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The pagan misfit (yes I am refering to myself :-) ) - Page 2

post #21 of 42

more about the alone thing

Greenfrogs and Arduinna--I know, so often I wish there were more people to mirror my beliefs *exactly* :LOL I guess I have issues with groups in general--quite often I feel organized groups of anyone can become elitist or limited in their thinking. But it is great to come here and connect, even if it's just to say how it feels to be different in the face of a majority.
post #22 of 42
In the interests of my continuing education, what is CUUPS? I am assuming UU is Universal Uniterian.
post #23 of 42
Thread Starter 
It's a pagan UU group. Not all UUs have them though.
post #24 of 42

Re: The pagan misfit (yes I am refering to myself :-) )

Quote:
Originally posted by Arduinna
I've pretty much stopped posting at my favorite pagan place, because I'm not eclectic enough or conservative enough to really fit in.
I think I know what you mean Arduinna. I don't post on any pagan boards anymore, and even some of the 'New Age" magazines aren't for me. I was the 'leader' of a local circle for a while, and that was great, still is, but there was getting to be a specific emphasis on Shamanism and that is not my focus.
I don't know if I would be considered conservative or liberal pagan ( aren't we all liberal????)


But I am a part time writer which allows me the opportunity to think out loud about some of the same stuff: I write for the local alternative spirituality newsletter and am acutally doing one on uses of the word Goddess ( such as your sub-title)
and how 'pop culture' it is all getting thus moving away from so much of the actual meaning.

Now I'M rambling !!!
post #25 of 42
Thread Starter 

Re: Re: The pagan misfit (yes I am refering to myself :-) )

Quote:
Originally posted by KeysMama
( aren't we all liberal????)
You would have thought so But in my experience no
post #26 of 42
Quote:
Originally posted by Arduinna
How are you liking UU?? I wish our local UU had a CUPPS chapter, but it doesn't.
UU is lovely. Dh and 16 yo dd did the legwork and found one in the next town they liked. We are in NE so there is one in just abt every town. UU has been around since the 1600's!

It does not have a CUUPS ( which stands for Covenant of UU Pagans). But we have met several "pagans" of various kinds. Some seem nice, some seem---flaky!

By and large, the people are open minded. Many seem to have been injured by the church of their childhoods, unless they were raised UU! My kids all go to "yUUth" group, and say all the kids are nice too. Cool, pierced or stylish, but seem intelligent and not deadened/overly rebellious, or otherwise burnt out.

UU is socially/environmentally active, and is involved in things like Habitat for Humanity and Loaves and Fishes.

We have heard their winter solstice celebration is standing room only, more well attended than the xmas one.

They also host a "Hindu" style sacred dance, other cool and multi-culti stuff.

We found out that the pagan circle from another nearby town has a Yule celebration, some kind of circle, which may be more for pagans alone than the big one at our church for all.

So, i might rec, even if your local UU doesn't have a CUUPS, you could still check it out and see if you find it enjoyable, you still might meet some cool people.
post #27 of 42
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the info Yours sounds great!!

I haven't gone to mine. We have a sunday service (seems a little to churchy for me) and some other things.
post #28 of 42
Pagan is just another category of people in my opinion
I know what you mean tho- I sometimes feel like that too
<shrug shoulders>
post #29 of 42
I understand what you mean, maybe, about conservative Pagans Arduinna. One fellow I "know" online is an adamant 2nd amendment supporter, yet he follows the pre-Christian practices of his heritage(Irish and Welsh), rather than the predominant Christian theology. His family thinks him a bit odd, but that group online also doesn't make a distinction between Christian and nonChristian. They're just all Celts and speak or are learning one or two of the languages. I find it quietly funny sometimes the things I just don't Get, and the other things I agree with him about.

I have to remind myself that pre-Christian cultures were not all love and light peace oriented. Some had quite well developed warrior traditions, which have continued. Those perspectives do have value I've found.

I'm one who thinks there's a time and a place for everything. Being a doormat isn't a particularly Pagan trait IMO either. Thank Goddess everything in life isn't so black&white!

I wish I could check out our local UU church to see if they're as accepting as I hear they can be. Maybe someday in the not too distant future...

post #30 of 42
Quote:
Originally posted by Arduinna
I haven't gone to mine. We have a sunday service (seems a little to churchy for me) and some other things.
ITA. That is why I firmly don't want to go every week. In fact, our church is so traditional looking. it is from the 1700's, a small white NE style church, like Geo Washington went to. Steeple, bell, and even the pews are in family boxes with little doors! I feel funny "worshipping," or whatever it is I am doing, in a square room, everyone facing an altar up front.

But, then, the service is so non-traditional. Children are there at the beginning, invited to come up and hear a little story sometimes that the pastor (a Lesbian, BTW, and she has a beautiful soothing voice, long brown hair worn loose) will tell or read the them, then they leave for their own thing (RE--religious education, which seems to be of all religions, with much emphasis on nature), and the adults sing them out with a special little song. Very respectful and supportive of kids.

the first time I went, they were starting a mentor program, a coming of age thing for young teens. Each child went up front with their families and their mentor, and gave their parents a symbol of their childhood. One girl (15, goth looking, but so sweet) gave her dad a messenger bag full of the books he used to spend an hour every night of her childhood reading to her. They were both crying and I think half the congregation was too! there is a box of tissues in each pew box! I am getting the feeling many parents are into a form of AP. Bunch of stinkin liberals!

The services are all so democratic that way, it seems to come from the people, not from the pastor. She facilitates more like a LLL Leader, doesn't dictate. She does do a sermon, but it is short.

The first part of the service is when people who want to go up and light a small candle from a lit chalice, and tell why they are lighting the candle, for a celebration of a birth, for someone who is ill, for joy that a family member is visiting, etc.

At thanksgiving, they passed out baskets of bread, and each person ripped of a piece for themselves, and ripped off a piece for the person next to them, or you could choose to get up and go across the room, to feed whomever you liked. A nice way to do "communion," I thought! (That night, the teens did the same in yUUth group)

We sing hymns that are old fashioned in flavor, but mostly about caring and community and so forth.

After the church part, most people seem to go downstairs for the coffee and snacks (really good snacks), to chat and network.

Each church has it's own flavor tho, some seem a bit more xiany.
post #31 of 42
Quote:
Originally posted by Meiri

I have to remind myself that pre-Christian cultures were not all love and light peace oriented. Some had quite well developed warrior traditions, which have continued. Those perspectives do have value I've found.
Exactly what I think too. So much of the neo-pagan assumption is actually , IMO, New Age Spirituality rather than actually pagan.

I tend to be more of a Pagan traditionalist rather than New Age. Often the 2 get blended into a very confusing cauldron
post #32 of 42
It seems I'm so blissfully unaware of all these different factions--ay yi yi. The spiritual community in NYC that I belonged to I suppose would be thought of as New Age by many pagans--and I was surprised to learn some pagans look upon that negatively. One thing that I loved about my community there was that it was extremely tolerant and didn't invest much energy in finding differences. Sort of "be who you are and you'll attract like." I don't really need to call myself pagan, it's more for the sake of conversation.
post #33 of 42
Quote:
Originally posted by ladylee
New Age by many pagans--and I was surprised to learn some pagans look upon that negatively.
gosh, I hope I didn't sound negative. I think that there is so much freedom for diversity and religious expression in our country that even the obscure paths have even more obsure branches!! kwim?

I gravitate towards all 'enlightened' paths and thinkers and groups, but I do seem to find I am not as comfortable in a "new age' group. Maybe its the Angel Light Therapy people, or the Rebirth Your Spirit through Harmony people, I don't know, it just does not feel real to me. Again, just my comfort zone and what I enjoy with regards to celebrating life and spirit.

I know for ages the Xian groups have been divided ( my JW friends are very anti-popXian) and the popXian's are very anti-fundie.

Same with some Judeo groups, and Hindu groups.

I guess it only stands to reason there will be divides in the Pagan sect. I would like to think though , that us Pagans are more tolerant of our inner-differences
post #34 of 42
Oh no, KM--you didn't come across that way at all. But what you said did remind me of those things I've encountered recently, and what I said was in response to those pagan "purists' (whatever that is!) that would deem me not pagan :LOL. And about the "dark" and "light" energy--although much of what I do is about enhancing the light (I'm a Reiki practitioner,) the Taoist in me needs to keep it real and accept the presence/necessity of both as a celebration of life. I don't think I'd be particularly comfortable in those groups you mentioned either. And I agree-strength in numbers, and to become divisive within ourselves is counterproductive .
post #35 of 42
Thread Starter 
I would like to think though , that us Pagans are more tolerant of our inner-differences

I'd like to think that too. But I've been proven wrong.

I've heard that whole"we forget that ancient pagans weren't all love and light" Yep they weren't. But that has absolutely no bearing on my modern day paganism.I don't live in ancient times, I live now. Some modern people aren't all "love and light either" the hippy flower child that I am, I have no interest in "warriors". The precise reason why I don't get along with most pagan conservatives. I must have been absent the day they passed out the rule book that says we must be carbon copies of ancient pagans.

Fundies come in all religions even paganism.

I think my real difference is that I do not have an ancestor worshipping belief system. I don't believe that my soul is always reincarnated into the same family group. As such I don't feel that "own" my pantheon. I don't feel the need to require everyone to worship as I do or they are cultural thieves or blasphemers.

It seems the one upmanship of Xtanityhas come to paganism, or maybe it has been there all along and I just didn't notice it at first.
post #36 of 42
I've heard that whole"we forget that ancient pagans weren't all love and light" Yep they weren't. But that has absolutely no bearingon my modern day paganism.I don't live in ancient times, I live now. Some modern people aren't all "love and light either" the hippy flower child that I am, I have no interest in "warriors". The precise reason why I don't get along with most paganconservatives. I must have been absent the day they passed out the rule book that says we must be carbon copies of ancient pagans.

Adruinna,

I really liked what you said here. I think that is the most important thing that people forget from any spritual practice is that spirtuality needs to evolve and change because people and culture changes. That does not mean that we throw everything out and start anew nor does it mean that we don't keep traditions from the past. I believe that spirtuality should have meaning now not a rule book to follow.
post #37 of 42
Quote:
Originally posted by Arduinna
.
It seems the one upmanship of Xtanityhas come to paganism, or maybe it has been there all along and I just didn't notice it at first.
Xtanityhas? Is that another way to spell it? I think I am offended.
LOL!

Sorry. Too giddy. ild

Anyhoo, I have been reading a lot about this fundie-liberal idea lately. Or as the Jesus Mysteries calls it, literalism-gnosticism.

The closer you get to enlightenment/gnosis, which I take as a direct experience of the deity, the more you will have in common with people of other religions (Jews, Buddhists, Xians, whathaveyou), who are also non-dogmatic (eg: the Kabbalists, the Zen, the UU). A mystic is a mystic. Now, literalists depend upon and are attached to, their dogma: the proper way to do a ritual, the proper way to imagine what god looks like, how to pray, holy days, books/prophecies, clothing to wear, how many times to cross yourself or bow, what kind of athame, color of candle, whatever.

Taking the Bible literally is the most obvious example of this in mainstream culture (never mind that half the NT is forged, and the rest meant as allegory, ahem).

Now, when Paul said, don't concern yourself with endless histories and geneologies (sorry to quote a Xian in a pagan thread, but he was gnostic), he meant, go beyond the Outer Mysteries of the psychic xian, to the Inner Mysteries of the pneumatic, or fully initiated-- to the secret message, which was: Christ in you. When you get to the point where you can experience god directly, (gnosis, enlightenment), you can throw out all your books and paraphenalia, can't you?

So, if people are too attached to all the "stuff," they may be missing out on the whole point. Then they spend a whole lot of time on "holy" wars, and really miss the point. :
post #38 of 42
Quote:
Originally posted by DaryLLL



The closer you get to enlightenment/gnosis, which I take as a direct experience of the deity, the more you will have in common with people of other

Beauty in words!


xo
Mirine
post #39 of 42
Thread Starter 
Excellent point Darylll. That is the precise reason why I am the misfit I am. I am only following direction regarding my specific way of worship. Prior to getting this direction, I practiced in a very different way.

Greenfrogs, thank you. After I posted I thought it just sounded like a tirade. Which it probably was to some extent. I will get back to you regarding the book club ideas. I am super busy preparing for the new puppy, in fact I must leave any minute to go get him.

Darylll, glad we have been talking about UU, dh has decided he needs a more structured practice so I suggested we check out the UU. He now wants to go this weekend. While I don't need or particularly want four walls and pew as part of my practice I will go with him. Maybe it will be a good addition to what I already do? Or at least a way for us to meet like minded souls IRL.

Thanks for the great discussion you guys, I'm off
post #40 of 42
The beauty part of paganism, is that you can always start your own Trad that is exactly what you are looking for <heehee>

Seriously, I practice Othalla Wicca, which is a BTW and Eclectic blend, and it works well for me. My point is, that there is a group for every soul- have you checked out www.witchvox.com?
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