Women and the Medical Industry - Page 9

[applejuice]

I was not born with a speculum or an owners manual.

Do you think I went outside, raised my arms and the speculum fell from the sky into my hands and the information popped into my head?

I went to acquire the education and information from the right people, and followed through by taking good care of myself...

You need to help yourself. The doctor/dentist/specialist is only a partner in your healthcare. They like you to think you NEED them because that makes $$$ for them, but it is truly the daily decisions you make for yourself through exercise, nutrition, safety, and education that keep you healthy.

[eightyferrettoes]

Um, I was joking. Y'know, jokes?

Thanks for the advice, seriously though. Straight Face Only now.

[SKK]

Originally Posted by AngelBee

I think I fall somewhere inbetween on this issue.....if I have the issue correct. Long thread...

I do believe women need to be more educated and comfortable with touching their bodies and doing self checks.

I also feel that testing "can" be very beneficial. The key to me is customizing things for each woman, so that she is comfortable and her risks are weighed out to decide what testing/preventative things she should be doing by herself or with a medical advisor.

Well said! (where'd that cute lil angelbee smilie go?)

[SKK]

Here's what I'm coming away with:

(1) Women need to know and feel comfortable with their own bodies and knowledge, whether that knowledge comes from their own intuition or their lay community;

(2) Many women have "lost" the ability to feel comfortable with their own bodies and knowledge, and this is "bad" - (I completely agree) Many women simply rely on their doctors to tell them if and when something is wrong, and this is risky. You are the best keeper of your own body - it's your stuff, not the doctor's and ultimately, only you have truly unconflicted interests in keeping it healthy!

(3) BUT, there are many things that our own comfort with our bodies and our own knowledge cannot detect. We may be able to detect a lump in our breast (if we are empowered enough and feel comfortable enough to examine them), but it is unlikely that we would be able to detect a few abnormal cells on our cervices (?). This is where the medical profession comes in.

(4) The problem with the medical profession is their testing regimen treats it as a one-size-fits-all process. They push all exams on all women even if a paticular woman doesn't need a particular exam at that time. (sounds vaguely sorta analogous to the NO VBAC policies in so many places). This is where a woman's own comfort and knowledge could come in, to work in cooperation with a doctor or midwife to come up with an individualized plan that is best for that woman.

[the_lissa]

:

[Hoopin' Mama]

I know my own body very well, I am educated about it, and I get my yearly exam and will continue to do so. I will not stress about it if I am a couple months late or anything, but I think it's important.

I have a good doctor and he is not a stranger to me. But even when I didn't have health insurance, I used the Planned Parenthood clinic. I really don't thk the women who treated me at Planned Parenthood were about un-empowering women.

Once I had an abnormal PAP, so I was tested again. It was reassuring that it came back normal the second time. My doctor didn't go off the deep end, and I would have had more opinions before I would have had any other invasive procedures done.

So in a nutshell, I think that a woman can be educated about her body and still think that the yearly exams are a good idea. I would personally encourage everyone to get one. I know a really healthy woman, whole foods eater, triathalon participant, who had her cancer detected early and is cancer-free now.

And my dh goes to a urologist on a yearly basis as well.

[Marsupialmom]

Originally Posted by MamaInTheBoonies

Men are not oppressed the same as women are, so, no I don't think men need to be empowered.
Men are allowed to sit in front of the tv with their hand in their pants feeling themselves. They are not made to feel ashamed about it. They scratch their balls without running and hiding in the bathroom or bedroom to do so.
What happens when a woman is caught with her hand in her pants or scratching herself?

Little boys are allowed to look and play with their genitals, but people freak if little girls do the same, kwim?

Mama do you have a little boy? I have a little boy and my son has adjusted and played himself opening. It was not ok with the public. I also don't think sitting on the couch scratching oneself is socially acceptable, I think that was the big joke behind Al Bundy doing it. It was gross and un-couth.

Many men think the circumcised penis is normal and natural how is that educated? Even know a man with Gynaecomastia (AKA man boobs)? They are not educated in issues that really concern them and how to tell that what they are feeling are not normal. My grandfather, 3 uncles and my dad have had prostate cancer. It was not until after my dad got it did they discuss or share that they had the same early symptoms. The doctors didn't educated them. All five of these men didn't know anything about doing a testicular self exam. They all had cancer and not one urologist/oncologist told them that they should be doing this. Elderly men get their genitals mutilated in nursing homes because they are in their natural state of having foreskin, when my grand-ma had major vaginal un-health in a nursing home it was called MEDICAL neglect.

I don't think just because men can touch their genitals easier make any more educated or at an advantage. They are just left ignorant about their bodies as women can be.

When it comes to medical health people, NOT JUST A GENDER, needs to be empowered and educated. I agree with you that we (women) do not need to just blindly put faith in our doctors but feel this is a need for all patience.

Yes men are not oppressed the same but when it comes to medical health they are just as oppressed the methods are different. All patience need empowerment. I resent the fact that you belittle half the population's medical needs just because they don't have a vagina. The medical community can blinding ignore women in medical testing. Yet at the same time they have no problems using, abusing, and treating men as guinea pigs with little or no concern with the out come. The medical/scientific community abuses and is callus to both sex.

As requiring a prostate exam for Viagra, I don't disagree with (my dad got Viagra to cure his cancer). But at the same time, when a man had ED the prostate can be a very small part of the cause. When men have ED their heart/circulatory health actually should be the first priority for checking (circulatory issues are the major and most deadly cause for ED). Mental, prostate, and other meds are pretty much tied for the second thing to look into for ED. I think it is iron when females automatically argue prostate exams for Viagra/ED meds it show an ignorance on men’s health that most likely even the men in their lives carry. The need for Viagra and prostate testing is not equal to cervical exams or birth control.

[nikirj]

Originally Posted by HeartsOpenWide

Well thats even more reason why you need one. And it is true, I work for several doctors. Maybe you need to get a better one, not just one that does what ever their patient wants so they do not have to hear them complain

This is a scary statement. What if my doctor thinks I need a c-section? What if she thinks my children NEED to be vaccinated. Doctors believe these things, believe them 100%, and sometimes they are 100% wrong. Do you really think that a pushy doctor is superior to one who will listen to patients? That statement was wrong on so many levels. Patients need to AGREE with their doctors on what care they are receiving. Forced care is an awfully scary concept.

[HeartsOpenWide]

My point was that medical providers are trained to preform paps once a year on woman that take hormonal birth control (like the pill or shot, or patch) or else not give them any more. There are medical reaons for it. Valid ones. And if her doctor is just giving her more and more birth control pills with out any paps than her doctor is in the wrong. Its not about forced care, it is abot care period.

Originally Posted by nikirj

This is a scary statement. What if my doctor thinks I need a c-section? What if she thinks my children NEED to be vaccinated. Doctors believe these things, believe them 100%, and sometimes they are 100% wrong. Do you really think that a pushy doctor is superior to one who will listen to patients? That statement was wrong on so many levels. Patients need to AGREE with their doctors on what care they are receiving. Forced care is an awfully scary concept.

[HeartsOpenWide]

Originally Posted by applejuice

You should ask a midwife to show you how to examine your own cervix...

It has been done for a long time.

I have a plastic speculum. I agree that knowing your own cervix can be a good thing. My point was that you are not going to know you have cervical cancer by feeling it with your finger-tips!

[njeb]

Originally Posted by SKK

Here's what I'm coming away with:

(1) Women need to know and feel comfortable with their own bodies and knowledge, whether that knowledge comes from their own intuition or their lay community;

(2) Many women have "lost" the ability to feel comfortable with their own bodies and knowledge, and this is "bad" - (I completely agree) Many women simply rely on their doctors to tell them if and when something is wrong, and this is risky. You are the best keeper of your own body - it's your stuff, not the doctor's and ultimately, only you have truly unconflicted interests in keeping it healthy!

(3) BUT, there are many things that our own comfort with our bodies and our own knowledge cannot detect. We may be able to detect a lump in our breast (if we are empowered enough and feel comfortable enough to examine them), but it is unlikely that we would be able to detect a few abnormal cells on our cervices (?). This is where the medical profession comes in.

(4) The problem with the medical profession is their testing regimen treats it as a one-size-fits-all process. They push all exams on all women even if a paticular woman doesn't need a particular exam at that time. (sounds vaguely sorta analogous to the NO VBAC policies in so many places). This is where a woman's own comfort and knowledge could come in, to work in cooperation with a doctor or midwife to come up with an individualized plan that is best for that woman.

Well said, SKK!

[~member~]

Originally Posted by HeartsOpenWide

I have a plastic speculum. I agree that knowing your own cervix can be a good thing. My point was that you are not going to know you have cervical cancer by feeling it with your finger-tips!

No where did anyone say that it is possible to check for cervical cancer by palpitating.
I was referring to pregnancy and the unnecessary checking of the cervix throughout pregnancy. It is more dangerous and opens a pregnant woman and her unborn to infection.

[~member~]

Marsupialmom- yes I have a son. Yes, I have a husband. Yes, I have uncles. Yes, I have two brothers.

My point was that throughout the Medical Industries history, men need only complain a few times before the Medical Industry changes for them, that is not the case for women.

[orangebird]

Originally Posted by queen bee

"no where in this thread did I say I smoked."

I never said it was in this thread.

"As for having solid data, read my pp.
Rather than point out my fallacies, why don't you stay OT?
Provide solid data disproving what I have written."

Why are you so bent on having solid data?

(Yes, it's official. I now have no idea what the hell you are talking about.)

...But she admitted it none the less...

**What does smoking and drinking coffee have to do with healing the body?
Had I known they were dangerous, I wouldn't have used them. Everyone I knew growing up, smoked and drank coffee.

What does any of that have to do with my OP?

[~member~]

Vaginal exams can increase the risks of infection, even when done carefully and with sterile gloves, etc. It pushes the normal bacteria found in the vagina upwards towards the cervix.

Link to article...The Myth of Vaginal Exams

[Moon Faerie]

Originally Posted by MamaInTheBoonies

No where did anyone say that it is possible to check for cervical cancer by palpitating.
I was referring to pregnancy and the unnecessary checking of the cervix throughout pregnancy. It is more dangerous and opens a pregnant woman and her unborn to infection.

I am now completely and totally confused! I thought this thread was about regular exams, including paps. I guess I need to start over because I had no idea we were talking about pregnancy. If that's the case, and we're only talking about vaginal exams in pregnancy, then I think you'll have a lot more mamas on your side.

[~member~]

Originally Posted by Nikel1979

I am now completely and totally confused! I thought this thread was about regular exams, including paps. I guess I need to start over because I had no idea we were talking about pregnancy. If that's the case, and we're only talking about vaginal exams in pregnancy, then I think you'll have a lot more mamas on your side.

I am not interested in who is on what side. I am interested in raising awareness concerning the Medical Industry and how it treats women.
When women as a whole are blindly trusting the medical industry, it is that much harder for us to demand the births we want/need. It is that much harder for us to get the care we want/need for our children.

It was other people who jumped on the cervical cancer vs cervical checks during pregnancy.

[Hoopin' Mama]

Interesting link, but don't see how it is relevant. I thought this discussion was about annuals, not pg related exams?????
Can a latexed finger do any more damage than a penis with a condom? (In reference to the pushing up of bacteria in the vagina towards the cervix)

[Hoopin' Mama]

Also, I think if you want to talk about cervical exams in late pregnancy not being beneficial, I think many many MDC Mamas would agree. It just doesn't seem like it is part of this original discussion.

[orangebird]

I do not rely on studies or research that is written by men who have only been studying cervical cancer for the last 65 years.
Urine and blood samples will give a more accurate diagnosis. The problem lies in everyone not asking for change from something so archaic, invasive and damaging.
I found this out after being kicked out of every clinic and the only hospital for refusing a vaginal exam. I took my 5 mos pregnant self into the Nursing Home. Yes, the Nursing Home. Old people get their testing done through urine samples and blood samples, because the doctor there knew it was more dangerous to be scraping cervical cells off of elderly women, or scraping the inside of a male's penis.

I'm still waiting for the links about blood tests for cervical cancer.

Since everyone seems so reliant on printed words, here is the one for prostate cancer. Now ask yourself why they can screen blood in men, but not in women?
The answer should be apparent. They do have blood screenings for women, they are just not made available.
Prostate Cancer FAQ

And this link is just about prostate cancer, it says nothing of blood testing for cervical cancer, or did I miss something? Yes, I know later you say "The blood test was for STD's, not cervical cancer." but I swear it sounds like we are talking about cervical cancer/pap smears on most of this thread. I'm really confused. I know the difference between paps, vag exams, pelvic exams, etc. I agree with some of your points but don't see how for most women getting paps every few years has more risks than benefits or disempowers her. I really want to understand this point of yours. Not trying to be a pest, really, but the first few pages seemed like a whole lot of runaround and backpeddling. I agree there is still progress to be made in the industry as well as the empowerment of women but please help me understand some of the points here.

My cousin skipped paps for over 9 years. When she became pregnant with her 2nd baby they found a large tumor with a vaginal exam. She nearly died from the cancer, it was spread into her bowel and bladder anf frankly she still isn't out of the woods. Her fate might be better had they caught it earlier. Normally I'm not a fan of vag exams during pregnancy but good thing she had one. Yes, had she been educated and checking her own cervix it would have been caught sooner. But a pap would have caught it even earlier.