Women and the Medical Industry - Page 10

[~member~]

Originally Posted by archaeomom

Interesting link, but don't see how it is relevant. I thought this discussion was about annuals, not pg related exams?????
Can a latexed finger do any more damage than a penis with a condom? (In reference to the pushing up of bacteria in the vagina towards the cervix)

The article is relevent in showing the dangers of unnecessary vaginal exams at any point in a woman's life, whether she is pregnant or not.

A woman's body is used to it's own flora/fauna, so checking your own vagina, labia, etc is not going to be as dangerous as having some stranger do it. Also, a woman will not accidentally damage herself while checking.

[orangebird]

Originally Posted by archaeomom

Also, I think if you want to talk about cervical exams in late pregnancy not being beneficial, I think many many MDC Mamas would agree. It just doesn't seem like it is part of this original discussion.

Yes, I got through 5 pages without for a second thinking we were talking about pregnancy related exams.

[~member~]

Originally Posted by mara

I agree with some of your points but don't see how for most women getting paps every few years has more risks than benefits or disempowers her.

No where did I say anything about not getting a pap smear. I said that there are less damaging, less invasive tests for checking for cervical cancer.

I think what is happening is people are getting upset and not really wanting to have an intelligent discussion regarding women and the medical industry. And, no I am not perfect at writing out everything, either.

[Hoopin' Mama]

Ok, from the article:

Vaginal exams can increase the risks of infection, even when done carefully and with sterile gloves, etc. It pushes the normal bacteria found in the vagina upwards towards the cervix.

In a non-pregnant woman, I still wonder how this would differ from a condom during sex. I am not sure that it would. Anyone?

There is also increased risk of rupturing the membranes. Some practitioners routinely do what is called stripping the membranes, which simply separates the bag of waters from the cervix. The thought behind this is that it will stimulate the production of prostaglandins to help labor begin and irritate the cervix causing it to contract. This has not been shown to necessarily be effective and does have the aforementioned risks.

Isn't the rupturing of the membrane only in reference to a pregnant women? I lent out my copy of Our Bodies Ourselves so I can't look it up.

[Periwinkle]

MamaInTheBoonies can you please tell us what the other tests are for checking for cervical cancer ? I've read this whole thread and do not see any information about tests/methods/technology *currently* available. Not being snippy just honestly wanting to know what these tests are. Thanks!

[Hoopin' Mama]

Originally Posted by MamaInTheBoonies

I think what is happening is people are getting upset and not really wanting to have an intelligent discussion regarding women and the medical industry. And, no I am not perfect at writing out everything, either.

I think women here love having discussions about the fallacies of the medical industry.
I personally took the tone of your posts to mean that women who believe in the benefits of the annual exams are uneducated on the subject.That we are just lining up like cattle to have the medical industry take advantage of us.That we are afraid of our own bodies.

I guess I misread?

[orangebird]

Originally Posted by MamaInTheBoonies

No where did I say anything about not getting a pap smear. I said that there are less damaging, less invasive tests for checking for cervical cancer.

I think what is happening is people are getting upset and not really wanting to have an intelligent discussion regarding women and the medical industry. And, no I am not perfect at writing out everything, either.

I know you didn't say specifically no one should get a pap smear ever, but it was implied. What are the blood tests you mentioned, that is what I am asking. You say people are getting upset, but I think it is because alot of people have asked questions and you talk around it. So here is one question at a time, so it doesn't get confusing... What is the blood test(s) for cervical cancer? I do want to have an intelligent discussion regarding women and the medical industry, as I am a woman, I am part of the medical industry, and I also usually seek alternative therapies and question everything within the medical industry.

[Hoopin' Mama]

Originally Posted by MamaInTheBoonies

No where did I say anything about not getting a pap smear. I said that there are less damaging, less invasive tests for checking for cervical cancer..

No, but in your OP you stated that there are more risks than benefits in getting a PAP. So one might logically infer that you are advocating not getting one.

[UmmBnB]

I have an idea, if you feel that an annual exam makes you an uninformed slave to the medical industry, don't go!

As for me, I'll take my well educated vagina in once a year for a check.

There we have it. Everyone do what they believe best for themselves! Radical concept, I know.

[orangebird]

Maria that's just crazy!!!!!!!!

[annarbor931]

Removed.

[nikirj]

Originally Posted by HeartsOpenWide

My point was that medical providers are trained to preform paps once a year on woman that take hormonal birth control (like the pill or shot, or patch) or else not give them any more. There are medical reaons for it. Valid ones. And if her doctor is just giving her more and more birth control pills with out any paps than her doctor is in the wrong. Its not about forced care, it is abot care period.

You are calling this appropriate? Her doctor is wrong for not forcing a pap smear? YIKES! Really? I mean...really? Wouldn't you think that the appropriate thing to do would be to advise her of the reasoning and dangers, allowing her the opportunity for informed consent OR the opportunity to decline? Don't you think that our care should be, at the very least to this extent, in our own hands? Likewise, the principle of informed consent should be about giving all the necessary information, not about coercion.

[~member~]

Originally Posted by mara

I know you didn't say specifically no one should get a pap smear ever, but it was implied. What are the blood tests you mentioned, that is what I am asking. You say people are getting upset, but I think it is because alot of people have asked questions and you talk around it. So here is one question at a time, so it doesn't get confusing... What is the blood test(s) for cervical cancer? I do want to have an intelligent discussion regarding women and the medical industry, as I am a woman, I am part of the medical industry, and I also usually seek alternative therapies and question everything within the medical industry.

Right now, there are no blood tests for cervical cancer. Does that mean there never will be? No.
Again, the technology is there to create less invasive, less damaging , and more accurate tests.

[annettemarie]

I wonder if perhaps we are dealing with very different ideas of how the medical industry is supposed to act.

Personally, I take a very consumeristic approach. I am paying them to do a job. They are, to put it crudely, servants, in service to me. I have absolutely no obligation to take their advice or to do what they say. I will often tell my doctor, I don't want a prescription, I simply want a diagnosis (often just to confirm my own diagnosis). Of course, this is usually in regards to things like ear infections. I do go for bi-yearly exams, and in that case, I am paying them to do something I cannot do myself, much as I pay the car guy to fix my engine. If the car guy came to me and said, that whole engine is shot and has to go, I wouldn't just hand him a thousand bucks and let him do what he wanted; I would get a second opinion and make up my mind myself.

Other people, I think, see doctors as authority figures whom they have to pay for the honor of getting their opinion, and who must be listened to.

[pilesoflaundry]

Originally Posted by MamaInTheBoonies

I disagree. Many women have no family history of cervical cancer, so then the Pap Smear becomes more dangerous than beneficial.

My sil has cervical cancer, very fast spreading and agressive, it wasn't caught until stage 3. She didn't go for regular paps because she didn't have insurance. There is *no* family history of anyone else in the entire family having it. She was finally having a lot of pain and other issues and she paid out of pocket for tests to see what was going on. It has spread to her vulva and other areas.

I agree with AnnetteMarie's post. It's all in how much power you give the doctor and how much or little you agree to think for yourself that is the problem. Not the tests themselves.

[~member~]

Originally Posted by annettemarie

I wonder if perhaps we are dealing with very different ideas of how the medical industry is supposed to act.

Personally, I take a very consumeristic approach. I am paying them to do a job. They are, to put it crudely, servants, in service to me. I have absolutely no obligation to take their advice or to do what they say. I will often tell my doctor, I don't want a prescription, I simply want a diagnosis (often just to confirm my own diagnosis). Of course, this is usually in regards to things like ear infections. I do go for bi-yearly exams, and in that case, I am paying them to do something I cannot do myself, much as I pay the car guy to fix my engine. If the car guy came to me and said, that whole engine is shot and has to go, I wouldn't just hand him a thousand bucks and let him do what he wanted; I would get a second opinion and make up my mind myself.

Other people, I think, see doctors as authority figures whom they have to pay for the honor of getting their opinion, and who must be listened to.

But the mechanic cannot charge you with Automobile Neglect and take your Automobiles away from you or force you to 'fix' something on your Automobile that you firmly believe does not need to be fixed.

[Lucky Charm]

Originally Posted by MamaInTheBoonies

Right now, there are no blood tests for cervical cancer.

I believe you said there were.

Annettemarie, I like your last post.

And your point about health-care providers being servants to you isn't lost on me
At my job I am there to serve the community.

[Lucky Charm]

Originally Posted by annarbor931

This entire thread is nonsense. Ignoring it is for the best.

Another good point.

This thread is like a car accident, as I drive by I cant help myself from looking *sigh*

[SKK]

Originally Posted by MamaInTheBoonies

But the mechanic cannot charge you with Automobile Neglect and take your Automobiles away from you or force you to 'fix' something on your Automobile that you firmly believe does not need to be fixed.

Neither can a doctor, at least with respect to an adult. Now, I suppose a doctor can get a court order to force a woman to have a c-section, but this is pretty rare (and disturbing). As far as illnesses or medical testing goes, a doctor cannot force you to fix something. If a doctor forces you to fix something against your will, then that is either assault or negligence (for failing to obtain your consent to the procedure). At least in theory.

[annettemarie]

Originally Posted by MamaInTheBoonies

But the mechanic cannot charge you with Automobile Neglect and take your Automobiles away from you or force you to 'fix' something on your Automobile that you firmly believe does not need to be fixed.

Neither can a doctor. They can go to the state, and I suppose a mechanic could as well if he had proof he felt I was operating my vehicle in an unsafe manner. This, however, is a whole other thread.