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Kids playing with and wasting food + Meal and snack scheduling discussion - Page 10

post #181 of 432
Quote:
Originally Posted by MamaBug
Annettemarie, the list of snacks you posted was thoughtful but not necessary. No one here asked for a list of appropriate food nor did they need it. We never said we don't know what kind of snacks to serve just that we like to know when the kids are eating them.
Wow. Didn't know there was a list of criteria to post on the thread. The list was in response to the assertion that it was either pudding cups or granola that took hours to bake. I am unsure as to whether or not your post is as a moderator or just as regular person. I don't want to break a rule by arguing with a mod, but your post was hurtful and unwelcoming.
post #182 of 432
Mamabug I feel like your last post was a blanket dismissal of all we discussed here.

I am not sure what you are advocating.

"Mommy makes the rules?" I'm sorry but that really isn't a very gd statement, especially concerning food. I don't think you meant it to sound as negative as it came across, but it seems to go back to the very beginning of this thread, and the essence of this discussion.

Can your child eat when they say they are hungry, whether or not it's the time you might prefer they eat?

Can your child say to you "I want to fix my own snacks" and count on your help and support?

These are the questions at the heart of this issue.

Saying "my children never go hungry" or "my children are never forced to eat" completely misses the point of food in the context of attachment parenting. I think we are all here with the understanding that nobody is starving their child or shoveling food into their mouth while they kick and scream. Falling back on that "defense" derails the discussion. Of course you are not doing that.

"Not spanking" isn't the definition of GD. It is much more than that. So is this issue more than a question of "not letting kids go hungry".
post #183 of 432
I am usually a regular person when I post unless I have to post on threads where there is an issue.

I am sorry if you were offended but I was feeling as if you felt the need to enlighten us on the right kinds of food that we could serve, like we didn't know. If I offended you I am sorry, I took your post the wrong way. Tone is so hard to read online.
post #184 of 432
Nope, as I said, I was trying to include it without singling a mama out, because she seemed to be saying it was either unhealthy quick food or super slow healthy food.
post #185 of 432
oops double post computer acting up
post #186 of 432
Quote:
Originally Posted by heartmama
Mamabug I feel like your last post was a blanket dismissal of all we discussed here.

I am not sure what you are advocating.

"Mommy makes the rules?" I'm sorry but that really isn't a very gd statement, especially concerning food. I don't think you meant it to sound as negative as it came across, but it seems to go back to the very beginning of this thread, and the essence of this discussion.

Can your child eat when they say they are hungry, whether or not it's the time you might prefer they eat?

Can your child say to you "I want to fix my own snacks" and count on your help and support?

These are the questions at the heart of this issue.
heartmama I am sorry you took my post that way, I was a bit miffed when I posted and I guess it came across wrong. See I guess my definition of GD might be different then others. The fact is as the grown up I do make the rules for the most part. 99% of the time those rules are made with every intention of making my child happy but sometimes we as parents have to do things that our children might not like, for instance changing diapers or holding my hand in a busy parking lot. These are rules that I made that really are not negotiable, kwim? That is what I meant about mommy making the rules, does that make more sense?

Everyone makes different rules for their family and just because I might say ask my ds to wait 5 more minutes instead of having veggies out, which btw my kids hate!, that does not mean I am not using GD, at least not imo. I was just getting the vibe that since I sometimes ask my child to wait 5 mintues to eat, or I don't let him eat yet another piece of cheese that day ( constipation issues) that I am less then gentle with him.

I hope that clears things up.
post #187 of 432
Quote:
Originally Posted by heartmama
Mamabug I feel like your last post was a blanket dismissal of all we discussed here.

I am not sure what you are advocating.

"Mommy makes the rules?" I'm sorry but that really isn't a very gd statement, especially concerning food. I don't think you meant it to sound as negative as it came across, but it seems to go back to the very beginning of this thread, and the essence of this discussion.
Ok but why? Why especially food? I really think this goes back to some of us are just wondering "what's the big deal?" When it comes to food. I really dont understand why it is OK to keep my children from dumping out the shampoo and conditioner but somehow if it is a food product it is sacred.
It really has not been made any clearer than mud as to why it really matters that children have free access to food when they wouldnt be allowed free access to my credit cards or any number of other things.


And there is NOT only one definition of GD. Mommy does make the rules in some GD homes. It may not be your definition of GD. We are not all painted with the same brush. I am GD and AP and I Do make the rules.
You might not agree and that is OK. But it is uncalled for to say it is "un AP" or "Not GD". There are just as many books on GD which back up the way I do things as that which go further.

Quote:
Originally Posted by heartmama
Saying "my children never go hungry" or "my children are never forced to eat" completely misses the point of food in the context of attachment parenting. I think we are all here with the understanding that nobody is starving their child or shoveling food into their mouth while they kick and scream. Falling back on that "defense" derails the discussion. Of course you are not doing that.

"Not spanking" isn't the definition of GD. It is much more than that. So is this issue more than a question of "not letting kids go hungry".
Again, we all practice our own forms of AP and GD. And I think it is fair to assume that the "point of food" in the context of AP is going to be as different for each family as where each child sleeps, or what carrier they prefer (if any).
Joline
post #188 of 432
Thank you for understanding me Joline
post #189 of 432
Quote:
I was just getting the vibe that since I sometimes ask my child to wait 5 mintues to eat that I am less then gentle with him.
I don't agree that gd means gently enforcing all the arbitrary rules we might invent. I think it is about much more than how we deliver the message, kwim?

Are you willing to talk about this in more detail? I'd really like to discuss what you mean by "waiting 5 minutes". I think you have come close to the essence of this discussion.

I don't know whether you asking a child to wait is gentle/respectful, until I know whether your child views that as a request, or an order. If your child knows it is their right to eat when they are hungry, and has always known this, and knows that you will not stop them from getting something to eat, then saying "Please wait a few minutes, I'm almost ready" is just a request, and there is nothing ungentle about it. It's like the waiter saying "Just one more minute, I have to get this table's order first". It's just a polite request, nothing more.

On the other hand if your child knows that by saying "Please wait 5 minutes", that at that point, reaching for food will mean having it taken away, or viewed as a "discipline" issue, then that is totally different. That is not a gentle or respectful thought for the child to face. Choosing between hunger and consequences? That is not gentle, and it isn't respectful.
post #190 of 432
Quote:
Originally Posted by MamaBug
Thank you for understanding me Joline

Hey here's a paddle! You can jump in my GD boat! :LOL
post #191 of 432
I think Mamabug and myself are perfectly capable of judging how gentle we are with our own children for ourselves. And certainly more knowledgable about how they feel about what we say to them than anybody else could imagine themselves to be.
post #192 of 432
Johub~

Children do not have a biological need to charge credit cards. They do have a biological need to eat.

I am going to ask whether or not this is ap. I have no problem asking those questions. Disagree with me. Challenge me. I want to discuss this

Why would you demand feed an infant, and then make your older child ask permission to eat, and call both attachment parenting?
post #193 of 432
Yes I would be more then happy to discuss this.

When I ask my ds to wait, he usually waits. If he says, but mom I am really hungry now.....I say ok fine, take x, y, or z, things I know will not fill him up and not allow him to eat at least some of his dinner. He does not reach for food if I say, dinner is in five minutes you need to be patient. This gives him time to finish up what he was doing and wash his hands. If dinner is truly not going to be ready in time to satiate his appetite then by all means he can have a small snack to tide him over. In our house we never have consequences for food
post #194 of 432
Why would you demand feed an infant, and then make your older child ask permission to eat, or deny them food when they are hungry, and call that gentle parenting?

Why would you assume that if you demand feed an infant that he is not "asking" to eat in the only language he has?
A child with more language asks in a different way.
I can see no difference.

My newborn cannot crawl into my arms and undo my bra. I help him.
My 2 year old cannot make scrambled eggs. I help him.
So why is one the natural state of affairs but the other not AP.

And as we already discussed, nobody is denying anybody food when they are hungry so that is a moot point.
post #195 of 432
Quote:
Originally Posted by johub
I think Mamabug and myself are perfectly capable of judging how gentle we are with our own children for ourselves. And certainly more knowledgable about how they feel about what we say to them than anybody else could imagine themselves to be.
:


My paddle is packed. Which river are we going in!


Honestly I feel like we go around and around on this and this is how I am feeling I am totally comfortable with the decisions I make and honestly while I don't mind discussing them I will never see that it is wrong for my child to at least tell me they are going to get a snack. I like to know how much of what they consume in a day. My kids do help in the kitchen, they do have access to snacks, they do know how to make things for themselves and they don't make messes. I just want to know how much and what they eat throughout the day if for nothing else that I know what kinds of meals to prepare and how much I think they might eat after grazing all day.
post #196 of 432
Quote:
Originally Posted by LauraSusan
I had a friend who strictly controlled her children's food intake, with specific snack and meal times, and I found it very upsetting. It just seems so wrong to me to force kids to ask for food. And when her children came to my house, they would gobble down every single thing in Laura's tray because they had no idea how to control themselves in the face of unlimited food. Very sad, I think.
See that is what I am talking about. My parents did EVERTHING right re food (they simply were not controlling parents - young hippies), but I certainly would have gobbled down every single thing in Laura's snack tray. That Laura doesn't is due to her nartual tendencies, tendencies you haven't messed up by arbritarily restricting food. That she doesn't isn't due to the way you have approached food with her (except that your approach hasn't messed up her natural tendencies) My natural tendencies would have told me to eat it all.

We are not as powerful, as parents, as we think we are, which is why the means and not the ends is the important part of parenting.
post #197 of 432
Quote:
Originally Posted by MamaBug
Annettemarie, the list of snacks you posted was thoughtful but not necessary. No one here asked for a list of appropriate food nor did they need it. We never said we don't know what kind of snacks to serve just that we like to know when the kids are eating them.

I thought it was necessary b/c the point came up that if a toddler can easily get to a food, it must be unhealthy. (pudding, granola bars, and fruit snacks).

which couldn't be further from the truth.
post #198 of 432
I guess I took it that johub was taking in general terms, not necessarily her own. But honestly if my child eats too many grapes or cheese we have issues, so if they are eating these things all day long and I am unaware of exactly how many they eat, it could be something that actually makes my child sick, kwim?
post #199 of 432
Johub you keep going back and forth, back and forth *LOL*

If you always help your children eat when they are hungry, that is great! Why are you so defensive here?

Let me ask you something. When someone posts here (and they did) that their child can only eat at breakfast, lunch, and dinner, are you asking me to believe that this child is never, ever hungry outside of those times? Because I don't believe it. If it's true, then let them know they can eat when they want, and continue to serve regular meals. Aha. But then we get close to the issue. The parent *does not want* to let them think they can eat whenever they want. The parent *wants* to control this issue. The parent does not want to believe their child is hungry at any other time, because that is an unpleasant thought, and extinguishes the cues the child may have at other times through years of ignoring or denying or delaying those requests.

Second example. The child wants to make their own food. The parent refuses. The parent locks the cabinets, locks the kitchen door, and forces the child to ask them if they want food. The child does *not* want to ask for food. If they did, they would have in the first place.

Do you think these are respectful, attachment based parenting decisions? I don't.
post #200 of 432
I guess I was under the impression that the OPs children were not actually eating the food but PLAYING with it. That is a huge difference imo.

I agree with you not allow your child to eat when hungry is not AP, but I did not get that from what the OP said? What did I overlook? Going to re-read since this thread has taken a different course...........
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