what makes pregnancy/birth for a queer couple different?

[pamamidwife]

Ok, mamas, help me out here.

As a woman, I've always identified as bisexual. I've had a couple relationships with women, but more so with men. I've been around lesbians my entire adult life (ok, now I'm sounding like one of those "well, I have Asian friends..." people....).

In my apprenticeship, we served three lesbian couples. I didn't think about it much and because it wasn't MY practice, I didn't do much research on the topic. Sorry excuse, I know.

Now I was just hired by a lesbian couple in my own practice. I've always been proud of the fact that my forms and literature that I hand out to clients are not gender specific in terms of partners. But, I know that I still need help in other areas.

What were some issues that you faced as a queer couple when getting care for your pregnancy/birth? What are some things you wish your provider would have known? What things made your pregnancy/birth easier?

Thanks, mamas.

[pamamidwife]

wanted to add that I have a great book by Stephanie Brill (who rocks, btw) and I just ordered this DVD: http://www.birthtalkproductions.com/.

Others?

[chfriend]

I love this question. I'm going to think on it and respond....

[max_4477]

Here are a few thoughts:

-people are sometimes unreasonably nosey about our pregnancies & how we got pg

-many health care providers are weird about gay sex - even if you aren't you will have to prove it

-many if not most of us had to pay close attention to our fertility and shell out a lot of cash to get pregnant

-hospitals, etc. may not be friendly to our families, respect our partners, etc. I want to know you will advocate for us in the face of those systems. We have probably had negative experiences with health care providers in the past.

-Our families of origin are less likely to be supportive of our partnerships & pregnancies. As a result we may have more close friends acting as family (like as birth support people)

-There is no one truth about lesbains/queer women so try to just take this type of information just as background and know that the individuals you are working with will have their own stories

Just a few thoughts to get you started...

[pamamidwife]

Originally Posted by max_4477

-people are sometimes unreasonably nosey about our pregnancies & how we got pg.

This is the one thing I remember from previous workings with lesbian moms. It seems that with hetero couples, nobody asks what position they were in when they conceived, yet everyone and their dog "needs" to know if a lesbian slept with a man (*gasp*) or used a "turkey baster". It's amazing to me how forward people are in their probing for very personal information.

Thanks for the tips. Keep 'em coming!

[Kincaid]

My main suggestion is to be aware that many lesbians had to resort to medicated cycles - clomid, injectibles, etc. Lots of reasons that lesbians end up with medical intervention when trying to get pregnant - the cost of donor sperm and IUI... because of typically older TTC age affecting fertility... often there is a very limited number of vials of the desired donor and so there is a limit on attempts possible... and because they are already one foot in the door with intervention (using donor sperm) thus more likely to be nudged into infertility services.

I know many midwives and doulas who make negative/derogatory remarks about non-natural fertility methods (like clomid). If it were not for clomid, and injectibles, I never would have gotten pregnant. My age, infertility issues, and then using donor sperm were a double whammy.
Natural approaches might work super over the long haul and have less negative affects... but remember that sperm you are buying every month? When a cycle of TTC costs you $1200 per month for just the basics, and you have gone thru 3 or 4 cycles with no pregnancy... you become more likely to stimulate your follicle production to get better odds.

It is also good to know that the conception is often (I would say VERY often) not the fairy-tale conception that folks might hope. The conception can even be a sore topic for couples... when you end up having to get pregnant in stirrups on an exam table and your partner could not get away from work on the 8th cycle and that just happens to be the one... The TTC process is way more tense and stressful for lesbians than a lot of folks realize. The expense, the uncertainty, the let down. The dirty secret among folks I know is that there was a lot of arguing during the TTC process, often even panicked fears that you are making a big mistake even considering having a baby together. The good news is that it passes and hopefully with time you forget that you thought that!

There is a great book you can read, it is a memoir called "Buying Dad" - a lesbian couple write about their TTC process, you get a glimpse into the strain it causes on couples.

[jembradl]

Great question!

The fact that you are asking it says a lot already!

One thing that I'm not sure is true for other folks but was true for me was that I went 2 weeks postdates and eventually gave up and had a Cervidil (sp?) induction because my midwife didn't think it was safe to keep going. I tried a gazillion natural inducers -- went through an entire bottle of Evening Primrose Oil. I was ready in all other ways, the baby had dropped and everything, but nothing was going to induce my cervix to open!!! I just had to wonder if there had been some sperm around if it would have done the trick. And I wonder how many other lesbians have this same issue.

And yes, people are really nosy abotu conception. One relative acutally asked me if the pregnancy was an accident!!!!! Can you immagine someone asking a straight couple that? And it is so much more likely to actually BE an accident.

[mother culture]

I have been to classes with Stephanie Brill and I highly reccommend her book! I also think that It differs from couple to couple and all dynamics are different. As a midwife that Is our job as a guide to help couples figure out their roles in pregnancy and opening up dialogue. Bring up subjects that are personal like how do you want to be supported or do you want perineal massage from your partner. I don't think it would be any different than a man or woman partner but I don't personally know.

[megincl]

First off, I agree that it is wonderful that you ask. I'm sure you'll provide even better support just because you are putting forethought into your work with these women.

Second, my family is in the video that you got!!!! We had childbirth classes with the filmmaker and are friends with the other folks in the video as well. Aime, the filmmaker, is wonderful!

As the non-bio parent, I would emphasize the importance of attending to the needs of the non-bio mom in your visits. For us, this happened through the midwife asking questions clearly to both of us. She never just looked at my partner when posing a question. I also came with questions to appointments, having read madly on pregnancy and birthing. I'd encourage both women to bring questions to you. I'm sure it's REALLY easy to just focus on the pregnant mom in your appointments, but, in whatever ways possible, work to bring the other mom into the experience as well. Perhaps even one separate meeting to talk about ways to support the preggo mama during childbirth, or something like that.

That's it for now....good luck!

megin, mommy to quinn, wife to the amazing katie~

[lunadoula]

So glad you are asking these questions! I'll speak from my experience as a doula working mostly with lesbians, as well as my experience just at the beginning of the TTC process:

- I agree that the Brill book is good. I think it covers a lot of the potential emotional/relationship issues that queer women might deal with.

-Language language language. It's a "duh" but inclusive language is so important.

-Don't assume anything about the woman's partner (if she has one) - and don't make assumptions based on looks! (such as "this is a butch/femme couple" or that kind of thing) I know it's a "duh", but seriously, I have even done it I'll admit, and I'm queer.

-Also about the partner - don't assume that b/c she's a woman she wants/will be that involved in labor support. Also regarding non-birth moms - they often have some of the same feelings/issues as dads but not completely. Depending on the non-birth mom, the couple, and their history of getting pregnant, certain things can be difficult. I have worked with couples where the pregnant mom is not even the one that really wanted to be pregnant - sometimes her partner was the "baby crazy" one and tried to get pregnant but could not, and then the other woman got pregnant on the first try. In this type of situation, there could be a lot of emotional pain around not being the one pregnant, getting attention, etc. I think dads go through similar things (i.e. not being able to feed baby if mom is nursing) but with same sex couples it can be much more of an issue (i.e. the situation with Rosie ODonnell where she made Kelly stop nursing - I've seen/heard this happen before). I've been to baby showers and blessingways where the non-birth mom is not even honored in any way. People just don't seem to get it - it can be a really sensitve issue. Wanting to be seen as an "equal" parent and sometimes really sensitive, can be because of internalized homophobia at times (questioning "am I *really* an equal parent? can I *really* be a good parent?)

-On the other hand, I've worked with couples where it was expected by midwives, friends, hospital staff that the non-birth mom would be a *great* all-knowing labor support person, just being a woman. Um, no. Maybe, but sometimes non-birth moms are even more uncomfortable with birth than many dads I work with!

- Don't ask how they got pregnant unless they are personal, close friends, or they bring it up.

- As others said, be sensitive that many have had a lot of medical intervention to get pregnant. Often I see lesbians going to high-tek OB's just because they needed a lot of medical intervention to get pregnant, not realizing they don't necessarily need a lot of pregnancy intervention.

- I think you're doing all the right things - reading, asking questions. As long as you have a good heart (which obviously you do!) and you are open, you'll do great! I'll just say that personally, we want a homebirth midwife who is lesbian friendly, and has worked with lesbians, but beyond that we just want a really great midwife! Birth is birth. :LOL

[lunadoula]

also wanted to add that in almost all instances, our children are not "oops" babies - they are very planned and wanted.

[pamamidwife]

Originally Posted by megincl

Second, my family is in the video that you got!!!! We had childbirth classes with the filmmaker and are friends with the other folks in the video as well. Aime, the filmmaker, is wonderful!

Megin, I don't know if it is because you're an MDC mama, but you two were my faves to listen to on the entire video! I loved it. I thought it was really well done - and I loved your wife's eyes as you were talking about the birth. You could tell that it meant so much to both of you!

[MichelleW]

research on queer birthing experiences/narratives

wow! i am so excited to see this topic here, and brought up by a midwife/doula at that! so great!

i came to ask myself this question a couple of years ago, and applied to do my Masters on the narratives of queer couples' birthing experiences in British Columbia. I am in the midst of my fieldwork and looking for new participants who are either pregnant or post-partum (birthed in the last 3 years that live in BC -- I will travel). So far my participants have brought up some of these same issues: getting asked how they got pregnant, that much more planning goes on to conceive, and if one person has problems conceiving that the doctor may suggest the other partner tries to get pregnant (which can be viewed as inappropriate), etc.

Also, I am thinking about the choices that are made about the birth itself: where is it taking place (are more lesbians desiring homebirth or less medical birth?), who is present & what careproviders are used at the birth (doula, midwife, GP, etc), the role of the non-birthing partner in the birth. But I also am focusing on what other aspects of identity play into the choices that are being made & the experience of the birth (ie: spirituality, geographic location, ethnicity, age of the partner[s]), etc.

My hope is that out of my research (which has its base in cultural anthropology), not only will I complete my thesis, but also be able to make up some sort of pamphlet or resource for queers/lesbians/dykes/bisexual women/transmen to access. While my research focuses on couples, I am not wanting to ignore the expeirences of single women or group situations. I simply needed to narrow my focus for my study, and I have an interest in the experience of the non-birthing partner.

Oh, and I am also asking my participants which resources they find useful and what resources they'd like to see created (which I may attempt to create). And also, I am hoping that my website queerparenting.ca will be up in the next couple of months.

Sorry for the long-windedness.

If you are interested in participating in my research or would like more information about it, please do not hesitate to contact me at: [e-mail]

[pamamidwife]

my first prenatal with them went great and I used some of the suggestions here.

I told them that, just like with my deaf clients, I cannot begin to understand or comprehend the discriminations and generalizations made within their culture. I admitted that I will probably make some mistakes, say or do things that they might feel is inappropriate and I asked them to point them out. I told them that without education, we never learn and they should feel free to let us know when we say/do something inappropriate.

I really appreciate all the advice and help from this thread. While I think I knew quite a bit of it, hearing it again brought it to my attention and kept it in the forefront of my mind, rather than assuming that "yeah, I know about that, whatever...".

[HippoMommy]

I 100% ditto Kincaid's post, and also really appreciate you for asking.

Our beautiful DD's conception involved a lot of intervention, Clomid, IUI, etc and it followed an early miscarriage, so I and DP were less than relaxed/having fun. However, once the pregnancy was well underway, we had a blast. It was a great pregnancy and we had a really terrific natural birth with a direct entry midwife at a birth center (could've/would've had a homebirth, but our home was not conducive at the time). So I'd have to say that it may be that there aren't too many differences, once you get to the point that mama is pregnant and plans for baby are afoot. I do know some couples for whom the family configuration is complex (known donor who is taking a role in baby's life, for example), and this meant a different than usual bunch of folks attended the birth, etc.

One moment that was less than thrilling at DD's birth. Shortly after she was born, our lovely midwife's apprentice (who was truly divine during the birth and a real support to me) was holding DD and said "somewhere out there a man became a daddy today." Now we used an unknown donor's sperm (from a cryobank), and so I flinched. The word "daddy" implies a relationship that didn't exist and it really made me uncomfortable. She should've known better (although I grant that the strong emotions elicited in everyone attending a birth have made goofballs of many a wise person). . . .

Beyond that, I applaud your vulnerability and willingness to listen/learn. Thanks.

[JRose]

Good for you! We had homebirth midwives and they were wonderful. They treated us both like real parents and basically told us they generally treat all their families the same regardless of the makeup of the family.

I agree with the pps that state the annoyance with being asked how the little one was conceived however I think we potentially come to our prenatals with conception "baggage" that is important for the midwife to know. For example I was very unhappy with all the fertility interventions we had and therefore wanted as natural of a birth as possible. Plus despite having a lesbian Ob/Gyn and one that specializes in infertility assisted in our getting pregnant she was less than understanding of how fertility issues affect one emotionally. I shared all of this with our midwives through our many conversations and they responded appropriately and compassionately.

It sounds like you already have been for this couple but my only advice is to just support them in the decisions they have made and the decisions they will make in knowing what is best for their family. Good luck!