Addressing the Special Needs of Gifted Children, #6 - Page 32

[ChristaN]

I participate in a lot of listservs and I am otherwise busy (as I'm sure you all are) so I apologize if I am one of the people to whom Jen was referring in not responding to her posts. I only respond to things if I feel like I have something pertinent or useful to add.

I haven't visited the toddlers thread to which you all have been referring, but I did say something a few pages back about that conversation b/c it makes me very sad to think that other moms feel we are bragging and trying to create drama where it doesn't truly exist. Again, if that came off poorly -- as wallowing in self-pity, I truly don't mean it that way. My dd is melodramatic and life with her is drama enough. I feel lucky to be her mom and very glad that she is mine b/c I understand her. Her mind and heart (emotions) work much like mine do. And, I worry about her, not b/c I am pitying myself having such a child, but because she is so emotionally intense that she tends toward depression.

I hope that I can say that without appearing to be a whiner. If I post that I worry about dd being depressed on the other boards here, I am prone to getting comments about her diet being the cause and I am tired of defending our lifestyle choices (I'm vegan and the kids are vegetarian). I am pretty confident that I understand what is going on with dd and I am pretty sure that I am not doing anything to cause it. I just want to be able to commiserate with people who understand periodicially.

[BoyGirlTwinsAPMama]

I was thinking about people saying we are bragging about our children here and I have this to say about it: Those people don't CARE about our children and that is why they think we are bragging. If they cared at all about our children, like if they were related or good friends, it probably wouldn't be seen as bragging but as SHARING our real life adventures and issues, which is exactly what we do here on this thread. I personally am THRILLED with the details that mothers share here, their feelings, their experiences, their reflections on their children, because it helps me to understand the greater experience of being "gifted" and what it means for my children and my family specifically. It helps me stear my kids in the direction that I see to be a better path for them and not to go down the "already tried and failed" paths that other moms are warning about here sometimes and to try the things that are working well. And I will continue to add my 2 cents b/c I feel that other parents can get insight from my experiences. No one can be friends with everyone and I think that people who are too too self-centered will probably not get anything from this thread b/c it is not about them and their child specifically and thus they might not be interested in anyone else's experiences. But for me, it is VERY helpful in my daily life and planning my children's future and sometimes just to vent about the frustrations of having very intellectually capable children and sometimes, OH YES, to BRAG about how wonderful my kids are (I am their mother and as such, I am allowed to think they are the best children in the world, it is their birthright).Of course, if I was going on the developmentally way behind thread or handicapped or sick thread and then crowing about my kids accomplishments, my word, that would be so insensitive of me and downright rude. But on a thread that is specifically for gifted children and what they do and don't do, etc... it is appropriate in my opinion. I think that in our culture if anyone claims anything other than being "middle class, middle of the road politically, middle of the bell curve grades/brain wise" there will be a mob of people clammoring to hammer down that social misfit of a nail into the accepted norm. For instance, when the business that I started years ago took off and did fabulously well, my mother (not known for her intellectual genius) took me aside and very seriously told me NOT TO TELL ANYONE "b/c they won't like you and you will never get married or have children". I scoffed at her a bit, but also took her advice, b/c she really knew what she was talking about! And, oh dear, now that I had gifted kids, she said the same thing to me, don't tell anyone! People are jealous by nature sometimes and they can make someone's good fortune be a torture stake by their jealousy and nastiness. We don't do that here on this thread and it is very nice! Please, everyone keep sharing your details b/c it is the only way for me to understand what having gifted children is all about, in lots of different viewpoints and writing styles, which I like.

[LeftField]

Originally Posted by ChristaN

I hope that I can say that without appearing to be a whiner. If I post that I worry about dd being depressed on the other boards here, I am prone to getting comments about her diet being the cause and I am tired of defending our lifestyle choices (I'm vegan and the kids are vegetarian). I am pretty confident that I understand what is going on with dd and I am pretty sure that I am not doing anything to cause it. I just want to be able to commiserate with people who understand periodicially.

Christa, I totally understand that. There's a bigger RL picture going on with each of our kids (and everyone's kids) that cannot be seen in an Internet snap-shot. Even IRL, it's often hard for people to see that bigger picture, because people don't know our kids in the depth and breadth that we do as their parents. Again, this is true of all kids. So, I don't see what's wrong about seeking out others with similar backgrounds.

There's that whole argument that goes something like, "Why label them as toddlers when they might end up dropping out of school and working at Walmart?" No one has actually said that, but that's the gist of the argument: why do you care now when it may not 'pay off' down the road? And the thing is, I'm not looking down the road for a pay-off. I'm looking at my child *now* with the issues he has *now* to help him navigate life *now*. If he is out-performed in college by non-gifted kids or he works at Walmart, it doesn't negate the utility of having support now. Because who here is looking for a pay-off? The assumption is that we label and therefore set those long-term expectations of success. I don't even care if my kids go to trade school vs university, as long as they're happy. My only involvement with the gifted label is to help my kids right now, because the issues and challenges are fitting right now.

[LeftField]

Originally Posted by BoyGirlTwinsAPMama

No one can be friends with everyone and I think that people who are too too self-centered will probably not get anything from this thread b/c it is not about them and their child specifically and thus they might not be interested in anyone else's experiences. But for me, it is VERY helpful in my daily life and planning my children's future and sometimes just to vent about the frustrations of having very intellectually capable children and sometimes, OH YES, to BRAG about how wonderful my kids are (I am their mother and as such, I am allowed to think they are the best children in the world, it is their birthright).

I have said on multiple occasions that I don't think my oldest is as gifted as many of the kids here and that I'm not sure if my youngest is highly gifted at all. I still get a lot out of this thread. And I still enjoy reading about other people's kids. And I'm certainly not threatened by the child that, for example, is reading in the preschool years when mine is not. I think it's pretty cool, actually.

I guess I'm not really seeing one-upmanship. I'm seeing people sharing experiences and sharing about their wonderful children. Those children are very diverse in interest and ability. It's comforting to be able to share and to read what others share and for it to not degrade into comparisons, jealousy or defensiveness. I have zero hard feelings when I read about children who seem more gifted than mine. I'm not going to accuse anyone of thinking about it too much or talking about their kids too much. I've been on the receiving end of that, so you won't hear any of it from me. I'm genuinely happy for their accomplishments and I feel for their challenges.

[TEAK's Mom]

Leftfield, you are exactly right. The point of communicating with other parents of gifted kids is not to determine which one is the smartest or who will be the richest. The two don't have a connection anyway. TEAK is not the most gifted child here, but she does have needs that are different from others her age. I'm not sure yet about ABKA (my youngest) yet. She is very bright, but so far, less intense. It's nice to gain some perspective.

[mamaverdi]

Have a lot of catching up to do but wanted to jump in with this:

Originally Posted by eilonwy

Once again, though, I'd like to point out the importance of diet. We recently ran out of the Herbal Iron supplement that I bought over the summer, and I haven't been able to afford more.

Have you considered using blackstrap molasses? It's cheap, and pretty effective. You put about 1 T. in 1 cup warm water. My son calls it kid's coffee...

mv

[BoyGirlTwinsAPMama]

Toys For 2 Yo's

My 2 yo's play with their dinosaurs a lot, a natural wooden play kitchen that looks like the real thing with a set of children's stainless steel pots and baking child size I got at Costco and also saw similar at Pottery Barn, Montessori toys I bought on Ebay from AlisonsMontessori, the knobbed cylinders are super fantastic, they love the Fractions Skillet, Nuts and Bolts thingy, Sandpaper Letters, World Puzzle, Pink Tower, Number Rods and a bunch of others too that I rotate being out. They also love duplos and Brio wooden trains (I liked them better than Thomas stuff which I find too commercial for my taste), my ds loves a big firetruck and his big dumptruck (it's big enough for him to sit on and ride around but not meant for that), Little Tikes Kiddie Car, Little tikes Rollercoaster and Little Tikes playhouse (it's a plastic child-sized Wendy house), and books and musical intruments like Recorders, wood/leather real Tambourines, Moroccas (sp?), Xylophone (my dh just splurged and bought them a real Honor Orff Xylophone, wow the sound is gorgeous, but they liked the Little Tikes ones we have too that I got for $5 on ebay), they also love their Old MacDonald singing stuffed Ernie and their 2 sort of lifelike babydolls and ESPECIALLY like their doll strollers (bought for $2 at our school fair). They also like playing tennis and they have the Andre Agassi child sized tennis rackets and Wilson Tennis balls super sized and regular sized and tiny sized tennis balls to play with. They also like art supplies, all kinds, and to be able to sift flour into a big bowl and to pour water with childsize pitchers into childsize glasses (lots of Waldorf type stuff they LOVE), anything made by Haba, the german toy manufacturer they love to play with too and that line has a great kitchen foodstuffs line they like. They also love to have their childsized kitchen table and chairs, natural wood, no paint (Waldorf-y again) with the stuff to serve pretend breakfast on it. OK, that's enough. but they like other stuff we have for them too, but this is the top list they play with daily.
And I forgot BARBIES AND KENS. I LOVE THEM AND SO DO MY KIDS AND I HOPE MY DD GROWS UP LOOKING JUST LIKE HER BARBIES BUT W/ BIGGER FEET. but she's already more beautiful than barbie and my ds is way more handsome than ken and smarter too.
sorry for weird caps, dd woke up and is in my arms, can't type so good with 1 hand.

OUTDOOR TOYS: I got a shovel at Home Depot meant for the trunk of your car, but it is an exact scaled down replica of an adult sized shovel sized perfectly for children, with the D handle and everything, they love that outside, and hand shovels too and small watering cans that they can fill up and carry around and "water" stuff like the patio and create mudpuddles to jump into too. My ds also loves bugs and he has a special very large (about 18" diameter) flower pot filled with dirt and an old dead stick of a plant to dig into and put dirt in and out of on our patio. All that would make a really nice gift, the pot with the shovels and watering can and we got childsized gloves from Target too but only dd wears them). And they like rocks, all sizes so we keep a collection of outdoor rocks and also indoor rocks that we got from the beach and also bought a few of those shiny multi-colored rocks from places like the Science Museum you could get them, but we got them on a trip to Arizona in a tourist shop last winter and he loves those.

[Charles Baudelaire]

[QUOTE=eilonwy]CB-- I've been meaning to ask: how is Lou doing with her perfectionism issues? How are you guys coping these days? ]

Oh, thanks for asking, Rynna -- We had a meltdown this morning because she felt "stupid" for making a mistake. I've repeated to her like it's catechism that story about Thomas Edison and the hundreds (or thousands) of failed filaments for the lightbulb that he regarded as hundreds (or thousands) of new things he didn't know before and now did, and it kind've helps. Still, the reaction is SO out of bounds when it happens -- and she'd been much better with it lately. I do want her to learn how to deal with the occasional frustration and wrong answers that we all have to learn how to deal with and work through, especially because she acquires knowledge so easily, KWIM? At the same time, my heart bleeds for her when she "feels stupid," because hey -- I've certainly been there. My guess is that learning, for her, is kind've like climbing mesas in New Mexico -- a big, taxing vertical push and then a loooong plateau. Thanks so much for asking!

[BoyGirlTwinsAPMama]

For IRON my kids love organic spinach spaghetti, Westbrae brand. It has tons of iron in it and they love eating it and its really cheap and non-constipating compared to supplements. I cook it like regular pasta and saute diced onions/carrots and peas and some heavy cream or just butter on it with parmesan cheese and they love it.

My dh loves blackstrap molasses, mamaverdi. My dd will lick it off of his breakfast toast when given the chance (which of course we encourage since we want her to get more iron, her nails are sort of wavy from lack of iron I think, she won't eat meat other than chicken nuggets).

[mamaverdi]

Oh puuulllleeeeeeease. What is with people? I mean, get a grip on the real world. The "other" thread and then the comments here from Jenn. Whatever. I've got more to do in my life than care if you think I'm bragging, sharing too much, pushing my child, or whatever other fantasy you have cooked up from the 20 SECONDS I have shared with you about my life.

So anyway...

I've been sick all weekend, but the test for Little Bear went really well. We got a great doc. Smart, caring, geez, she was probably a gifted kid. Hmph. Anyway sorry... so then my 5 year old came hold with some nasty cold. We all caught it except (knock on wood) Little Bear. Tomorrow I hear the Speech Therapist tell me she didn't think he was aspirating...Uh, guess what, I've been telling her he is, but um, I couldn't possibly be right. :

I would have to attest to the idea that parents are right about gifted kids as they are about kids with delays. I have one of each. I don't know which is more exhausting.

"Gifted" I remember reading in Old English Lit or something like that about the Norweigian (was it?) idea of gifts: gifts are a two way street. The one who is gifted (given a gift, receives/accepts the gift) has a obligation to the giver. The one who gives the gift also has an obligation to the gifted. Both are obligated to each other. I thought it was very interesting because before that I had only thought of gifts as "hey it's nice to get presents." I was much more into existential angst as a teen.

Can't even remember what else it is I want to post about.... too irritated by the lurkers and their commentaries.

mv

[BoyGirlTwinsAPMama]

I ordered the Muzzy German! I'm so excited for it to come. Thanks eternal grace for the suggestion, or was it someone else?

Can I ask about Math? I have heard some of you talk about Singapore Math and Mequon Math. My dd is into numbers a lot, she's 2. Any suggestions?? I have the Montessori stuff already, should I get something else too? She doesn't do functions yet, but I don't know if it's b/c we haven't shown her any or if she's not ready yet. How do I find out which it is other than ordering some Math and proceeding if she likes it? My father was a math genius and so is my dh, dd's father. I am just sort of assuming she is going to be a math wiz and don't want to hold her back if that's her thing, kwim?

[mamaverdi]

Originally Posted by Charles Baudelaire

At the same time, my heart bleeds for her when she "feels stupid," because hey -- I've certainly been there. My guess is that learning, for her, is kind've like climbing mesas in New Mexico -- a big, taxing vertical push and then a loooong plateau. Thanks so much for asking!

CB, bless you for caring! (ETA: not that you aren't going to care about your own child, just... well read on....) My dh STILL has this problem. If someone would have just cared that he was different, that he could leap up on top of that mesa and then was a little scared about going back over the other edge...well, he'd be a little more emotionally well-adjusted than he is now WRT mistake-making. As it is, his parents' attitude that "everyone has gifts" made it so that he became very internally competitive and his talents either wasted or turned on himself.

He once said that he used to try to get the highest grade in the class by one point. He would intentionally miss answers that he knew others would be missing, but answer just enough correctly so that he would "win" the test. He was still doing that in undergraduate---and guess what, he was really good at getting exactly 1 point higher than the other highest score. Weird.

Oh, that was a diversion.

I just wanted to say that your dc's future spouse, should they choose to have one, thanks you.

mv

[mamaverdi]

Originally Posted by BoyGirlTwinsAPMama

My dh loves blackstrap molasses, mamaverdi. My dd will lick it off of his breakfast toast when given the chance (which of course we encourage since we want her to get more iron, her nails are sort of wavy from lack of iron I think, she won't eat meat other than chicken nuggets).

If I ate blackstrap molasses straight it would make me do this:


I don't think meat is the most bioavailable form of iron. I'm not veg'n; I just don't see it that way. Breastmilk is first. Then other foods, mostly veg'n. Otherwise where would other animals get their iron.

There should be a list around here somewhere, if not I can find it, of good iron foods that should be pretty toddler/young child friendly. Dried apricots is one. You can make them into a bar dessert which is pretty good.

Oh, and you can boil some dandelion root and yellow dock root in water, make a (what's it called?) deduction, and then add it to the blackstrap molasses for even more iron. If I can find my book around here, I can look that up too if you (or anyone else is) are interested.

mv

[BoyGirlTwinsAPMama]

thank u mv! very interested in iron, my dd is so lacto-ovo and i haven't found many ways to get iron into her.

[mamaverdi]

So is my oldest son! By choice. Since he was um, a fetus, maybe an embryo.

I will look it up. PM me if I forget...

[Girl Named Sandoz]

I ordered the Muzzy German! I'm so excited for it to come. Thanks eternal grace for the suggestion, or was it someone else?

Can I ask about Math? I have heard some of you talk about Singapore Math and Mequon Math. My dd is into numbers a lot, she's 2. Any suggestions?? I have the Montessori stuff already, should I get something else too? She doesn't do functions yet, but I don't know if it's b/c we haven't shown her any or if she's not ready yet. How do I find out which it is other than ordering some Math and proceeding if she likes it? My father was a math genius and so is my dh, dd's father. I am just sort of assuming she is going to be a math wiz and don't want to hold her back if that's her thing, kwim?

Yes, that was me talking about Muzzy. I ordered the French one last week, it's not here yet but I can't wait. We even hooked the TV back up just so we can watch the DVDs when they arrive. DS is growing up bilingual in German and English, and it's fascinating to see how fast and easily they learn languages at this age. So, we figured we'll add one more language while he's very young and see how it goes. Most people the world over grow up bi- and trilingually, and there are many benefits to being multi-lingual.

We are doing the first series of Singapore maths at the moment. Ds likes it but he is in a phase where he doesn't like to sit down for long. We just moved and the transition has been hard for him (he doesn't like change at all) so we are taking it easy at the moment. He is really into learning to read though right now (we have the Engelman book -- Teach Your Child To Read in 100 Easy Lessons). Anyway, the Singapore math books are great, very visual. There are sample pages on their website which you could print out and see if your dd likes them. HTH.

[loraxc]

Have your kids tested low in iron, then? I just ask because we are all lacto-ovo veg, but DD's iron is great. She does eat a fair bit of egg (maybe 3/week) and a lot of beans, but hardly any green vegetables and no molasses or apricots or anything.

I am so coveting a lot of that MOntessori stuff you have, BoyGirlTwins!

[SunRayeMomi]

Originally Posted by TEAK's Mom

Leftfield, you are exactly right. The point of communicating with other parents of gifted kids is not to determine which one is the smartest or who will be the richest. The two don't have a connection anyway. TEAK is not the most gifted child here, but she does have needs that are different from others her age. I'm not sure yet about ABKA (my youngest) yet. She is very bright, but so far, less intense. It's nice to gain some perspective.

Right. I think all of us here are on the same page as we except each-other's children as all being bright and challenging and blessings and exhausting and rewarding all at once. We aren't intimidated by eachother in the sense that maybe *GASP* another child is more intellectual or "gifted" than our's (*gasp again*).
That's because, and I don't want to speak for anyone else here, but I for one am very secure in my daughter's capabilities. I don't worry about her comparitively because she is unique (as are all kids) and I find her to truly be a blessing in every sense of the word. I don't feel intimidated by other people's children.
I have seen other people be intimidated by her, though. And that, IMHO, is an awful thing to feel. It's almost as if you are ashamed of your own for being any less bright (or insert adjective here _____) than another child.
We don't compare kids at all on this thread. In fact, all we've been doing here is celebrating the acheivements of each-other's children. And that's a pretty cool thing if you ask me.

[mamaverdi]

Originally Posted by loraxc

Have your kids tested low in iron, then? I just ask because we are all lacto-ovo veg, but DD's iron is great. She does eat a fair bit of egg (maybe 3/week) and a lot of beans, but hardly any green vegetables and no molasses or apricots or anything.

I think BGTwins and Rynna were talking about problems they have with low iron in their children---noting different physical/emotional factors of iron deficiency.

My own l-o veg ds was fairly allergic to MANY foods including anything poultry for about 2 years. And he had that pale look I associate in myself with low iron. I also have trouble maintaining any reasonable amount of iron except when supplementing.

I wish I were veg again... sigh maybe some day.

mv

[oldcrunchymom]

Baudelaire, I forgot to tell you. Hollis has become more forgiving of himself in the past couple months. He doesn't totally freak out now if he makes a mistake. Maybe that won't be much of a comfort to you seeing as how he's almost 10 but I wanted to let you know anyway. It DOES get better... eventually!