The term 'Happy Holidays" - Page 3

[DaryLLL]

merebear--

I think people here are just asking for a little kindness, sensitivity, and common courtesy here.

You may not have realized people of other faiths are hurt when you say MC to them. You may not have seen them grit their teeth, when they smiled politely and said "same to you." That's OK, you are in the cultural majority and maybe you don't have a lot of Jews, Krishna Consciousness practitioners, or Muslims or pagans in your town, so it just never occured to you.

NM--

If you want to wish people not of your faith to have a nice warm holidayish feeling on YOUR holiday, well, why? I know where Jews are on xmas eve--the Chinese restaurant! Is that festive enough for you? Tell me, did you do anything special this Eid, this last day of Hannukah, or on Passover for that matter or any other holiday besides a xian one, lately?

Just asking you both to stop and think about a subject that may not have occured to you much before.

Thank you.

To the person who said her Japanese friends don't mind hearing MC, well, the Japanese are so polite, and wouldn't want to cause anyone else to lose face. Also, I have heard, all Japanese are born Shinto and die Buddhist, but can be any other religion they want in between! Similar to Greek pagans, who could honor Mithra in Jupiter's temple if they wanted to, and it was seen as perfectly normal.

[Oceanone]

I always take these things in the spirit in which they are intended. I don't focus on the "Christmas" part. I focus on the "someone is wishing me well, wishing me happiness" part. I doubt the person saying it to me means anything but that, and it doesn't bother me at all.

British Mum, I am from Australia, live in California and I too miss good old "Merry Christmas" being said in that happy, sincere, open and totally friendly way in which it is meant.

Edited to add. I don't really say it here in the US because I do try to be culturally sensitive. My husband accidentally said it the first year he was here and got his head bitten off for it. Major upbraiding. I think tolerance works both ways and some people miss the well-wisher's intended message.

[ekblad9]

Well, I know I'm Christian but I have to say that when people wish me a happy holiday, no matter what holiday or how they do it I am not offended. To me, Christmas is about the birth of Christ, I am aware of (and friends with) people who do not see it that way. That's fine with me. I'm fine with them. I guess I'm idealistic. I wish we could all be kinder and more understanding and accepting of eachother and our beliefs. This forum is for learning about and sharing one's spiritual beliefs. Perhaps we could try to learn more from eachother instead of trying to prove who's right and who's wrong. We all have our own truths. I hope we can share them in peace.

[sunmountain]

Who's being nasty? Name names, merebear, and quote, too.

And if I had to choose... I'd pick passive aggressive over up-front-nasty aggressiveness. That kind is just so ugly.

They are both ugly.

edited for spelling:

[Arduinna]

Edited because NM edited her post and now my post makes no sense.

[yoga]

I don't say "Merry Christmas" or "Happy Holidays". I don't know what all ppl celebrate, and, honestly, I don't care.

When ppl wish me a MC, I say "thank you" and/or smile. If someone asks me if I've done all my shopping, I'll say "yes". I think it's presumptuous, but not worth getting emotional about. After all, it's not about me. It's about them and what's going on with them. Because, if it were abt me, they'd ask questions w/out making assumptions first. Or they wouldn't say anything at all. I started to realize that when I was a Muslim.

I see no real difference when someone wishes me "happy holiday" around Christmas time. If they really want to say "merry christmas", they should. People need to stop caring so much how others will react to what they say. If ppl want to freak out on you, they will. Some ppl hate to even be smiled at. People like my dh and FIL don't like to be said "hello" to. (hell being low and all of that : )

Let's not live life in fear of ppl we don't even know.

[merebear]

No, sunmountain, I won't. I choose not to work that way. It feels pretty apparent to me that you are not actually interested in hashing this out so that we can come to some sort of understanding or peace.

DaryLLL, I appreciate the tone of your post in your remarks towards me. I disagree, though, that because I am in some sort of "cultural majority" (wow, that would be a great topic of conversation... how this is so not a Christian culture) that I am unaware of the different sensibilities of others.

I genuinely don't understand how someone who isn't Christian (and boy, does "Xian" offend me!) could be deeply offended by being wished a Merry Christmas. As a non-Jew I would not be offended by being wished a Happy Hanukkah. Indeed, I would be delighted to be included in their traditions.

Of course, it could be argued (politely, please) that it really doesn't matter if I understand or not, I should just recognize that an occasional stranger I bump into might be offended and temper my greetings accordingly to everyone I encounter. I am willing to risk the rare offense in order to be able to use the greeting that best matches my beliefs or that of my greet-ee. My reasoning is that I imagine that the majority of those I encounter can see the intent behind my Merry Christmas or Happy Hanukkah or Joyous Kwanzaa, etc... Those that can't have bigger issues than can be solved with the complete elimination of a specific greeting.

Arduinna, you said the following:

The issue is, some people would like to be left out of Xmas and the insensitivity of those don't respect that.
The sad looks and comments when someone hears that you don't celebrate. The pity expressed for the children of those that don't. As if anyone not celebrating is denying their child of the most magical experience of their lives. And I'm speaking from experience here. I've been on the recieving end of such comments.

I am really sorry that you've experienced that. I agree that it is completely unacceptable to be criticized for not celebrating a particular holiday. I definately respect those who opt out of Christmas. Yes, I feel saddened by it, but I would never say or even show by my expression anything but total acceptance of our differences. Heck, I wouldn't even mention our differences unless it was a mutually agreed upon topic of conversation. (Which isn't usually the case when dealing with a store clerk, for example) It seems to me, though, that an innocuous Merry Christmas is not worthy of offense, whereas challenging your beliefs is very offense worthy.

Chaka, that's a new one to me! Hell being low? Huh? What does that mean? Goodness gracious, now we can't even say Hello?? LOL.

[sunmountain]

The sad looks and comments when someone hears that you don't celebrate. The pity expressed for the children of those that don't. As if anyone not celebrating is denying their child of the most magical experience of their lives. And I'm speaking from experience here. I've been on the recieving end of such comments.

Me, too. And they sting.

merebear, I asked you to name names because it's not fair to say "some people".

And I'm still here, hashing. What part of my post did I say that I was unwilling to come to some sort of understanding?

[JessicaS]

Deep calming breaths..deep calming breaths..

[yoga]

Why bother being offended by that? It isn't going to change anything, and if the person who uses xmas and the like doesn't stop using it, what good has being offended been?

What I'm trying to say is: What good is coming from feeling offended b/c someone chooses to express themself a certain way. You are not harmed b/c of it. You may claim that your sensitivities are harmed, but isn't that a choice? Why choose harm?

~Chaka, who's feeling a bit mellow

[merebear]

Hey, sunmountain. Now I see where you're coming from in asking me to name names. It's just that I think that's counter-productive because it turns into attacks, counter attacks, taking sides, hurt feelings, etc... I think it's fair to say "some people" because I meant that I had a general sense of being attacked rather than genuinely listened to or having points made to me respectfully.

I'm glad you're still here, though! You're right that you didn't specifically say that you weren't willing to discuss this further. Again, it was the tone of your posts that made me think you were more interested in making the fur fly than coming to a genuine understanding. But I could be wrong... this impersonal medium of typed messages can make one's intentions get all distorted. (oh, please see my post about the Christmas cards over in TAO)

Nursing Mother, I know what you mean... my eyes bleed when I read xian or even xmas but I've never said anything because I don't expect posters to stop using it. But don't worry... I'm just as confused as you are. In fact, in my last post I typed the words, "I'm confused...." and then couldn't figure out what to say next! So I deleted it. LOL

[Britishmum]

Aaaaagh!

NM, you asked 'Umm...wonder where Britishmum went"

If you want the answer, just see what sort of day I've had on the toddlers forum, where I'm asking for help and advice with potty training my two year old!!

I didnt mean to stir up anything like this, I was genuinely interested in the history and reasoning behind the greeting 'Happy Holidays'. As I said, I don't say 'Merry Christmas' here anymore, since dh put me straight the first Christmas after we got married. :

In answer to the 'Happy' or 'Merry' Christmas, the Brits use both terms equally. But then, the majority of Brits are probably Church of England. There's a great quote about the good ole CofE, I can't recall it exactly, but it goes something like this:

"To be a member of the Church of England, a belief in God is not mandatory, and any outward profession of faith is considered to be in extremely bad taste".

Which is probably why we just say and hear the term 'Merry Christmas' without great thought or concern about its meaning.

If I'd known that this subject was such a hotbed, I'd never have opened my mouth. Sorry! (but I can never consider myself a thread killer again )

In great sincerity, I wish everybody a Happy Holiday, whatever their belief system. Please let's be kind to one another!

[sunmountain]

I have been arguing with Christians my whole life LOL! None of this is new to me

Here's the thing...can we all agree that this is a season not a specific holiday ? That we are all celebrating light, love, and goodwill? Ok, then. We live in a culture that celebrates diversity, and to wish everyone a "Merry Christmas" is to go against the very fabric of what our culture was made from. I like the more non-descript "Happy Holidays" because it is inclusive not assuming.

The OP came from a culture where the government actually formed it's own church to suit the morals and wishes of a ruler, IOW, the gov't can dictate religion to it's people. We do not mix church and state here. I find that our culture is tolerant of different cultures and religious practices precisely because we came from those who were escaping the very thing that the OP describes, an intolerant attitude toward different religions. I would pull my child out of any public school that taught them the Jesus story, that is MY responsibility, not the government's.

I guess I was just hoping that the Christians who were participating in this thread could come to understand that the season isn't about Christ's birth, their holiday is. The season is about being generous, being thankful and looking forward to the light and life which is imminent after a cold dark winter.

We all have one thing in common, to welcome the light into our lives. And if you want to call that light Jesus, right on sister! But I want to see it as a different manifestation, and I hope I can count on others to tolerate my beliefs, as well.

[sunmountain]

Originally posted by Britishmum
Sorry! (but I can never consider myself a thread killer again )

Nope, that's my title, and don't you forget it!

[Arduinna]

OMG, DaryLLL can I just say I love your new sig! well, I would being someone with an affinity for the Greek Pantheon.

[tara]

Hooo, boy, it's hot in here!!

Just want to say to Sunmountain and Darylll: I appreciate the work you're doing here! And, I wanted to respond to this from Merebear:

I genuinely don't understand how someone who isn't Christian (and boy, does "Xian" offend me!) could be deeply offended by being wished a Merry Christmas. As a non-Jew I would not be offended by being wished a Happy Hanukkah. Indeed, I would be delighted to be included in their traditions.

It's great that you wouldn't be offended by being wished a Happy Hanukkah. Imagine that you lived in a country that was predominantly Jewish, in which Jewish holidays were bank holidays and you had to use your vacation days to celebrate Christmas. Or weren't able to take time off to celebrate at all. Imagine that every store, every house, every everything was decorated to the gills for Jewish holidays and you had to hunt to find anything that reflected your beloved Christian holiday. And everywhere you went people were saying, "Happy Hanukkah!"...

Am I making any sense to you? This is what we mean about dominant culture. This is why you're never, ever going to get me to believe that there isn't a dominant Christian culture here (I'm remembering all the threads in Activism about the Christian origins of our government... Can't have it both ways.) And, as the dominant culture religiously, you don't have to do a darn thing to recognize and be respectful of those who don't worship like you do. But, it's a kind thing to do.

Finally, you have every right to say that "Xmas" and "Xian" offend you. Maybe it wouldn't do any good, as NM says (I guess Merebear said that basically as well). But, I for one would pay attention and comply, as I ask you to have sensitivity and respect towards me.

[merebear]

Tara, that is such a great post. I'd like to respond to it tomorrow when I have more time and more rest under my belt.


(Edited for decency's sake) ag

[yoga]

Don't blame me b/c you won't lay there and get dipped into!

[sunmountain]

yes, that was definately TMI, merebear

Oh, Chaka you are too much

tara, why couldn't you have come in with that two pages ago, or were you just having fun watching the rest of us struggle to get to the frreakin point?

[Clarity]

the only thing that confuses me is how Christ gets left out of Xtian and Xmas. I thought most people understood the abbreviation and pronounced it (Christ-tian and Christ-mas). (the whole chi, christ's cross, criss-cross thing,...not "ex". Ex-mas? I know there's probably other sensitivities I miss, so I try to type it out (though I frequently don't capitalize and that is NOT a political statement.).