Remember the thread about the article in Chicago Parent?

[Brina]

Another poster was asking for input on writing a response to an article in Chicago Parenting magazine. Overall the article was very balanced, and in fact, tipped a bit towards intactivism. There were however a few inacuracies.

I just picked up this monthes Chicago Parenting (it is a free monthly magazine). They printed exactly one letter regarding this article. And i think it was the one shared here. I thought for sure they were going to be deluged with letters spouting all the ridiculous mythes with which we are all so familiar - and perhaps they were. But, the magazine did not print a single letter in favor of circumcision. Only an intactivist letter.

[Lula's Mom]

That's great!
I have been wondering about something. I'm really impressed with the mamas on one of our other boards- the Breastfeeding Advocacy board. When an issue comes up, like anti-NIP statements by a celebrity, or someone attempts to pass a law that's anti-NIP, or a store gives away free formula with a purchase (against the WHO code!), or another mama gets told to leave a church/store/restaurant while nursing, these mamas mobilize. They show up to council meetings, they have nurse-ins, they call the media. For every incident, there are a dozen or more mamas who respond "I wrote a letter!" They are a force to be reckoned with, and I have seen how it works.

In this forum, though we all go all-out to educate friends and family, it doesn't seem like we have as much action on a public level. Someone will post something- TV, newspaper, magazine or radio story, website, etc., and ask for people to write anti-circ letters. A lot of times, it seems there aren't many responses to the post. Am I imagining it? Do the intactivist crowd mobilize as well as the lactivist crowd? Tell me what you think.

If we don't, let's start. I'm never going to let another story go by without writing a letter, even if it's just a short one.

[calngavinsmom]

Originally Posted by Lula's Mom

That's great!
I have been wondering about something. I'm really impressed with the mamas on one of our other boards- the Breastfeeding Advocacy board. When an issue comes up, like anti-NIP statements by a celebrity, or someone attempts to pass a law that's anti-NIP, or a store gives away free formula with a purchase (against the WHO code!), or another mama gets told to leave a church/store/restaurant while nursing, these mamas mobilize. They show up to council meetings, they have nurse-ins, they call the media. For every incident, there are a dozen or more mamas who respond "I wrote a letter!" They are a force to be reckoned with, and I have seen how it works.

In this forum, though we all go all-out to educate friends and family, it doesn't seem like we have as much action on a public level. Someone will post something- TV, newspaper, magazine or radio story, website, etc., and ask for people to write anti-circ letters. A lot of times, it seems there aren't many responses to the post. Am I imagining it? Do the intactivist crowd mobilize as well as the lactivist crowd? Tell me what you think.

If we don't, let's start. I'm never going to let another story go by without writing a letter, even if it's just a short one.

Yes, I have noticed that too. It really is too bad because there really are strenght in numbers and we all could be making much more of a difference with only a few short words........

Something to consider.

Take care,
Tara

[njeb]

Lula's Mom, you're right. I believe the intactivist community is younger and smaller than the bf community. For example, LLLI was started in 1956, but Nocirc was started in the early 80's. We aren't as organized as the lactivists, either. Of course, I'm pretty new to the intactivist community, so I still have a lot to learn about its history. Does anyone else know more about the intactivism movement's history?

[Frankly Speaking]

It was started by Marilyn Milos in the early 1980's after she was fired from her job as a nurse because she was advising parents on circumcision.

However, it didn't get much traction until the mid to late 1990's with the advent of the internet. Pretty much everything you see now is in the last 7 or 8 years. I remember when I first came here to MDC, this was a debate board instead of a support board and all of the old trash as aired here daily. I was one of the few that clearly spoke out against infant circumcision and was definitely in the minority. It was definitely disheartening to be on this side of this issue then. The odds seemed insurmountable.

As Njeb said above, LLL got it's start in 1956 and while breast feeding is not nearly the controversial topic that circumcision is, it has taken them decades to get to where they are now. Looking in retrospect, I am amazed at the progress we have made in such a short time. I remember when I first became aware of the movement, I was speaking with attorney David Llewellyn and it was pretty much the consensus that we would not live long enough to see the end of circumcision in America. Assuming I live to a normal life expectancy, I now have little doubt that I will live to see it happen.

Just about 20 years ago, Canada had a circumcision rate comparable to that in the US today and now, it is down to about 10%. They did this mostly without the benefit of the internet. I suspect with this marvelous communication media to work with and work through, we will see the rates tumble much quicker.




Frank

[Super Pickle]

Thanks for postig this Brina! And thanks to everyone who helped me fine tune that letter.
I haven't seen the new issue yet, but a wonderful, dear woman whom I admire very much but hardly ever see called me today to thank me for writing it. She was so overwhelmed and glad to see it, becasue she had been feeling very alone in her decision not to circ and had even been wondering if she was a bad mom for it! (She didn't know much about the counter arguments; she had just declined circ at her ex-husband's request but had doubted herself constantly because of all the social pressures). Anyway, I had a chance to reassure her that she had done the right thing and that she was not alone! I got to quote Paul Fleiss, "Probably the only problem your intact son will ever have is that someone will think he has a problem."

[njeb]

Actually, Frank, breastfeeding WAS controversial back in 1956. Back then, formula feeding was considered the new, scientific way to feed your baby, and bf was considered old-fashioned and primitive. Most doctors and mothers actually thought that formula was better for babies than breastmilk! : LLL was thought of as a bunch of radical fringe fanatics, just as intactivists are today. I agree with you, however, that the intactivist movement is moving ahead much faster with its cause than LLL did, thanks to the internet. I'm amazed at the progress we've made!
Both movements, however, still have a long way to go. They also have that in common.

[Quirky]

Originally Posted by njeb

Both movements, however, still have a long way to go. They also have that in common.

Yep, that's so true. If you think the circ industry is well-funded and driven by money, it pales in comparison to the artificial baby milk industry. At least you don't see parenting magazines full of ads promoting circ - but pick up any parenting mag except Mothering and it will be full of ABM ads. Same for TV directed at parents/parents to be. Billions of dollars spent touting the "new and improved" ABM "developing your baby's brain just like breastmilk!" :

The AAP and the Dept. of Health and Human Services are also in the pockets of the ABM makers, who lobby at the top levels and give the big bucks. Oh, not to mention the Dept. of Ag, which promotes FF through the WIC program. Because of the ABM industry, the big public interest campaign promoting bf was watered down and much of the most powerful language about the risks of FF taken out "because we don't want FF moms to feel guilty." :

The other thing about the ABM industry is, it's huge overseas as well as in the US. Literally millions of babies every year grow sick and often die as a direct result of the advertising/promotion of ABM as the "modern, hygienic" way to feed your babies. More than 700 babies die every year in this country alone as a direct result of not being breastfed.

I think the medical community is also hugely to blame in both circ and FF for promoting the idea that circ is the same as intact and ABM is as good as breastmilk, and that both are a parent's choice that a healthcare provider shouldn't weigh in on.

[AntoninBeGonin]

Originally Posted by Lula's Mom

I'm never going to let another story go by without writing a letter, even if it's just a short one.

Ditto!!

~Nay

[TigerTail]

hmmmn?

when was it a debate board with a minority of intactivists?

in yr 2000, it was definately more outspoken re: religious circs, & we certainly had our fair share of trolls (as we do now), but other than yammer getting edited off for speaking about his anger regarding being circ'd, i don't think there was at all a bias toward circ'ing.

reading mothering in the mid-eighties, i know it was a supportive place that reinforced opinions i'd always held. our activism may have been low-key (sometimes on the level of 'hey, why'd they do that to your penis?' to guys who had never even considered their loss- call me crass, but one never knows who you'll make an inactivist of- i have had spectacular results, lol), but it was there, & registering, for anyone thoughtful enough to look.

but of course god bless the internet, where we can make sure EVERYONE knows they don't have to circ, & why it is not a good idea!

susan