Anyone NOT gettting a Social Security Number for their children? - Page 6

[Dragonfly]

Originally Posted by wannabe

As yooper says, it's compulsory to pay ss tax, citizen, holder of a ss number or not, if you work in the US for a certain period of time, you pay ss tax.

I understand that. That's why it seems to me that if you're mandatorily paying into a system, you may as well set yourself up so you can benefit from it (provided it's still around).

Here's a question: If your child does not have a SSN and turns out to have a serious health issue that would entitle him/her to disability under SS, could s/he be denied a SSN after the fact?

[rubber_duckie]

I'm late to this, but I didn't have a SSN until I was 6 or 7. My parents wanted to apply for mine at the same time they applied for my younger brother's, in the hope that our numbers would be only one digit different. I believe that was before the days of the child tax credit, or at least before a SSN was needed for the child. As it turned out, our numbers are about 12 numbers apart, so my parents had to memorize two different numbers anyways!

Interestingly, we lived in a different state than the one in which I was born, so my SSN has always been different than my peers' numbers. It actually raised questions when I got a passport since my SSN indicated that it was issued in one state in 1987 when my birth cert indicated that I was born in another state in 1981.

I would not have been able to go to college, much less rent an apartment or get a driver's license, without having an SSN or a tax ID number. As a child, I didn't need an SSN, though. I think it would be reasonable to wait (so long as you're willing to forego tax benefits) as long as you're OK with your child getting an SSN when they're older and need one to get a part time job or a driver's license.

[Jennisee]

I'd never even considered not getting DD a SS#, so she has one, but now my curiousity is piqued for future children. I certaintly have off-the-grid Libertarian leanings, although that is nowhere near my current reality.

As for the SS# being required to claim a child on taxes, that was put into place b/c people were claiming their pets as dependents. I'll have to ask my DH (masters in accounting) what the exact number was, but the first year the requirement was put into place, the number of dependent deductions plummeted.

ETA: I asked him, and he said he thinks it was a 30% drop in the dependent deductions.

[Zamber]

:
Interesting thread!!!

We did end up getting a SS# for our son. I was so busy doing research on our unassisted birth, not vaxing, breastfeeding, homeschooling, etc. that I never got around to the reasons not to give him a number. I really wish I would of at least looked into it. The thought of my son being drafted scares the crap out of me to say the least (or that his identity can be so easily stolen....).

Good for you on looking into all of the options for your child!

[mamaGjr]

Originally Posted by carolynrosa

*sigh*
The Social Security program is a Ponzi scheme. Just because it's government run, does not make it a good idea. As a voluntary 'retirement' plan, I am choosing not to enroll my child. She can always join the bandwagon later, if she chooses.
At best, SS is a raw deal. At worst, it's the perfect way to track and control people in a Nazi Police-State. Either way, I don't plan to allow my child to be taken advantage of or branded with this ID number. Luckily, it's still my choice.

Thanks for all the 'advice.' I guess next time I'll remember not to post about things that aren't 'conventional' enough.

Funny, but if I had asked for advice about, say, breastfeeding past 18 months, I imgaine I would have had a lot more support, or at least less criticism. Or even non-vaxing. I've never seen 'open minds' respond so negatively to something they obviously don't know much about.

I see that you are a "new member" I am somewhat new although I have been off and on for a few years . People seem to feel passionately about many ideas on this board in general. I am surprised that many of the posts in reply to your OP were a bit imflammatory. I have had the same experience though by posting in the wrong place etc. People seem to get bent out of shape rather easily - which perhaps is a "good"thing...at least people care about their specific issues

[chicagomom]

SSI is a national insurance program, not a retirement account. It was designed to assist people who outlive their savings, become disabled and cannot work, or whose parents die/become disabled. Call it whatever you want, but it has worked wonderfully for the past 70 years and supports many of the families visiting MDC every day.

Good luck.

[Yooper]

I do not deny the SSI is a good program. My mom needed it to take care of her two kids after my dad died. What I have a problem with is using the number for everything from tax deductions to student ID numbers. it is being used improperly and dangerously. I see nothing wrong with someone who feel strongly about this protesting the system. I do not feel that strongly since dd does have a ss#. But I see nothing wrong with people that do. So, you love the SSI program. Great. What difference does it make if someone elee choses to obstain fro themselves or children? I am glad someone has the balls to do it or else the number will continue to get abused forever. It is called passive protest and we support that sort of thing whole heartedly when it is a subject we are all familiar with.

Y

[MaShroom]

I got four pages into this thread and, quite frankly, can't read anymore. Free flowin' snark. For a second there I thought I was on one of those "other" boards! :

To the OP, I thought about this a lot, but did end up getting SSN's for all of my kids. On one hand I wish I hadn't, but on the other, I think it might have been a pita if I hadn't. I have known people who didn't though and the only thing that I saw as a problem was receiving government services.

I knew a woman who was living in her VW bus with her dd, just traveling all over. The dd didn't have a SSN and her mom was on welfare. Apparently, she couldn't get welfare for her daughter since she had no SSN. I don't know if this has changed since this was several years ago. Oh wait, it has, there's no more welfare as we knew it then. It was tough for them to get along on the small amount that the mom got but they survived. I don't know what ever happened to them.

Yeah, it is a radical idea to some, but geez folks, take a deep breath, it isn't a personal affront!!! I think more and more people are not getting a SSN's for their children, at least the people I know. These are people who A. Hate the government and B. Realize that Social Security is not going to help them out when they get older because even if it is still there they haven't paid in squat. They are not off the grid but they aren't part of the machine either. They don't plan on running from this mess of a country/government, although I know that the idea of expatriating has crossed their minds often. Hopefully, these will be the people whose children run the country someday.

[mystic~mama]

((mamathistle))

I second that!




I AM NOT A number.....

[FancyPants]

a somewhat ramble.. no sleep in 4 days

And I too have to wonder if you've ever traveled outside of the US at all. I am not patriotic, and this will be the last house you see waving the stars and stripes, but this issue seems to go beyond government paranoia (think you've watched way too much X-Files). I've lived in and traveled to more than 2 dozen countries, Muslim and Christian alike and although I don't like the current administration here in the US, life is NOT BAD in the US. Unike Swedes, I don't give up 60% of my earnings in taxes, unlike Germans, I don't have to tell the government if I moved from apartment A to apartment B, unlike Turks, I don't have to have a national identity card & number (which, for the record, also states your RELIGION!!!!) from my first moment of birth.

This is true of SOME countries but.....

Canada: I did not get a SIN until I was 15 and wanted to work, like most of my friends. The lady at the counter didn't think this any big deal. I realize that times may have changed.
Australia: I never got a SSN that I know of. I showed them my passport (I have dual citizenship) and at 17 I was given a job. Oh, and this BIG company (amusement park) paid all its workers every week - IN CASH.
Ireland: A few years ago I worked with a lady recently from Ireland. She had never had a SSN. She worked in IT, high tech.

Though I know of Canadians who have lived in the USA for a long time (own their own businesses etc) but never became permanent residents (or have a SSN). In my experience though, here in the US, people ask for your SSN all the time. In fact they EXPECT it. From a id theft point of view I think it is a nightmare. The HASSLE I get when I ask them if I can give other information even when I explain why. I never had this problem in Canada. People seemed to "get it".
As far as an ID tracker - honestly, I think that the US govt is going to start taking DNA samples at birth in another generation. :LOL


SSN will be required more and more because it CAN be tracked, via computers. There is good and bad in that but I think if you document your childs birth she can choose for herself whether or not she wants a SSN, right? In any case, if you both have SSN and she didn't have any proof, a simple paternity test ought to prove she is your kid. Ergo she has a right to US citizenship. I mean, where would they send her??

[mamarhu]

ElderSon was born out of the US and was 5 when I got him a SS# (needed for him to collect an inheritance and pay taxes on it). It was no problem, but I wonder what would be different if I had side-stepped it by getting him a taxpayer ID# or something.

A few years ago I changed my and my kids names & SS#s due to a major domestic violence situation. For 10 months, we didn't exist. It was quite inconvenient in some ways. I bought a business, but couldn't get a business license without a SS#. Couldn't get a job at all, of course; no welfare either. No bank account or driver's license. But at the same time, it was freeing. I seriously considered never establishing the new identity at all, and remaining nonexistant. There are days I wish I had...

I never had needed to show my SS card itself before, but in the last 6 weeks, I have been asked (demanded) for it 3 times: apartment rental application, student loan application, and once more I can't remember right now. Wouldn't you know - I can't find it!

[trmpetplaya]

We are not planning on getting our dc one. I also was hoping for ideas from this thread from others who have done it already. Our reasons are that we don't mind paying extra taxes. We don't need a rebate for giving our kids a SSN. It's a big decision that I do not want to make for anyone. They can make that decision when they're older and meanwhile we will render unto Caesar what is Caesar's. It's only paper for crying out loud :LOL I mean, some pps have talked about tax evasion, but isn't getting a number for your child going to mean that you pay less taxes? From all I know, you do have to have one for the child to get the tax credit. That's why my parents got me one at the age of five and not at birth. That's also why my number is a WA one and I was born in GA. Dh's is also a WA one and he was born in CA.

And it is not at all difficult to get one later in life - with proper documentation of course. In fact, in WA (where SSNs are required for a driver's license) you can get a driver's license without one as long as you sign an affidavit swearing that you've never had one. So as long as you've never had one, there's no problem. Obviously keeping good records as far as a birth certificate, etc. would be wise.

It's late, I'm tired, and I hope that all made sense

love and peace.

[nicole lisa]

Interesting thread.

The issue of ability to get a passport without a SS# came up a few times and I can (as of two weeks ago) answer this. BF and I are travelling to Europe next week and neither he nor I have ever had pasports. BF needed to apply at the US Embassy because he was born in the States. He doesn't have a SS# and it was no problem. It even states in the instructions that if you don't have a SS# just fill in that section with 0000000...

So no problem with getting a passport.

OT, but after 9/11 there were so many reports here from US media that Canada was the weak link when it comes to allowing terrorists in and that it's too easy for terrorists to get Canadian passports. Man, BF (who has never lived in the States but was born there) just needed to walk into the Embassy and provide his birth certificate and driver's license and two photos and his passport was ready two days later. For my passport (Canadian) I had to have a guarantor (with a professional designation: lawyer, charted accountant engineer, dr., etc) sign that she has known me at least 4 years and how and also sign one of my 2 photos as a guarantee the photo is a true likeness of me. Then I had to have two references who they could call up who would also vouch for who I am. I also needed the proof of residence like my driver's licensejust as BF needed for his.

Crazy.

[UmmBnB]

Both my kids got them right away. I just don't get what the big deal is. Sorry.

[Yooper]

The OP, who is long gone apparently, was not asking what people's opinions on SS#s were or whether you think it is a big deal. She was asking if anyone had gone without one and what their experience was. Some people don't see the "big deal" with breastfeeding, co-sleeping, GD, vaccines, etc..... None of us like to be dismissed about those things. Perhaps the OP is just as committed to her ideas about SS#s as some of us are about those other things.

[mystic~mama]

I personally know people who do not have or stopped using their ssn#'s....they work for themselves doing what they know, they dont bank or use credit...the way they live is different than the main stream, its harder but possible. What I see is these people have strong convictions, they strongly believe the system is wrong and they stand by that, its not an easy way to live these days and just looking at these people you can see they dont have it easy. I have a lot of respect for them and I understand where they are coming from and realize we all make that choice for ourselves. I would rather be aware of whats going on then to be blind to it.

[beansavi]

My Mom did not apply for my ss # until I was seventeen. Then it came, and that was that. I am now 38. I've had no probs. I also know she got tax deducations for me beforehand. But that was in the 60s and 70s.

I also agree that it is not our place to judge the OPs convictions. What kind of mutaully respectful community support is that? We don't have to agree to respect or show respect. In fact, showing respect when we disagree is such an enlightened thing to do!

[MaShroom]

Originally Posted by mystic~mama

((mamathistle))

I second that!




I AM NOT A number.....

Hey, thanks mystic!

[LauraN]

Originally Posted by velochic

BTW - I cannot even IMAGINE the kind of mess you might make for your child if he/she goes 18 years without a social security number, then wants to apply. 18 years from now, I wouldn't be surprised if he/she weren't just chucked into some military prison for that. To be 18 and just NOW applying for a SSN???? These are the kinds of things our paranoid government are just fishing for. Like I said, if you have a beef with the administration, with the establishment, with government... do your own fighting, don't make your kid an instrument. (P.S. I don't like big government, either.)

WHOA! There is no need to freak out. If the OP knows the real repercussions (no tax deduction) and is willing to live with them, then we don't need to invent ones to try to scare her. Military prison? Please. I didn't have a SSN until I applied to college. It was not difficult nor weird getting one at that point. People get SSNs at all different ages, believe it or not.

[velochic]

Originally Posted by LauraN

WHOA! There is no need to freak out. If the OP knows the real repercussions (no tax deduction) and is willing to live with them, then we don't need to invent ones to try to scare her. Military prison? Please. I didn't have a SSN until I applied to college. It was not difficult nor weird getting one at that point. People get SSNs at all different ages, believe it or not.

I'm not freaking out... I've been in political situations that can change in a fortnight. I worry that trying to live "under the line" but not "off the grid COMPLETELY" may cause problems in the future for a child. You either commit to a way of life that a child must follow, or you don't complicate things for them in the future.