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Anyone NOT gettting a Social Security Number for their children? - Page 4

post #61 of 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by matts_mamamama
I guess I just don't get what the big deal is. I'm not afraid of the government knowing what I do, where I am or what I buy. Who cares! Life is full of enough complications without spending my time worrying about who sees what I'm doing. I'd rather spend my energy worrying about how to keep my kids healthy and happy than them being on or off "the grid". But that's just me. If someone feels it's their life's work to fight the goverment, then so be it.

By the way, as far as the if you don't like it, get out (paraphrase), I'm in that camp too. I'm not against people fighting for what they believe in, but if you really believe that America is comparable to a Nazi Police State, you should try someplace else.

You summed up my feelings perfectly.
post #62 of 205
Wow, I am really surprised at some of the hostile reactions. CarolynRosa, sorry this has to be your experience with MDC so early on!

Anyway, to answer your questions (since I don't remember you asking for opinions on whether such a thing is right or wrong, I'll refrain from entering the debate):

Two of our children don't have SSNs. We have not claimed them for tax credit and to be honest I don't really know anything about ways to get around that. They do have health insurance, without SSNs, through BlueCross BlueShield.

I'm not particularly concerned about them getting SSNs eventually if they want to. It seems the process is fairly simple here -- a friend of mine's two grown children did it just recently, they had to get birth certificates as well, and had no trouble.
post #63 of 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by carolynrosa
Nevermind. Enjoy your Social Security checks someday.
I'm sure many of us will considering it's the primary source of income for many retired people in this country.

Quote:
When Social Security was launched 70 years ago Sunday, it was meant to be a supplement for retirees, not a full pension. But today, 10.6 million people, or 22% of the 48 million who will receive Social Security benefits this year, live on that check alone, the Social Security Administration says.
USAToday article
post #64 of 205
Well, maybe I'll just say one thing... :LOL

"if our government is an evil system... and you don't want your child to have a SS# you don't agree with your taxes, our government, in general everything this country is... then why not just move??

Man. I can hardly believe I'm reading this at MDC.

Personally, I don't equate "everything this country is" with everything the government does. I can love the land, I can love the culture (well, some of it :LOL), I can love my family and friends, I can love the many freedoms. In short, I want to live here. That doesn't mean that I should just lay down and take whatever a select group of people wants to dish out. IMO, the government should serve this country, but the government isn't this country. I am this country. The people around me are this country. And if you don't like me and the other many political activists who live here calling into question things our government does, maybe you can leave and go live in a totalitarian state that is more to your liking.
post #65 of 205
"I'm sure many of us will considering it's the primary source of income for many retired people in this country."

Well, for the time being anyway...
post #66 of 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by fourlittlebirds
Well, maybe I'll just say one thing... :LOL

"if our government is an evil system... and you don't want your child to have a SS# you don't agree with your taxes, our government, in general everything this country is... then why not just move??

Man. I can hardly believe I'm reading this at MDC.

Personally, I don't equate "everything this country is" with everything the government does. I can love the land, I can love the culture (well, some of it :LOL), I can love my family and friends, I can love the many freedoms. In short, I want to live here. That doesn't mean that I should just lay down and take whatever a select group of people wants to dish out. IMO, the government should serve this country, but the government isn't this country. I am this country. The people around me are this country. And if you don't like me and the other many political activists who live here calling into question things our government does, maybe you can leave and go live in a totalitarian state that is more to your liking.

Excellent post.
post #67 of 205
Except in a *real* Nazi state--like the Nazi Germany-- millions of people were tryng like crazy to get the hell out.

So I would say that if one felt at risk of being sent to the gas chambers, it would seem they might try and get to another oountry.

While I absolutely have thoughts on not getting SS #'s for my kids, I do know that anyone who thinks this is a Nazi state never lived in one.
post #68 of 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by carolynrosa
Egads, I sure am glad that you know what my goals are in this. You're sure "they will not be part of the economy at all, so to be in any system would go against the goal."? Come on. My children (all children) must be part of the economy, it's impossible not to be. I not planning on raising hermits.

What I don't see as neccessary is signing my children up for a retirement fund they don't need and for what has increasingly become a survellaince program for Americans.

I have no problem with the gov. knowing I have children. I just don't want to be pressured into something that I don't think makes sense.

Thanks for clarifying, though.
I said, "The feeling I get.." I didn't say that I KNOW what you want. I'd never say something like that.

As far as a retirement program your kids don't need, well... I don't agree with that at all. In fact, my mother, who is 64 years old LIVES off of her social security. She has no savings and this money is everything to her. I'm glad that you are wealthy enough to be able to thumb your nose at social security. We're not.

And I too have to wonder if you've ever traveled outside of the US at all. I am not patriotic, and this will be the last house you see waving the stars and stripes, but this issue seems to go beyond government paranoia (think you've watched way too much X-Files). I've lived in and traveled to more than 2 dozen countries, Muslim and Christian alike and although I don't like the current administration here in the US, life is NOT BAD in the US. Unike Swedes, I don't give up 60% of my earnings in taxes, unlike Germans, I don't have to tell the government if I moved from apartment A to apartment B, unlike Turks, I don't have to have a national identity card & number (which, for the record, also states your RELIGION!!!!) from my first moment of birth.

I pick my battles and SS isn't one of them. It does indeed personally irk me that people like my mother put in her dues for 50 years and because you have some issue with Big Brother, you don't. It's not just about you... you do, after all, live in a SOCIETY. As a consumer in this society, you have some things you don't like along with the benefits you do. All my opinion, and I rarely ever get into such online discussions, but this one just hit in the right place, I guess. I mean, my mother would be homeless without social security.
post #69 of 205
We considered not getting dd a ss#. I do not blieve that ss will be there for dd (or even us) when the time comes so I see it as sort of pointless and just another way for the government to track us. BUT dh and I do have a ss# so we do pay in. And actually we would be paying MORE taxes if dd did not have a ss# so I do not get the people who are "ticked" that "we are not participating". Do not get that. I really feel that dd should have a choice of having one or not. But we caved and got her one. It was just one too many battles.....homebirth, vaxxing, CDing, veganism, unschooling, AP, etc..... But I applaud people that do stand up and try and change our country. That is the whole point of a democracy. And dd does have health insurance even though we applied for it before she got her number and we have never provided it. We also have been able to work around providing the number for life insurance and stuff. It is not a big deal.

I really do not get the anger. What difference does it make to anyone outside of the OP's family? Her child can get one any time her/his little heart desires. Why does not wanting to slap a number on your child mean you should move to a different country? And why should wanting to make things better in the US a bad thing? Sure we might have it "good" but there is always room for improvement.

Why do I feel a country song coming on here.......? Very uncharacteristic of MDC.

PS: I am not meaning to bash country fans....I have been known to closet listen myself......
post #70 of 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by yoopervegan
But I applaud people that do stand up and try and change our country. That is the whole point of a democracy.
I know I'm being heated with my discussion of this, but this is exactly my point and why it matters to me what the OP does. If people feel this strongly about things, not participating in something like social security automatically means that this person can't VOTE. And our VOTE is the single most powerful item we have at our disposal to make changes (unless you're a millionaire and can afford your own lobbying company of lawyers). By not being "part" of the government, we can't be heard!!! Yes, it's a catch-22, but I'd rather see zealots use their real power to make changes, not make political statements that are only personal and private.
post #71 of 205
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fourlittlebirds
Wow, I am really surprised at some of the hostile reactions. CarolynRosa, sorry this has to be your experience with MDC so early on!

Anyway, to answer your questions (since I don't remember you asking for opinions on whether such a thing is right or wrong, I'll refrain from entering the debate):

Two of our children don't have SSNs. We have not claimed them for tax credit and to be honest I don't really know anything about ways to get around that. They do have health insurance, without SSNs, through BlueCross BlueShield.

I'm not particularly concerned about them getting SSNs eventually if they want to. It seems the process is fairly simple here -- a friend of mine's two grown children did it just recently, they had to get birth certificates as well, and had no trouble.

Thanks. I have BCBS, too, and DH found out yesterday it should be no problem getting coverage w/o the SSN for DD.
Yes, many people just get a SSN when they are alder when they want to, I guess.
Anyway, thanks. This is the type of response I was originally looking for.
post #72 of 205
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by velochic
And I too have to wonder if you've ever traveled outside of the US at all. I am not patriotic, and this will be the last house you see waving the stars and stripes, but this issue seems to go beyond government paranoia (think you've watched way too much X-Files). I've lived in and traveled to more than 2 dozen countries, Muslim and Christian alike and although I don't like the current administration here in the US, life is NOT BAD in the US. Unike Swedes, I don't give up 60% of my earnings in taxes, unlike Germans, I don't have to tell the government if I moved from apartment A to apartment B, unlike Turks, I don't have to have a national identity card & number (which, for the record, also states your RELIGION!!!!) from my first moment of birth.
FYI: I lived for 11 years overseas on three different continents. Many other countries are a lot more free than our in many ways. But of course, America is still the most free in many of the most important ways. But more and more, we are losing those freedoms, and I am not content to sit around and be satisfied with the status quo.

I am an American, and that means I expect to be able to fight the encroaching police state (yes, I said Police State). What the hell else do you call if when you are randomly searched in various places, asked for identification, presresumed to be a terrorist until you can prove otherwise? I mean, the airlines routinely strip search children and old people in airports now! (Oh, wait, that's 'Protecting' our freedom, right?)

I mean, they (the police) taser pregnant women and children in our country these days over minor infractions. Sometimes over nothing. How could that kind of use of force be justified? I mean, a TASER?!

Anyone who cannot see who we are BECOMING a much less free country is blind. When there is a better country to go live in, I will go, running gladly. But this is still the most free country on Earth, and I for one, plan to fight to keep it that way, and to not let the government become the BIG BROTHER it wants to be.
post #73 of 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by velochic
I know I'm being heated with my discussion of this, but this is exactly my point and why it matters to me what the OP does. If people feel this strongly about things, not participating in something like social security automatically means that this person can't VOTE. And our VOTE is the single most powerful item we have at our disposal to make changes (unless you're a millionaire and can afford your own lobbying company of lawyers). By not being "part" of the government, we can't be heard!!! Yes, it's a catch-22, but I'd rather see zealots use their real power to make changes, not make political statements that are only personal and private.
You cannot vote without a ss#? In my state you can get a driver's licence with a birth certificate and another form of ID (ss card being one of several to choose from....I believe I used my high school photo ID). And I was able to register to vote with a driver's licence and birth certificate. I did not have to provide a ss# or card. This was 15 years ago though.....

And 50% of our country does not vote even though most have ss#'s. Why not get really mad at them? If the OP's dc wants to vote (and a ss# is indeed necessary) he/she can decide to get one at that time. There are many ways to change our country for the better that have nothing to do with voting. I would even argue that voting is one of the least effective means since most voters are mainstream media-informed about the candidates. The biggest democratic impact I can think of is teaching other people the real situation about the candidate choices. By doing something "radical" like stepping out of the ss# ring, people start to question you. And questioning often leads to enlightenment. Who can say which impact is greater? Voting or standing up for something you believe in even if it prevents you from voting?

This is starting to get off topic but voting is not the only way to impact a democracy. Very thought provoking I must say.
post #74 of 205
Interesting thread. I didn't consider not getting a SSN, I really want to travel with ds and I am not sure a passport can be obtained without one.
I would also wonder, if something happened to both dh and me, would there be a delay with ds (or his guardians) having access to our assets if he is does not have a SSN? I really don't know, but depending on your situation it might be something to consider? Just a thought.

If we are going to sing a country song, can it be Willie Nelson?
post #75 of 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by Attila the Honey
We strongly considered not getting a ssn for our child if we had a son, but we had a daughter. The most compelling reason we heard for not having a ssn is that you can't be drafted into war without one.
If this is your biggest concern, you can allow yourself to feel better. It's absolutely not true that you need a SSN to be drafted into war. You don't need one to register for selective service, and you definitely don't need one to be tracked down. I actually just read an article where two minor children were tracked down in the Selective Service's quest to register a person whose name they had made up to get a free ice cream cone.
post #76 of 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonfly
If this is your biggest concern, you can allow yourself to feel better. It's absolutely not true that you need a SSN to be drafted into war. You don't need one to register for selective service, and you definitely don't need one to be tracked down. I actually just read an article where two minor children were tracked down in the Selective Service's quest to register a person whose name they had made up to get a free ice cream cone.
Wow, that is scary. But thanks for the heads up! I had never heard it debunked, and I had a hard time finding the exact connection between ssn and the draft but that is the reason I hear most frequently.

As for voting, my ssn never came into the equation when I registered to vote. I don't believe you need a ssn to vote, at least not in my state/district.
post #77 of 205
The first place i was ever randomly searched was France. I've never been searched in the US. I have dark blond hair and green eyes. I am not black or arabic etc.

Most europeans nations have ID cards that one is supposed to carry at all times. In places like Singapore, there are cameras on every corner and you can get arrested for spitting out your gum.

On what continents have you lived?
post #78 of 205
Do the Amish register for Social Security Numbers? What about Mennonites, Quaker, and Hutterites?
post #79 of 205
Well I've partly answered my own question.

I ran a google search and the first article I found was at HSLDA (an organization I object too for many reasons, but as a homeschooler can appreciate some of their convictions).

I won't link to it but essentially it explains and supports the parents, who they number in the thousands, in our country who do not use SS#'s as a matter of faith and views on goverment interference with religious freedoms.

My point is that I think many more people in this country don't use SS#'s than you might assume. The Amish, Mennonite, Quaker and I think Hutterites do not believe in many government systems, and most of us aren't upset with them.

Why be so harsh towards the OP?
post #80 of 205
Thread Starter 
heartmama-

I looked that organization up and read a few of the articles. Thanks for the info. I hadn't found that site in my seaches, but it has some good info.
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