin to try any method she could think of.

In educational psychology, I learned in these situations children will continue to try anything they can think of to get what they want. They may start by asking nicely, and then move on to more inappropriate responses. Each response falls into a hierarchy according to which one produces the desired result. If children are rewarded, when appropriate, for asking nicely, eventually that will take it's rightful place at the top of the heirarchy. When we cave in to tantrums or insulting language they place that response first because it has produced the most recent result.

After the heat of the moment when she was relaxed, we would sit and talk about how it hurts feelings to say that. Also we help her recognize that it still didn't produce the desired result. That phase was rather short lived. Sometimes when she is tired or hungry, or if she wants something really bad, she may try again, but it is rare.

Most importantly, realize that it has nothing personal to do with you. It is someone new to this world trying to figure out how to get what they want. The fact that they see you as someone who can help meet their needs makes this behavior a backhanded compliment. Hang in there.

[aredee]

Good thoughts, G-Dawg, thanks for your reply.