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Anyone NOT gettting a Social Security Number for their children? - Page 5

post #81 of 205
Now, I'm not sure if not getting my kiddos a SS# would help anything, but I would like to be as invisable to the government as possible. From what I have read, the numbers just do not add up correctly for me to be able to collect the social security $ I have put in (I'm 22) because the system will be bankrupt long before then, at this current rate. For this reason, I think that the SS# will become only a government identification number, a way for them to quickly pull up data on anyone.

For instance, I have gotten out of jury duty on a Drs note, we have had the cops called on our house 3 times for loud music, I will have all my children unassisted, will selectivly vax, homeschol, and I have a gun registered in my name. I am thinking that if all of these things are tied to my SS# in a data base some where (which they very well could be, except for the kid stuff, which hasn't happend yet), then it is quite likely that a "point system" or something else like that could be tied to these choices and coorilate with my degree of "risk to society" or something like that.

And for the record, I have been searched at an airport. I was patted down as a single 18-year-old white girl with brown eyes/hair, no tattoos, piercings, anything out of the ordinary, going from CA to AZ. We don't fly now. It is not appropriate for anyone to touch me that way that I did not invite. And if I had refused (now I would, but I didn't then) then I am willing to bet that I would have had some trouble with the law, or at least not permitted to board the flight. I didn't set off any metal detectory or anything, absolutely nothing suspicious.

I can just see the airport 'security' spreading, and potentially your SS#/Tracking# being used as a 'security measure. I'd like to just live my life as quietly and anonoymously (sp? lol) as possible, and wish for my kids to do the same.

For this reason, we've also moved from CA to MT, where being left alone is much more likely

Just my thoughts...
post #82 of 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by heartmama
Why be so harsh towards the OP?
There are relatively few people on this thread who are actually being harsh toward the OP. Why the focus on them and not the rest of us who are actually interested in discussion?
post #83 of 205
This is such an interesting discussion. Certainly something I had never given a thought about really. I agree with the OP and others who have stated that we are loosing our freedoms in the US and that the SSN is being tied to more and more things. I signed my dd (3 yrs) up for dance classes last week and they wanted to know her and my SSN. I asked the registrar why and she couldn't really give me an answer other than they would report us to the credit bureaus if we failed to pay the tuition on time. I told her I was paying in full for the year that day and that I was going to leave those lines blank.

OP...even though I can't give you support in the way of "yes we do this too" that you were looking for, I just want to say that I do support your right to do this. Thanks for giving me something else to ponder today...and another excuse to stay at the computer rather than wash the dishes.
post #84 of 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by heartmama
Do the Amish register for Social Security Numbers? What about Mennonites, Quaker, and Hutterites?
Amish and Hutterites live a similar life removed from "the world" and some of the more strict Mennonite orders do as well. They may not get ssns, but I don't know.

Quakers, on the other hand, although one of the three historic Peace Churches (along with the Mennonites and Brethren) are car-drivin, tv-watchin' (well, not me, but plenty others), fully engaged in the world folks. I have never heard of any of us not getting ssns. Although there may well be some.
post #85 of 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by myhoneyswife

And for the record, I have been searched at an airport. I was patted down as a single 18-year-old white girl with brown eyes/hair, no tattoos, piercings, anything out of the ordinary, going from CA to AZ. We don't fly now. It is not appropriate for anyone to touch me that way that I did not invite. And if I had refused (now I would, but I didn't then) then I am willing to bet that I would have had some trouble with the law, or at least not permitted to board the flight. I didn't set off any metal detectory or anything, absolutely nothing suspicious.
Hey, my 2.5 year old was searched. Multiple times. And me, and my husband. No, we don't look "suspicious," but I'd rather they search randomly rather than targeting specific ethnic people for profiling. It's safer, honestly - you can't just assume terrorists will look like X. Europe is far more invasive in their airport screenings, asking you multiple questions multiple times; and once you pass a certain security checkpoint you're basically in a holding pen with no chance of escape! I would far rather give up some personal privacy in a physical way going through security than that pointless flight database, which is ridiculous and I doubt will prevent any terrorism whatsoever. I feel much safer departing from Europe than the US; they have - due to unfortunate history - the counterterrorism experience regarding flights.

But that's me - I love travelling. I would love to see the same level of professionalism employed at my local airport as in Amsterdam, but with outsourcing and budget cuts behind the facade, I don't think so. My airport security personnel look like they've been using some of the confiscated drug paraphenalia themselves before going to work. It is a boring job, but still...

I agree with the SS# being used in too many ways, too frivolously, with little recourse for those who've suffered ID theft from either governmental or private sources. But I think the answer may be in demanding open disclosure of records and consumer access to their own records, both of which the government and private industry (credit bureaus) oppose. Jerks! I know people in the security industry, and it is waaaay too easy for (in)accurate personal information to be bought, sold, and resold through governmental and private sources. When you combine the two (flight database) then it's a whole 'nother mess that is just ridiculous. All the credit companies think I'm two years older than I actually am, which is hilarious because I can't even fix it, if I wanted to. I think open government is really the answer.

Yes, I know pigs can't fly.
post #86 of 205
We considered delaying getting dd's ssn# until she actually wanted to open a bank account or work. That's why I got one when I was a child to open a savings account. If we're going to have National ID cards, fine then have them and let's not use the numbers for other things making it easier for id's to be stolen.

OTOH I don't think I understand living off of the grid but that's the socialist in me. I live in a society so there are certain costs to living in a society. Taxes to me are a worthwhile cost. Social security is a worthwhile cost as well. But that's probably b/c I know lots of old ladies who were sahms who would not have any income after their spouses died without it, including my grandmother.

I also don't understand paranoia about the government. I don't trust the government. But I believe I have a greater chance of effecting change within the system than without.

And all the Quakers I know have ssn#'s. I don't think it's mandatory in order to get drafted. Especially since schools have to turn over lists of students as part of No Child Left Behind.
post #87 of 205
This is a very interesting thread. I wish more people had personal experience to share with OP. I wish it were easier to opt out of the SSN; it just seems to affect so many aspects of modern life even though that perhaps wasn't the original intent.

Over 4 million babies are born in the US every year. What if 1 million of them didn't get a SS#? Or 2 million? Perhaps society's reliance on and use of it would have to change. Working together, but retaining our individuality, maybe that's how we can improve the lives of our children and our children's children.
post #88 of 205
Ds doesn't have a SS#, and we have insurance as of recently. I don't know about tax breaks, though, as that's not really something we even considered when we made the decision, honestly.
Our reasons for not getting him one are similar to religious reasons, I guess. Governments go bad sometimes, and if America gets goofy, it will be really goofy. Then again, if that happens, it your SS# probably won't be any huge key factor, anyway. Really, I'm just delaying getting ds a # till I figure out which way the wind is really blowing.
I guess, to be honest, I'm a bit of a conspiracy theorist at heart. I can see the possibility of keeping him under the radar possibly being beneficial, though I really don't know. I might decide in a year or 2 that I was just being paranoid. We might wait it out till he's 15, and then get him a #. We might move to Australia in 5 years. Who knows?
For the time being, though, I'm very happy that we're keeping ds relatively undocumented. If the SHTF, I feel like we have a few resources to help buy some time while we formulate a plan. I know that probably sounds paranoid, but hey...just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you, as the saying goes.

BTW, to the OP...MDC isn't usually this hostile. Sometimes, but not usually. Stick around. Don't let a few "you're harming your child!!!" posts get to you. It's not usually like this.
post #89 of 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by zinemama
Quakers, on the other hand, although one of the three historic Peace Churches (along with the Mennonites and Brethren) are car-drivin, tv-watchin' (well, not me, but plenty others), fully engaged in the world folks. I have never heard of any of us not getting ssns. Although there may well be some.
There is a certain "sect" of Friends, the Wilburites, who are still living a "plain" lifestyle. Scott Savage, who is Wilburite, wrote a book about his decision to live "plain," and in it he stated that he did not obtain a birth certificate (and thus no SSN) for at least one of his homebirthed children.

I can understand the SSN. It's an easy matter for a kid to get one later on in life; I did. It really is no big deal. But a birth certificate means that in the eyes of the government, that child doesn't even EXIST and that's a pretty radical decision to make for anyone else, even your own child. THose children will grow up and who knows what life decisions they're gonna want to make, and here he's taken the options away from them.
post #90 of 205
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zinemama
Amish and Hutterites live a similar life removed from "the world" and some of the more strict Mennonite orders do as well. They may not get ssns, but I don't know.

Quakers, on the other hand, although one of the three historic Peace Churches (along with the Mennonites and Brethren) are car-drivin, tv-watchin' (well, not me, but plenty others), fully engaged in the world folks. I have never heard of any of us not getting ssns. Although there may well be some.
Well, you've heard of it now. I'm Quaker.
post #91 of 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by carolynrosa
Well, you've heard of it now. I'm Quaker.
Which sect? There are a bunch of Quakers in my family as well.
post #92 of 205
No, I want my kids to be able to, IF THEY WISH, work, drive, own property, get health insurance and get a bank account.

And it's NOT easy to get an SSN. Just ask my grandparents.
post #93 of 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sly Soprano
No, I want my kids to be able to, IF THEY WISH, work, drive, own property, get health insurance and get a bank account.

And it's NOT easy to get an SSN. Just ask my grandparents.
I don't know the particulars of your gparent's situation, but I didn't get my ssn until I was 14 or 15 and it wasn't difficult. Just a matter of filling out a form and sending in my birth certificate.

After my dd was born my mother was surprised that she was given a SSN right away, she said people used to wait until they needed it for some reason. I am not sure why it has changed, maybe it only (fairly) recently become necessary to have a SSN to get the tax deductions for having children? (Because I am certain my mom wouldn't have passed those up for 14 years!)

In fact, I have a bunch of savings bonds in my name with my mother's SSN on them because they were gifts when I was a baby. As of yet I've had no trouble cashing them in at all with my ID, despite the fact they have my mother's # on them.

In my experience, getting a SSN later was no extra trouble at all. What were your grandparent's hurdles?
post #94 of 205
We got one for my dd but I don't see a problem with waiting until a child is working age before deciding to get one.
When I was growing up I don't think my siblings or myself got one until we were 10 or 12... I remember getting it. It wasn't hard at that time to get.

I know it has been stated in this thread once that participating in social security is voluntary but that is not what the social security administration says.

Quote:
Question
Am I required to participate in the Social Security program?


Answer
Participation in the Social Security program is mandatory with respect to the payment of Social Security taxes. Unless specifically exempt by law, everyone working in the United States is required to pay Social Security taxes on earnings from employment. These earnings are subject to Social Security tax without regard to the citizenship or place of residence of either the employer or the employee.

The authority for the collection of taxes, including Social Security taxes, is found in the Internal Revenue Code, not the Social Security Act. (See sections 3101(a) and 3102(a) of the Code.) We suggest that you direct any questions you may have about tax liability to that Agency for consideration. The address is:

Internal Revenue Service
1111 Constitution Avenue NW
Washington, D.C. 20224.
That makes it seem like the only way it is voluntary is if you do not work or have a special exemption. Does anyone know what the exemptions would be?
post #95 of 205
It is mandatory to pay into ss. It is voluntary to collect. People that have no ss# do have to pay in (such as non-citzens working in the U.S.). They use their tax I.D. number just like businesses. While your child does need a ss# for you to get a deduction, legally your child does not need a number to work, get a licence, vote, etc.....
post #96 of 205
So, I guess it makes sense to not get a SSN as a worker if you're confident that SS will not be around. Otherwise, you'd pretty much be cheating yourself, as SS takes a pretty big chunk out of your paycheck.
post #97 of 205
I'm not sure what the deal is of not getting babies/kids ssn? We have sin # here, and I've never heard of ppl getting them for kids. The only reason I've ever heard is to get the resp thing since you need one for the gov't to give you interest. We don't need them for tax purposes ect. I remember when I got mine- when I was getting a job. I think it's icky (for me) to get one for my babe. Our ils want us to so we can get the resp thing, but it just feels too creepy to me
When dd is older, we'll get one then.
post #98 of 205
They didn't have birth certificates, or at least not with their names. I know they finally found one that said "Baby" for my grandma with her birthday and ended up using that. I'm not sure about the rest.
post #99 of 205
Quote:
So, I guess it makes sense to not get a SSN as a worker if you're confident that SS will not be around. Otherwise, you'd pretty much be cheating yourself, as SS takes a pretty big chunk out of your paycheck.
As yooper says, it's compulsory to pay ss tax, citizen, holder of a ss number or not, if you work in the US for a certain period of time, you pay ss tax.
post #100 of 205
To the OP,
No advice here, as I'm one of those who (possibly naievely?) has no worries about being watched by the govt, but just wanted to encourage you to stay around here at MDC. I do think a few of the previous posters were being pretty hostile to you but not the majority. This is a great place.

Best of luck!
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