Anyone EXCLUSIVELY babywear? - Page 6

[hubris]

I sometimes babywear, sometimes carry babe in my actual arms, sometimes use a stroller or infant seat. It all depends on what's happening, what baby needs, what my abilities are at the moment. I guess you could say that I *exclusively* use whatever tool fits the situation.

Originally Posted by annettemarie

Cloth diapering is something you can do exclusively, or with sposies at times.

Breastfeeding is something you can do exclusively, or supplementing with formula at times.

Babywearing is something you can exclusively, or with use of "containers" at times.

I agree and disagree at the same time. You can definitely do all of those things exclusively or non-exclusively, but I wouldn't say that supplementing with formula is on par with toting an infant carseat. Of course, now I'm nitpicking your example instead of giving you the benefit of the doubt...hopefully you weren't saying that exclusive babywearing is on equal footing with exclusive breastfeeding or exclusive cloth diapering, as far as parenting decisions go.

[morgainesmama]

"...hopefully you weren't saying that exclusive babywearing is on equal footing with exclusive breastfeeding or exclusive cloth diapering, as far as parenting decisions go."

I have tried very hard to stay out of this debate, but I am going to have to step in here ... I have read more than once over the years that it is postulated that it is not simply breastmilk that affects IQ but the ACT of breastfeeding, due to the amount of touch a baby receives. Babies are born with neurons that fire randomly, and it is human touch that organizes those neurons more than anything else, which is why babies who are worn seem to have higher IQs.

There is much more that needs to be studied before any conclusive evidence can be drawn from this. However, I feel equally strongly about babywearing as I feel about breastfeeding. If I did not, then I would not have gone to such huge lengths and sacrifice, sometimes ridiculously so when I'm carrying three children a half mile to the car after a late night of fireworks, for example, to raise my children as close to container-free as possible. I have occasionally used devices as necessary, but rarely. I took the carseat out of the car a few times when my first was an infant, usually for restaurants, but since then I have never taken the seat out except to transfer it to another car or wash it. I have never used a stroller. I have made these choices based on very strong feelings about those choices, and I do feel that carrying a baby is equally important to development as breastmilk.

Babies can die from lack of touch.

I do not judge mothers who make other choices about carrying than the ones I make any more than I judge mothers who feed their children formula. I know many women say that their children don't like to be carried. I also know many women who have said their baby didn't like breastfeeding. However I think of cultures such as those in Africa where babies are not given a choice ... you ride on my back, you drink my milk, or you die. It's that basic.

I also know that I have pushed my own limits, both physical and emotional, by making the parenting and lifestyle choices I have. If my children were closer together, (23 months and 30 months gaps) or I had a physical problem with carrying my children, I don't think an occasional or even frequent use of baby devices would have killed them. Many children are raised with constant use of these and you wouldn't know it, except to examine the shape of their skulls and early head control and physical development, the latter of which will vary among all babies whether carried or no anyway.

I say this not to pass judgement or to make anybody feel badly. However, there are many of us who feel equally strongly about baby carrying as we do about breastfeeding. There are those who feel that passionately about lots of things, whether white sugar or EC (neither of which are my own particular issues) or gentle discipline or whatever. And for each strong opinion, you will find evidence to support it. Many authors have made millions selling books describing evidence that children need independence and that to thrive they must be left alone. Personally I disagree with this theory, as I assume do most of us here or we wouldn't be on this board.

Women who choose not to breastfeed often feel threatened and angered when mothers discuss their choices or sacrifices in breastfeeding exclusively. So do mothers who feed formula occasionally, even though many have very legitimate reasons for doing so. I am seeing the same thing happening here. I think that it is wonderful to discuss the possibilities of exclusive babywearing, as there are mothers who would like to babywear exclusively but are not sure how that woudl fit into their lives.

On the circ board, it is not to be suggested that people circ their babies. On the breastfeeding board, it is not to be suggested that we wean our babies. And I don't see why, on the babywearing board, it is so wrong to suggest that choosing to parent without baby devices can be beneficial to our children. I don't think this thread was begun to attack anyone, but rather to allow us to pat ourselves on the back a little and to discuss the practicality of exclusively carrying a baby on our body in our daily lives.

Feel free to flame me for this post if you feel it's necessary. However, I think that assuming that I (and others) cannot feel as passionate about babywearing as I (and others) do about breastfeeding, genital mutilation, gentle discipline, cosleeping, or 1000 other choices that I (and others) make is pretty harsh. I am not judging your choice by using the term "bucket" or suggesting that babywearing is important. "Bucket" is less inflammatory than "genital mutilation" yet I feel both aptly describe the thing in their own way.

I'm beginning to ramble and repeat myself, so I'll stop now. But seriously. At least three times in the last month I have ended up carrying all three of my children. That's 100 pounds of children. I am far from super fit. I would not make that choice if I didn't feel incredibly strongly about it. And, I'm not alone in that choice, anymore than those choosing to supplement babywearing with various holding devices or to forego babywearing altogether are alone in their choices.

Peace.

Kristi

[darwinphish]

Whew! What a thread!

I'm not an exclusive babywearer, but I've thought about it a lot. I *wish* I was one but I've been physically barred from doing so thus far. It doesn't help that she's 21 lbs! :LOL I'm striving to wear her more, now that I'm in better physical shape and that I've given more consideration to the importance of that closeness. I never feel more attached, more close, more *one* with my DD than when I'm wearing her and she falls asleep on me. It is magical.

I really wish more people knew about babywearing, that more people accepted it as part of normal infant-rearing. I have never gotten more unsolicited negative comments than when wearing DD. She sleeps in her Mei Tai, and I almost always get an "isn't she uncomfortable?" or the like. I was in Borders yesterday and a woman (with her 5-month-old grandaughter - no mama in sight - fussing in the stroller) said to me "what the heck is THAT thing?". I told her it was a traditional Chinese carrier and she looked incredulous and let out an audible "hrmph"' before walking away with fussing GD in tow.

Maybe I'll start another thread on babywearing advocacy.

As a woman who couldn't successfully breastfeed (I'm an EP'er), babywearing is the most simple, natural way to bond with my DD. I also 'bottle nurse' but really, wearing DD is the most incredible bonding tool I have.

That said, I try not to judge women with their DC's in infant car seats. I used it a lot in the early days when I couldn't wear DD. Also, I'm more concerned with what a parent does when their DD cries/fusses. Nothing drives me more crazy when a baby is crying and the parent doesn't respond!

[annettemarie]

Originally Posted by funshine

I agree and disagree at the same time. You can definitely do all of those things exclusively or non-exclusively, but I wouldn't say that supplementing with formula is on par with toting an infant carseat. Of course, now I'm nitpicking your example instead of giving you the benefit of the doubt...hopefully you weren't saying that exclusive babywearing is on equal footing with exclusive breastfeeding or exclusive cloth diapering, as far as parenting decisions go.

If you knew me at all, you would know that I am a huge breastfeeding advocate. I was only answering the charge that other forums promote only an all-or-nothing point of view. BUT if I were helping a mama who breastfed and had to supplement with formula some of the time, I would be praising her to the heavens for the breastmilk her baby did get. Likewise, if I met a mama who babycarried even part of the time, I would be supporting her decision.

On the other hand, I am not going to create a heirarchical list of what mamas have to do in order to be considered an attachment parent. AP is about attachment to your baby- the actions are tools that get you there, but the goal isn't to babywear for the sake of babywearing, but for the sake of attachment. To me, anyway, everything else is peripheral. Of course, breastfeeding is a public health issue as well, which puts it in a different place than some of the other attachment parenting "tools".

[annettemarie]

Originally Posted by morgainesmama

On the circ board, it is not to be suggested that people circ their babies. On the breastfeeding board, it is not to be suggested that we wean our babies. And I don't see why, on the babywearing board, it is so wrong to suggest that choosing to parent without baby devices can be beneficial to our children. I don't think this thread was begun to attack anyone, but rather to allow us to pat ourselves on the back a little and to discuss the practicality of exclusively carrying a baby on our body in our daily lives.

Actually, Kristi, people ask for suggestions on weaning their children from the breast or from the family bed all the time. The only "verboten" topics here on mothering are spanking and circumcision. I do realize now that this was meant to be a self-congratulatory thread, and I apologize for raining on anyone's parade. I think it was sufficiently and more eloquently explained why the title got some people's goats. If I started a thread in breastfeeding called "Roll Call for Mama's Whose Babies NEVER had a drop of formula" it would probably grate on people's nerves as well.

[Carolinamidwife]

And when people do ask about weaning and getting kids out of their beds how is that idea usually met? With disapproval and alternative suggestions, IME.

ITA with Kristi, very eloquent post.

[Carolinamidwife]

I think it's more the way the thread turned, tone-wise, that has been upsetting and I take responsibility for that. I apologize (as I did before as well) for introducing a judgemental tone to the thread.

I don't feel there is anything wrong with being proud of container-free parenting and I think the Babywearing forum is a fine place to toot your own horn.

[annettemarie]

I personally try to meet a mama where she's at. I can't really speak for everyone else.

[Tupelo Honey]

I just want to reiterate that I have no problem with people feeling passionate about babywearing, or arguing that it is on par with breastfeeding or whatever other parenting choice you want to compare it to. My only point was that I think derogatory language isn't necessary or helpful to advocacy. Personally, I don't really get into self-congratulatory type rhetoric, but that's not to say it's wrong.

[morgainesmama]

"BUT if I were helping a mama who breastfed and had to supplement with formula some of the time, I would be praising her to the heavens for the breastmilk her baby did get."

ITA ... I tried to convey that by the tone of my post; I hope I was successful. Even a three hours of carrying in a sling each day reduces crying by 43% - 54% depending on the study you read; any touch and carrying is better than less touch and carrying. Likewise w/breastmilk or many other things. I think I misunderstood your post, then -- it read as though babywearing were far less important than breastfeeding or cloth diapering. Personally, I CD most of the time but use disposables when I'm feeling lazy or overwhelmed; it's not on my list of top priorities. Your post sounded as though it were insane to even begin to compare babywearing with the importance of exclusive bfing or cding.

I don't think "Self-congratulatory" is precisely right here. Babywearing exclusively is a huge lifestyle choice, and involves lots of nuances ... what about preparing dinner/gardening/crafts with the kids/taking a shower/using the toilet/shaving your legs/getting some quiet time/etc. A thread like this (if it hadn't become so hugely volatile) would have been the place to discuss many of those day-to-day issues and challenges and also would encourage those mamas who are on the fence about exclusive babywearing, who would peek in here out of curiosity.

Personally, reviewing the OP, I don't find anything inflammatory there. The "bucket" rhetoric is standard on every natural parenting board I have ever been a part of. It comes up naturally at every babywearing meeting, and I have even heard the term come from my mainstream acquaintances. That is all I can find that is inflammatory ... but then, as an exclusive babywearer, it isn't the kind of thread that would offend me. This thread strikes me as no different than many in the CLW forum ... which incidentally I don't bristle at, even though I weaned my first at 3.5 years and am planning to wean my second at about the same age this fall/winter. I would hate to see that we have to have a totally separate forum for "container free parenting" or "exclusive babywearing" or "mothering without baby gadgets" or whatever in the same way there's a CLW forum. I was pretty startled when I saw the tone of this thread move downward as it did.

Anyway my kids are still restless so I need to go settle them again.

Sorry annettemarie if I misunderstood what you meant; I did not see another way to interpret it.

Kristi

[Patrice#1]

Yes, I exclusively babywear...well, almost exclusively! When I go to the gym to work out, I have to put him in a stroller for the babysitter there (he is 8 months) so that he will not crawl around on the ground. Other than that, yes, he is worn!

[boatbaby]

Originally Posted by morgainesmama

"BUT if I were helping a mama who breastfed and had to supplement with formula some of the time, I would be praising her to the heavens for the breastmilk her baby did get."

ITA ... I tried to convey that by the tone of my post; I hope I was successful. Even a three hours of carrying in a sling each day reduces crying by 43% - 54% depending on the study you read; any touch and carrying is better than less touch and carrying. Likewise w/breastmilk or many other things. I think I misunderstood your post, then -- it read as though babywearing were far less important than breastfeeding or cloth diapering. Personally, I CD most of the time but use disposables when I'm feeling lazy or overwhelmed; it's not on my list of top priorities. Your post sounded as though it were insane to even begin to compare babywearing with the importance of exclusive bfing or cding.

I don't think "Self-congratulatory" is precisely right here. Babywearing exclusively is a huge lifestyle choice, and involves lots of nuances ... what about preparing dinner/gardening/crafts with the kids/taking a shower/using the toilet/shaving your legs/getting some quiet time/etc. A thread like this (if it hadn't become so hugely volatile) would have been the place to discuss many of those day-to-day issues and challenges and also would encourage those mamas who are on the fence about exclusive babywearing, who would peek in here out of curiosity.

Personally, reviewing the OP, I don't find anything inflammatory there. The "bucket" rhetoric is standard on every natural parenting board I have ever been a part of. It comes up naturally at every babywearing meeting, and I have even heard the term come from my mainstream acquaintances. That is all I can find that is inflammatory ... but then, as an exclusive babywearer, it isn't the kind of thread that would offend me. This thread strikes me as no different than many in the CLW forum ... which incidentally I don't bristle at, even though I weaned my first at 3.5 years and am planning to wean my second at about the same age this fall/winter. I would hate to see that we have to have a totally separate forum for "container free parenting" or "exclusive babywearing" or "mothering without baby gadgets" or whatever in the same way there's a CLW forum. I was pretty startled when I saw the tone of this thread move downward as it did.

Anyway my kids are still restless so I need to go settle them again.

Sorry annettemarie if I misunderstood what you meant; I did not see another way to interpret it.

Kristi

: : : :

[mollyeilis]

Well, it was my intention to never use the bucket (that's simply what I call it, that or "the Graco"), but early on we did a little bit.

Hubby and I each, once, carried DS in the bucket/Graco, just to see why people did it. Neither of us could figure out why. Hubby is incredibly strong, and I am usually quite strong (though post-partum with all my joints very loose, not so much), but it was just HEAVY and so awkward! The handle might be ergonomically designed for your *wrist*, but as a chiropractor (non-practicing nowadays) I have to say there's nothing ergonomic about it for elbows, shoulders, neck, spine, hips, and so on!

After that one each experiment, we haven't carried him in the Graco.

But we did bring it in with us a couple of times, for restaurants and such, when he was still short enough to be in it (he outgrew it by height at 4 months). He seemed so lonely, bored, and passive, though, sitting in there, plus he hated being leaned back that far, so he usually ended up on our laps ASAP.

So that is what technically keeps me from being an exclusive babywearer. Since he was about 4 months old, however, we are. However, I usually carry him with my arms, rather than fabric. I haven't found a piece of fabric yet that's as comfy and easy as my arms, though it's nice to have the option! At festivals we definitely use a Moby(style) wrap, and I just ordered our first mei tai!

My MIL is Korean and gave me one of her podegis, and that's OK but it's quilted material and is far too hot for us.

I like having options; hubby is still trying to figure out my rationale for everything! Arms, shopping cart seat (not the infant seat they have welded on, but the sitting up thing), or hotsling for shopping, Moby for longer walks and trips, who knows what we'll use the mei tai for, and so on.


One of the main reasons I never wanted to use a stroller was b/c I have been run into a million times by strollers. My achilles tendons will never be the same! And I never wanted to be someone who would run into someone with a stroller, so I never got one. Plus, we live on the third floor and drive a Golf! Where on earth would we keep it?


When I'm out and about, I generally don't really look at people. If they are glaring I don't want to see it, and if they are really interested, they will make me aware of them. Just the other day on a big trip to the mall and the mall-attached-Target, back and forth one end to the other twice, several people reacted happily and interestedly to my Hotsling. If anyone reacted negatively, they weren't obvious enough about it for me to notice.

Oh, and the one thing I never ever do while babywearing (or even babyholding) is grimace or make it look like it's at all difficult! Since I hurt my back over a week ago and haven't gotten into see my friend-the-chiro, that's a bit difficult, but I just do NOT want anyone to see me slinging and looking like I'm in pain, and think "ooh that must hurt". So I am slapping a smile on my face and talking to my son, all the while wishing I could drown myself in percocet for the pain LOL. j/k

[Tupelo Honey]

Kristi, I guess I'm to blame for things getting volatile It wasn't the OP, or even most of the stuff that was said. It was the specific things I quoted. Personally, any time I see the word "hate" used, it tends to set off flags for me. It's just a really strong word, and one that IMO is overused. So there were a few posts that went beyond just using the term "bucket," which doesn't offend me.

I'm not trying to rehash, as I really would like this thread to fade way. I just wanted to clarify because I think it's being made to seem as if objecting to any part of this thread is just petty and silly, and I don't think that's true. I still feel that certain things needed to be addressed, which is what I did.

[mollyeilis]

Ooh, I hope you don't really mean you want the thread to fade away. However, that's what you said so I assume that's what you meant. I hope it doesn't fade away, but I do hope it can just be a bunch of people who did (or like me technically didn't) exclusively babywear, talking about how great babywearing is and how they didn't find it necessary to use other devices, because there really is NO other place to have such discussions!

[Tupelo Honey]

Originally Posted by mollyeilis

Ooh, I hope you don't really mean you want the thread to fade away. However, that's what you said so I assume that's what you meant. I hope it doesn't fade away, but I do hope it can just be a bunch of people who did (or like me technically didn't) exclusively babywear, talking about how great babywearing is and how they didn't find it necessary to use other devices, because there really is NO other place to have such discussions!

Well, if that were what this thread had been, it would be fine. But yes, as it is I think it has not been a great thread, and I'll be glad to see it go to the next page.

[morgainesmama]

Originally Posted by Tupelo Honey

Well, if that were what this thread had been, it would be fine. But yes, as it is I think it has not been a great thread, and I'll be glad to see it go to the next page.

Hm, I'm with you. I'm not a mod but can we let this die quietly and have a more constructive conversation here? http://www.mothering.com/discussions...50#post3586950

Kristi

[annettemarie]

Originally Posted by morgainesmama

ITA ... I tried to convey that by the tone of my post; I hope I was successful. Even a three hours of carrying in a sling each day reduces crying by 43% - 54% depending on the study you read; any touch and carrying is better than less touch and carrying. Likewise w/breastmilk or many other things.

Awesome- then we are on the same page. If I saw a mama in this town babywearing, I would be so excited I would probably trip over my own feet rushing over to congratulate her@

I think I misunderstood your post, then -- it read as though babywearing were far less important than breastfeeding or cloth diapering. Personally, I CD most of the time but use disposables when I'm feeling lazy or overwhelmed; it's not on my list of top priorities. Your post sounded as though it were insane to even begin to compare babywearing with the importance of exclusive bfing or cding.

Yeah, honestly, that is not what I intended to convey. Although I do think breastfeeding is in a catagory all by itself because of it's health benefits for both mother and child, as well as being a public health issue. I mean, even if a mom was decidedly un-AP and un-NFL is other areas of her life, breastfeeding is something she should do for its own sake. Does that make sense?

Personally, reviewing the OP, I don't find anything inflammatory there. The "bucket" rhetoric is standard on every natural parenting board I have ever been a part of. It comes up naturally at every babywearing meeting, and I have even heard the term come from my mainstream acquaintances. That is all I can find that is inflammatory ... but then, as an exclusive babywearer, it isn't the kind of thread that would offend me.

Well, as I said before, I probably misread the OP, but it just struck me oddly in conjunction with other posts at the same time. And don't forget those darn hormones. I blame the hormones. But the judgementalness (is that a word) did come in pretty strongly later in the thread.

This thread strikes me as no different than many in the CLW forum ... which incidentally I don't bristle at, even though I weaned my first at 3.5 years and am planning to wean my second at about the same age this fall/winter.

Well, that's a whole other thread :LOL

Sorry annettemarie if I misunderstood what you meant; I did not see another way to interpret it.

No, my point was just that they are all tools to get us to the end goal of being attached, rather than being goals in and of themselves, at least in my interpretation of attachment parenting.

It's cool. I know I overreacted on this thread, and I think I apologized. If not, I apologize now.