Addressing the Special Needs of Gifted Children, #6 - Page 39

[ChristaN]

This thread has been quiet, but I wanted to pop in with a question for you mamas.

My younger dd (kindergartener) has a little boy in her class who is very, very bright. I volunteer in the classroom during centers reading time and he leaves to go work with another teacher b/c he is reading 5th grade books (according to the TA in the class). He then returns toward the end of centers and does whatever he has time for. He tends to finish up really quickly b/c the work is pretty easy (like last week they were supposed to go around the room and write down 20 words that they saw on things like books, water bottles, the walls, etc.)

So anyway, last week, he finished and was wandering around looking unhappy and kept asking me what he could do now. I asked if he was bored and he said, "yes!" Really all I had for him was to play with math manipulatives or to help the other kids. He didn't really want to do that. He's also very mature for a kindergartener and I keep finding myself thinking that, if he were my kid, I'd be wanting to skip him right into 2nd grade next year.

I saw the mom after school a few days later and mentioned how bright her son was to her thinking that maybe we could have a conversation about how he might be better served in the school and grade acceleration since I'm thinking of trying to fight that fight for my older dd later and I know it will be a fight at this school. The mom tells me that they held him out a year (he could have started kg the year before -- he's 13 months older than my kindergartener who is in his class) and how pleased she is that he's at the top of the class and that's why they waited to start him so that he would be there. Now, this kid would be at the top of a first grade class academically, too and I really feel bad for him b/c he really doesn't belong in kindergarten.

To my question -- do I just drop it and say nothing further? I feel bad for this kid and truly believe that they are doing him a disservice by holding him back with a group of younger kids when he is so obviously ready to be elsewhere and so bored much of the time.

[eilonwy]

Originally Posted by ChristaN

I saw the mom after school a few days later and mentioned how bright her son was to her thinking that maybe we could have a conversation about how he might be better served in the school and grade acceleration since I'm thinking of trying to fight that fight for my older dd later and I know it will be a fight at this school. The mom tells me that they held him out a year (he could have started kg the year before -- he's 13 months older than my kindergartener who is in his class) and how pleased she is that he's at the top of the class and that's why they waited to start him so that he would be there. Now, this kid would be at the top of a first grade class academically, too and I really feel bad for him b/c he really doesn't belong in kindergarten.

To my question -- do I just drop it and say nothing further? I feel bad for this kid and truly believe that they are doing him a disservice by holding him back with a group of younger kids when he is so obviously ready to be elsewhere and so bored much of the time.

How sad for that little guy!

I would talk to the mother about the difference between being at the top of his class and being gifted, because it sounds to me like she really doesn't know. I'm curious as to what she expects to accomplish by holding him back, and what she thinks the kids are supposed to be capable of at the end of the year. Maybe she doesn't think that her son is that extraordinary, and that's why she held him back? I'm trying to wrap my head around it, but I think I'd really need to know where she's coming from. It's possible that she doesn't realize that he would "be at the top of his class" in first grade right now, too, or that he could possibly "be at the top of his class" in second grade this year. If she's one of those people who believes that having a bright child is simply a matter of having a child who knows more stuff, she may believe that she's doing right by him to keep him in a class full of kids who know less and are less emotionally mature.

I'm with you, though, I'm really bummed for the kid.

[Emeline]

Originally Posted by eilonwy

I was just wondering if the Christian/not Jewish mammas here "do" Santa with their kids. I've been reading over some of the Santa threads, but I don't think that it would be right of me to post because a) we're Jewish and b) I've got a kid who looked at the Snoopy walking around the Mall of America and said "Um, mom, Snoopy is not a dog, that's a guy in a suit!" and looked at me like I was crazy.

We're Christian and we celebrate with a tree and presents and all that, but we don't "do" Santa Clause.

There are various reasons, the biggest for us being that we like to keep the focus of Christmas on the celebration of the birth of Christ. I realize Christmas is purely symbolic, and the Christians of years ago would bawlk at even the most humble of celebrations and would probably be shocked if they saw the commercialized circus the celebration of Christ's birth has become. It's tough nowadays to do both, Santa seems to have taken over and many people think we're nuts when we tell them. They say things like "You CAN'T have Christmas without Santa Clause!". Well, of course we can.

It's difficult to sheild a child however, and I don't intend to. When we explained to ds that Santa Clause was just a story and not real he kind of looked at us like "Duh?". Another reason we don't do Santa Clause is the fact that I'm just not comfortable lying to my child. Christmas to a child is sooo magical, and much of that magic stems from Santa Clause. When they find out the truth it just seems to take the magic of Christmas away. I want ds's joy of Christmas to stem from things that will only grow as he does, things like family, spending time together, giving presents, having our candlelight Christmas Eve service at church, ect.... Like I said, we're Christian, and we've tried to teach our ds about the Lord as best we can. However, we're telling him that God exsists, but you have to believe in him even though you can't see him, that's what faith is. We do the same thing with Santa Clause. We spin a tale and perpetuate it by taking bites out the cookies left for him on Christmas Eve or leaving boot prints by the fireplace. Eventhough most parents would not lie to their child, in this case parents will do almost anything to keep their child's faith in Santa Clause alive. Then one day, it happens, the child comes to the realization that not only is there no Santa Clause, their parents lied to them, made them believe in something that just wasn't true. For what? To use as a threat for a couple of months of good behavior? They may start to wonder what else we've lie about. Hey, what about God? They told me he's real, but they told me the same thing about Santa, could that be a lie too?

This is turning into a rant, sorry, I've been catching heck the last few weeks from various sources.

Emeline

[teachma]

Originally Posted by Emeline

When we explained to ds that Santa Clause was just a story and not real he kind of looked at us like "Duh?".

See, I've always wondered how many kids are out there maintaining their belief in Santa (and his cronies, the Tooth Fairy, etc.) for the sake of their parents, who expect them to believe and might be heartbroken to learn that their little children no longer believe. In various conversations w/ ds over the years, whenever I've disclosed that something is imaginary, he's always given me that "duh!" kind of expression...like he obviously knew it already, for a long time. Kids (not just gifted ones) are smarter than adults often give them credit for being. I feel like many of them pretend the whole thing to keep their moms and dads happy.

[eilonwy]

Originally Posted by teachma

See, I've always wondered how many kids are out there maintaining their belief in Santa (and his cronies, the Tooth Fairy, etc.) for the sake of their parents, who expect them to believe and might be heartbroken to learn that their little children no longer believe. In various conversations w/ ds over the years, whenever I've disclosed that something is imaginary, he's always given me that "duh!" kind of expression...like he obviously knew it already, for a long time. Kids (not just gifted ones) are smarter than adults often give them credit for being. I feel like many of them pretend the whole thing to keep their moms and dads happy.

: That's my son. He always kind of winks conspiratorially, and gets really into the game of Let's Pretend. As long as you're not trying to pass it off as truth, BeanBean will jump right in and play along. of course, he can also spend hours and hours pretending to be a helicopter or an airplane. "I'm a supersonic helicoptor. BooBah is a supersonic airplane. You're just a regular airplane. We're going to fly away from you now, but it's okay; We'll come back, every time."

I can't pretend to BeanBean that I believe; he's sweet and caring, and can be very empathic. Besides I want him to believe the important things. If I pretend to be upset that he doesn't believe in something like the tooth fairy, how is he going to accept that I'm *really* upset when he pinches my nipple (or whatever)?

[teachma]

Originally Posted by eilonwy

I can't pretend to BeanBean that I believe; he's sweet and caring, and can be very empathic.

See, and my ds is very sensitive and emotional...moreover, he is 100% total honesty incarnate. As in, he is so in touch with his true feelings, for better or worse, that he cannot even "lie" by saying, "Nice to see you, too," when we encounter a neighbor at Wild Oats if, in fact, he DOESN'T think it's nice to see her. Or by saying, "Thank you," when he isn't feeling particularly thankful. I think he expects this excruciating level of honesty from everyone, and as his mom, I sure ain't gonna be the one to betray that! (Though I know plenty others will.)

[allgirls]

temper tantrums and developmental leaps

This is my problem of the day. Sophia is now 29mos old. She is a kid that seems to go along and then suddenly "leap" into a new stage. She doesn't develop gradually over time..well maybe she does but it appears to be a giant leap rather than a bunch of steps over time.

Anyway...lately she has been quite a handful...yelling, screaming, tantrums, hitting me, hitting baby(yeah we have a new baby in the house but I don't think that's the entire problem), just being downright difficult to live with. And it's really hard for me..if things aren't "just right" she screams. I think she's trying to control things around her and feels out of control. I was thinking this was because of the baby at first. It's been happening for about 3 weeks...baby will be 7 weeks tomorrow, but now I am thinking it's actually partly an internal thing.

Suddenly she has had a huge increase in her vocabulary. I am noticing her using bigger words, longer,more complicated sentences...well it's sudden and it's obvious. She can express herself really really well...but along with this the temper tantrums, acting out is also increasing.

Do you think it's related? Do you think a sudden larger understanding of the world and language is developing and is scaring her(she scares easily) and that she is maintaining or trying to maintain control?

Since she is very verbal you would think that obviously she is not frustrated by an inability to communicate...but maybe she is. Maybe she still "knows" a lot more than she is able to express. She can't write yet, or type, she is mad at herself because she can't read, she thinks she should be able to. She is trying to sound out words herself...I think she will teach herself to read but I am going to encourage it(not push). I think she is realising there are all these things she can't do and she wants to be able to do them now! We can't show her anything, she has to do it herself. As a result she can dress herself and wash herself and put her shoes on the right feet etc. etc. perfectly.

I am writing all this down for feedback but also trying to figure it out. I want to help her. I am trying to understand her and be gentle and help her through but I do have 3 other kids.

Help me please. Any practical advice, tips, understanding of what's actually going on with her and how to get through it?

Do you think teaching her to read would help..she seems open to it. I bought her the BOB books for Christmas.

One thing I have done is turn the tv off...I was depending on it a bit too much after baby came...but it's gone now. Except for the occasional video of course.

[ChristaN]

Just some commiseration here . My older dd threw the most amazing tantrums that I have ever seen when she was your dd's age. They happened multiple times a day and lasted for an hour or more. She'd scream, hit the walls, yell "I'm going to pee on the floor!!" and then do it... I'd sometimes put her in her room when I was about ready to kill the kid just so I could calm down myself, but for the most part, I just tried to express her feelings for her and force hold her while she was struggling against me and screaming. She'd eventually calm down and melt into my arms, but I got beat up in the mean time.

I totally understand what you are saying about her being very verbal so it seems like she ought to be able to express her feelings/needs in words and not be so frustrated. It did seem, though, like my dd was overwhelmed by her very intense feelings and, although she could speak like a little adult, she was still unable to wrap her words around what she was feeling because it was so very intense. If it is any kind of a light at the end of the tunnel, the tantrums did stop by around her 4th birthday for the most part. (I know that's a long ways off -- sorry!)

[OTMomma]

Oh, Allgirls- I feel your pain. Those tempertantrums are awful! We went through a bad spell of them around the same age. One of the things that I found was a BIG issue for us was food, if my dd was hungry, low blood sugar, or had eaten something high in sugar or artificial crap, the least little thing would set her OFF! So I would take some time to look at her diet closely, in the craziness of having a new baby in the house, has her snack and meal schedule/quality been disturbed? Its easy to do.
I would also not discount the stress of the new baby in her life. Like ChristinaN said, she maybe able to express a lot more, but not everything she'd like to say. Being able to express complex feelings like "Mommy, I like my little sibling, but some times I feel Jealous and frustrated that we can't do all the same things we used to do." is hard. Heck, I know some adults that can't articulate their feelings that well. Helping her by saying those things for her and trying to give her attention during low stress activities, like stacking blocks together, may help.
Good luck!
Laura

[OTMomma]

Just curious- Are we going for the longest thread ever? Or should we start a new thread?

[mamaverdi]

We had a ton of tantrums with three things you mentioned: too much tv/movies (and thus not enough outdoor or other play), new baby (and a sick one at that), and NOT being able to read yet. Time, limited tv/movies, and teaching him to read really helped.

[allgirls]

Thanks for all the input...She's having a good morning.

All of the things mentioned contribute I am sure to the increase in her frustration but I think it's developmental as well...tossing books across the floor and yelling "I can't read it" is new though. I am still trying to read to her daily and if I cant' one of the older girls will but lately she will snatch the book out of our hands and read it herself..or try to. She will have a huge meltdown because she can't.

She was really bad last night because she got over-tired and then I couldn't get her to sleep...she had a full out meltdown for an hour...because we were in bed and she didn't want to sleep. But it was 12am...she was exhausted. This happened because baby woke up and wouldn't go back down...I was so busy getting her settled again I let Sophia go late.

Food has always been simple but if a meal is late or missed or even a snack she does get worse for sure. She was hungry last night...I gave her yogurt...bad mistake...had sugar. duh! What was I thinking..of course that set her off

I am trying to be a bit more mindful today...watch her food and purposely try to get her to nap..she doesn't nap much anymore though she did yesterday. When she naps we can't hope to get her to bed before 10pm but usually that's a good time for her.

She also gets a good 12 hrs at night.

But she was sleeping 14 hrs at night..so maybe she needs a nap again on the days she only gets 12 hrs at night. I never thought of that.

Anyway...thanks for the input. I think sitting and letting her read those simple BOB books will help her somewhat.

PLus more mama time is always good.

[courtenay_e]

Originally Posted by CAmomto1

I introduced myself on the last thread, but here I am again...

Question - has anyone here had to negotiate with their child's school for advancement in one subject while staying with their age-mates the rest of the day? DD has strengths in math, and is doing at least first grade level math, possibly second grade, depending on whose scope and sequence you look at. She'll be in a K class at a private school this fall, and they use Math Their Way. This curriculum is SO not what DD needs in order to move forward and be challenged. In talking with her future teacher last spring, she assured me that DD would be appropriately challenged, not to worry. (The issue of reading came up as well, as DD can read, too.) Her teacher seemed sincere, but I can't help but wonder if she figured I was just one of 'those' parents who thinks their child is brighter than everyone else's.

Honestly, if I had my way she'd be in a first grade class from the start, but last spring they didn't have any spots, so we accepted the K spot with our fingers crossed that we'd be able to work something out. Now I'm wondering if we've made a big mistake. I love the school in general, from what I've seen and heard about it, and I know that emotionally and socially it's likely a wonderful place for DD to be. But I can't help but also worry about her academic experiences.

Any advice? Do I wait a week, a month, into the year before registering concerns? I'm a worrier by nature and I know this is going to weigh heavily on my mind.

I'd planned on hs'ing, but right now school seems like a better choicce overall for DD. I hope it is - we're giving it a year to see how it goes.

Anyway, I'm rambling. TIA for any help or support.

Okay. THis is coming from a mom who WAS a gifted child, who has gifted kids. I would hope you would insist on evaluation immediately, and then placement in classes which reflect the level at which your child performs. It is so common for children to become "underacheivers" when they are bored and frustrated! And if they are blundering through stuff which she knew at least a year ago, she'll get bored and frustrated! She could end up hating school, and your one year run would be a waste! On the other hand, if she's challenged, it could be a totally different story. And here's a small hint. If they refuse to evaluate and place her according to her abilities, they are NOT a good emotional environment for her. Good luck!

[Emeline]

I realized that aside from my Santa Clause rant, I never formally introduced myself. I'm mom to two wonderful children ds, just turned 4 and dd, newly 3 months old. I came across your board doing some research on giftedness because it is becoming more and more clear that ds may be gifted. He could just be really bright, but I thought I'd subscribe anyway. You'll have to forgive me as I have not read through this whole thread, so I'm not sure we fit here or not.

I won't go into boring details, but here are some things that have stuck out about our son the last few years:

*rolled over at 1 month, crawled at 3.5 months, walked at almost 6 months and ran by 7 months

*spoke his first word at 1 month old, had a vocabulary of over 50 words by 5 months, was stringing words together by 6 months and spoke in full sentences by 1 year

*always just had a greater sense of awareness and understanding than other babies

*hit all the milestones early, knew the alphabet and could count to 20 by 11 months, had figured out how to count backwards by 15 months and started saying the ABC's backwards around then too

*could read many words at 12 months, could read almost anything by 18 months. Was reading chapter books by 24 months, his first being "The Magic Treehouse" series. He finished those by 2.5 years old and polished off Stuart Little, Charlotte's Web and the The Mouse and the Motorcycle by 3. He's currently devouring the Chronicles of Narnia series and loving them

*He understood complex math concepts like addition, subtraction, multiplication, division and skip counting by 2.5 years

*Could do 100 piece puzzles by 18 months. Is now into those 3D ones of buildings and stuff

I don't want to bore you, that's our son in a nutshell though. I'm looking forward to meeting everyone here!

[TiredX2]

Originally Posted by OTMomma

Just curious- Are we going for the longest thread ever? Or should we start a new thread?

PLEASE start a new one.

I wish we could have more than one going at a time

[OTMomma]

DONE!

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...76#post4277376