Charting, Trying, Hoping TO AVOID: August 2005 - Page 2

[CrunchyMamaToBe]

Post-O rules... you are safe on the evening of the 4th dry day when it corresponds with a certain number of high temps as well, right?

The FAM (TCOYF) rule is that you are safe the evening of the fourth day of dry-up + the third day of temperatures that are 0.2 above your previous six.

There are other rules set out in The Art of NFP, which basically say you need fewer days of dry up the stronger your thermal shift. The one that we use is three days of dry-up + three days of temps that are 0.4 above the previous six.

I would really recommend to anyone borrowing a copy of The Art of NFP from the library or even your local catholic church if you've never read it. It's a great resource and covers nearly every imaginable charting situation. Plus it has charts on which to practice your interpreting skills and charts where NFP failed and/or wasn't used correctly, so you know what to look out for.

[momtokay]

I looked for the Art of NFP in our library system. There's only one copy and it's three months overdue, plus there's already a hold on it should it ever get returned. Maybe I'll have to check out the local Catholic church. Thanks for the recomendation!

[Undercover Hippie]

Thanks for the reminder, CrunchyMamaToBe! You are much more up on your rules than I am, it is great to have you on this thread!

I am at a point right now where I have a established my basic infertile pattern (BIP) of sticky mucus and as long as it continues we assume we are safe. Whenever I notice a shift to a more fertile creamy type of mucus we avoid/use condoms until I've returned to my BIP for 4 days. Anyone see any flaws in that logic?

Sometimes after we've DTD I worry a bit for the next week, watching for signs of more fertile mucus and hoping I don't O within the week. Logically I know that if we DTD on a dry/sticky day it is highly unlikely that the sperm could live even a day but I am a bit paranoid for a week anyway. I usually make sure DD nurses a lot at night for the next few days to keep O away! :LOL I don't feel like we are being risky, we are following the rules, but there's always that little nagging voice you know? At this point it is more likely I will O before AF (ie. no warning AF) but I also feel like it will take a long stretch of fertile mucus before my body is finally able to cross that hormone threshold and O, so it will be noticeable. Any thoughts on all of this? Are we playing it safe enough? I'd welcome any input.

[eilonwy]

I had to use temperature and cervical position & mucous pretty much without the other little formulae. It actually worked very well, except for last month when my chart was all wacky and I subverted it. Anyway, we would consider day one safe, and then every day until the first change in mucous (usually from dry/sticky to creamy). The first creamy day was the last day we were "safe" and after that I'd use temperatures & position exclusively (because I often had fertile-looking mucous long after I ovulated). I invariably had a temperature dip when I ovulated (I know that not everyone does) followed by a sustained rise in temperature. We waited two or three days after the dip and after that we figured we were infertile again. And up until last month, it worked well. Last month my chart was whacky, but I had a dip and then two higher temperatures and thought that we were fine. On the third day, I had that super low dip and that's when I realized that we were pregnant. In other words, I didn't pay attention to my own rules as well as I should have, probably because I've got serious baby lust.

The rules you listed make perfect sense, if you don't have short cycles. This year my cycles have been longer (26-32 days) but earlier (when we were TTC BooBah) my cycles were very short, 18-22 days. In fact, when we started TTC BooBah, we missed several fertile cycles because I was counting days instead of taking temperatures or checking mucous. I was ovulating as early as day 5, usually between 5 and 10. I didn't think that my cycles were that abnormal, though, I thought that other people had really short cycles sometimes...

[majazama]

rynna. Funny seeing you here. I've been bumping into you everywhere, and no, I'm not stalking you :LOL


I really need to be "on it" about my chart. I want to know all there is to know about this stuff. I just read through the thread and got a little summary of the "rules" of NFP. I really need a refresher.

I have some questions........ What time is best to take your temp in the morning? Do you just take it once per day? what does the temp mean, in relation to the temp on other days?
what do you do for "lube", if any, on the dry days of DTD?

[majazama]

This morning I took my temp 3x, and it was different everytime I took it... 97.4, 97.3, 97.5... So what does that mean? should I just do an average of the three? I took my temp right after I got up, before breakfast. I am on my 4rd day of my period (so 4th day of my cycle, I guess).

I would like to get an online chart for *free*. Where would I find one that is really easy to use, simple and straightforward?

I think I understand now why I got pregnant last time:LOL I didn't think that you could O in the third week of the cycle, and I think that's what my body does sometimes, hence my DD#2.

[momtokay]

Originally Posted by majazama

This morning I took my temp 3x, and it was different everytime I took it... 97.4, 97.3, 97.5... So what does that mean? should I just do an average of the three? I took my temp right after I got up, before breakfast. I am on my 4rd day of my period (so 4th day of my cycle, I guess).

I've only charted temps one cycle since my second, so I may be rusty, but I did it for a long time before my first. At any rate, if I remember correctly, you should take your temperature when you first wake up in the morning before any activity at all. Keep your thermometer right by your bed and don't even get up to go to the bathroom. Ideally you should take your temp at the same time each morning, but my understanding is that it being first thing in the AM before any activity is more important than the same time?!?

You can definitely O later than day 14. I am day 16 and just gearing up to O now, and my cycles are pretty regular. A lot of women O quite late in their cycles. So definitely watch your symptoms and temps instead of the calendar unless you want a third.

A lot of people use http://fertilityfriend.com/ for charting. I believe http://tcoyf.com/ charges for it's charts, but I'm not sure. Since I don't chart temps I just use paper charts. :

Good luck TTA!!

[eilonwy]

Jaz-- you are stalking me! :LOL

I took my temperature first thing in the morning. It was very difficult at first, until someone here mentioned that they have their husband hand them the thermometer when he gets ready for work. Brilliant! I put the thermometer on top of Mike's alarm clock, and when he gets up to hit the snooze button, he brings it to me. Of course, we're not really charting much these days, as I sabotaged my chart and got pregnant... :LOL

You can ovulate at just about any point in your cycle!! I've heard of people getting pregnant while they have their periods, even, and my mother got pregnant with my little brother before her postpartum bleeding with me had finished.

Fertility friend is free and easy to use, although they do point out that it is a violation of their user agreement to use their software to CTA. It works, though-- I knew the day after Mike and I dtd that it was very likely that we'd concieved.

[majazama]

What's CTA?

[momtokay]

Originally Posted by majazama

What's CTA?

Charting to Avoid PG.

[earthmama369]

Originally Posted by majazama

This morning I took my temp 3x, and it was different everytime I took it... 97.4, 97.3, 97.5... So what does that mean? should I just do an average of the three? I took my temp right after I got up, before breakfast. I am on my 4rd day of my period (so 4th day of my cycle, I guess).

I'm a real newbie to this, but what I've read is that you should take your temp once a day, right when you first wake up. Ideally, in that gray time before you're actually really awake, and after 3-5 hours of solid sleep. That's HARD. Our "first" wake-up time is around 4 a.m. when my daughter wants to nurse. Since she tends to nurse on and off from 4 a.m. until my husband leaves for work at 7:30-8 a.m., 4:00 is about when I should be taking my temp. (Our "last" wake up time is sometimes around 2 a.m., though, so we're not getting rid of back-up contraception yet because I'm definitely not getting enough sleep for this to be really accurate!!) I've also read that it should be as close to the same time every day as possible, and no more than a half hour in either direction from your original starting time.

I've been trying to get into the habit of keeping the thermometer right by the bed, out of the case, so I can just grab it, stick it under my tongue, and doze while Qualia nurses. The basel thermometer I got (Walgreen's brand) is nice because it stores the last 3 temps. so you don't have to look at it right away. It also turns off automatically after 10 minutes, and beeps *really* quietly (which is more of a bonus for my husband than me).

I've also been looking for free online charts -- thanks for the suggestions!

[majazama]

I checked out the fertility friend, and it kind of bugs me that there will be a "green light" when I'm ovulating, as that's not a green light for me:LOL Doesn't it bother you guys that the site is geared towards conception? Is there any other sites that do this sort of thing but aren't geared towards conception? (I'm kind of paranoid about it in a way, too, IYKWIM?)

Maybe I just need a good physical calendar I can write things down in... hmmm. I don't want to write in the kitchen calendar as everyone sees it. I should get another calendar, or is there a site where I could print one off. must be....

[Undercover Hippie]

I do use Fertility Friend, only so I can have a chart to share with you ladies if necessary. Right now my chart is so boring that it is about a month out of date though. :LOL But I don't rely on FF's interpretations since it is geared towards TTC. My "real" chart is a paper chart, I downloaded it for free from the TCOYF websiteand print out copies as needed. I keep it in my nightstand drawer with my thermometer and pencil, and I set them all out at bedtime so I can jot down my CM/CP from that day and be ready to note my temp in the morning.

Also, about the temping question... you do need to temp before you get out of bed in the morning, and as close to the same time as possible. My DH gives me the thermometer when he comes in to kiss me goodbye before he goes to work. I find that, as long as I haven't been out of bed for a few hours, my temps are consistent no matter how much I've been nursing or how restless my little co-sleeper has been. I cannot swear that they are good enough to tell O by since I'm not there yet, but they stay within a .5 degree range. Often I get the exact same temp many days in a row--96.8 seems to be my magic number LOL.

HTH!

[majazama]

Thanks for the linky, adenlilysmoma!

[CrunchyMamaToBe]

Originally Posted by eilonwy

In other words, I didn't pay attention to my own rules as well as I should have, probably because I've got serious baby lust.

I'm glad you're baby lust is going to be satisfied!!!

Originally Posted by adenlilysmama

I am at a point right now where I have a established my basic infertile pattern (BIP) of sticky mucus and as long as it continues we assume we are safe. Whenever I notice a shift to a more fertile creamy type of mucus we avoid/use condoms until I've returned to my BIP for 4 days. Anyone see any flaws in that logic?

This is the suggestion set out in TCOYF for avoiding during annovulatory periods (by periods, I mean periods of time, not AF!). But she also says you shouldn't rely on breastfeeding+not having had a period (AF this time!) if your baby is older than six months...
Although I did just read that *on average* a woman who nurses 80 minutes of every 24 hours, with half of those minutes of nursing being at night, will not be fertile again for 18 months after birth.

[KateMary]

Wow NFP sounds so confusing. I just bought a copy of the No Pill No Risk Birth Control Solution. Has anyone read that? It was published in 1986 so I am afraid it will be outdated? I looked at TCOYF but it was huge and expensive (and its all checked out at the library).

I also don't sleep for 3-5 solid hours. Ever. So don't know if that temp thing will work. I need to do some more reading but I am feeling like this is not going to work for me.

I just got first pp af and went off the mini pill to see if my skin will clear up. I have had acne since Ruby's birth and now need to figure out if the mini pill is causing it. It just got horrible in the past week but maybe that was cause of AF coming. So I might go back to the mini pill if I can determine its not causing the acne. I want to start charting just to practice but have very little time to do my reading. Sorry to complain so much but this is just overwhelming.

[Alison]

Originally Posted by KateMary

I also don't sleep for 3-5 solid hours. Ever. So don't know if that temp thing will work. I need to do some more reading but I am feeling like this is not going to work for me.

Temp has always worked for me, and I'm in the same sleep boat. I take my temp at first night waking, could be anywhere from 2 am to 6 am. I still see a very clear rise at O. Maybe not as clear as it would be if I slept all night every night, but I can still see it nice and clear on my chart.

Alison

[Harmony96]

Hi all.

Nothing new to report here. This is just my first "real" week off the pill since last week would have been my inactives anyway. And strangley enough, I am less nervous this week than I was last week. I'm still just temping every day and my chart is pretty unexciting right now since I don't have any CM or anything to report yet.

But I just wanted to pop in and say hi.

[Millie Ivy]

Recommendation to those who can't afford to buy the quite pricey TCOYF:::
Share! I went and bought it with my sister and best friend and over the past 4 years have just passed it back and forth between us. I probably have read it a total of three times (it's an easy read with lots of pictures and sample charts, it's not all text) and it only cost me like 8 or 9 dollars. Well worth it.
Or check out Amazon or ebay for used copies. Doesn't matter if a book is dogeared or anything if you can get it half price!
HTH!

[majazama]

Originally Posted by CrunchyMamaToBe

Although I did just read that *on average* a woman who nurses 80 minutes of every 24 hours, with half of those minutes of nursing being at night, will not be fertile again for 18 months after birth.

: Well, I don't believe that, sorry. My DD2 was conceived when DD1 was 9 months old, nursing like a barraccuda. I got my PP period at about 5 months PP, BTW.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This morning I forgot to take my temp I hope it doesn't affect my chart in any way. I've been really good about the last week or so of temping. I just started charting and haven't gotten to my first O yet. It sure is interesting. I'm looking forward to seeing if there is a pattern with my cycle.