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What consequences do you use for teen? - Page 2

post #21 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by KristiMetz
I dunno. But, as a GD parent I do like hearing about how people do things (I will someday have a teenager) so I really appreciate everyone's contributions! I will go back to :
I understand that.

So maybe my question should be 'Why do folks ask questions of MDC members and then get upset when they are given GD information?"

One can ask *anything*, of course. But to get upset, defensive and snarky when GD thoughts are offered? At MDC. I mean, what sort of answers would one expect from GD mothers of actual teens?
post #22 of 148
Generally, I think the action has its own set of consequences that turn out to be their own punishment. I do believe in restrictions though. We have talked about these issues a great deal. I have no qualms about taking away a privelege or to put up something he values so he can't have it. I would do this no matter what age as long as he lives in my home. To us, no action is the same as permission.
post #23 of 148
I am loving the creative ideas here!
Our son just turned 16, and one thing we have learned these past few years (at least for him) is grounding does not work. Keeping him in the house just makes all of us miserable. He knows our rules, and when he breaks them, we withhold money and transportation. Not having spending money, or not being able to get somewhere, seems to go a lot further with him (really, it's just another form of grounding, but it seems to make more sense to him!). With him turning 16, and soon to have his own part-time job and workig towards his drivers license, we will probably be changing the rules again. We'll sit down with him and talk about it when the time comes.
Any way you look at it, communication is the key. Once you lose that, you've lost everything.
post #24 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by nonconformnmom
... flippant disregard for others in the family, etc.
Could you give examples? It's hard to guess what instances you're talking about--if she borrowed something and failed to return it, I'd remind her. If she borrowed something and mistreated it, I'd expect it to be replaced. If she's staying out later than she thought she'd be, I'd explain that we needed a phone call so that we didn't worry---(just as *I* would call if I was going to be very late.)

We've always talked to our kids about treating others as they would want to be treated--I can't really see how talking could "work" when they're younger but fail when they're 18. I'd impress on her how her actions affect the rest of the family...say, she's using my car and doesn't return when she's expected, thereby making someone else in the family late. If explaining to her what the problem is didn't cause her to return on time, I'd probably not be inclined to loan her my car anymore. Basically, I'd treat her as an adult, with the same expectations I'd have of any other adult.

The whole punishment/consequence thing has been debated here elsewhere, but this is an 18 year old we're talking about, right?
post #25 of 148
I read your blog entry about your teen leaving the computer on all night. While I love the book you mention (we own it) , you do know the world is full of irony , right? for instance--

It took more energy and chemical dyes and silver to produce that book and distribute it around the world than your daughter's computer uses if left on overnight, esp if the screen goes blank after a certain amount to time of non-activity.

I am betting your anger at your daughter goes much deeper than you're asking about here.

I think you could maybe arrange with your daughter to shut down her computer at night, and you could turn it on for her (or whoever is awake first) in the morning so by the time she wakes, it's on.

I think there are ways to work these sorts of things out without punishment or shame. There is a way to read that book and discuss it's important issues as as a family without using the book in a negative way.
post #26 of 148
Thread Starter 
Please don't take what I'm posting here as anything but sincere.

UUMom, I thought I posted this on the "Teens" thread, not the GD thread, that is why I didn't expect this to turn into a GD discussion. Seriously, I didn't realize that GD was the expected or most common method for all discipline issues discussed on MDC (not being snarky or sarcastic; I'm honestly puzzled and somewhat contrite.) In fact, I am so new to much of this that I also didn't realize that consequences are against GD philosophy.

I do not have anger at my daughter, I was unhappy with her behavior. And your attempt to critique my parenting by bringing up my blog entry here and discussing it is hurtful. I have a comment section on my blog ...

As for using the book in a "negative way" I'm hard-pressed to understand how asking an 18-year old to read and discuss a book with me can be construed as negative. I certainly didn't force her; I offered it to her as a way of shortening the time she was restricted from online access. I also do not see how limiting online access is a 'punishment' or anything less than gentle guidance/ discipline. I saw it as a way of redirecting her to a more constructive way to use her time and the household's energy consumption.

What I suggested to her is that she turn her computer off at night and then turn it back on in the morning before she steps in the shower and that way it will be up and ready for use when she is showered and ready to start her day. A simple solution, but she wasn't happy with it, which is why the next step was to let her experience a day without access so that perhaps 3 minutes waiting time for it to start up would not seem like such a hardship.

Again, I'm sincerely sorry that I inadvertently stepped into a hornet's nest by discussing a method other than GD on the Teen board. I'll know better next time.
post #27 of 148
Your blog is in your sig! If you don't want people to read it, why is it in your sig?? Of course, if it's against MDC rules to comment on a public blogs in sigs, then I will edit.

And as far as GD/Teen threads. Are you kidding?? This is MDC. We're not going to embrace punishment anymore than we are going to embrace crying it out--no matter where you post it.

You were repsectful, imo, of your 18 yr old daughter. You are trying to control her by shaming. If you post on a public board, on an AP/GD site-- no matter how old your child is , you're going to hear things you don't like if you are asking how to punish your child. Your 18 yr old child.

You realize this is MDC, yes?
post #28 of 148
Thread Starter 
UUMom, While this is MDC, I see threads that discuss both EC and cloth diapers; both breastfeeding and formula feeding; both homebirths and hospital births ... why not various flavors of discipline? It's not like I posted about spanking my daughter. (Edited to add that I've seen threads on MDC about mamas spanking their child that received more compassionate responses than have been shown in this thread.)

As for my feelings toward my daughter, please do not speculate about that unless you know us personally. At the very least, do a search on the word "teenager" or "High School Graduate" on my blog and get a bit more information before judging.

I don't object, at all, to anyone here at MDC reading my blog; of course, that's why it's in my sig. What I object to is you dragging that story into this thread and making it seem as if it is all about that one incident. I was simply interested in seeing how other MDC mamas handle consequences with their teenager - honestly not knowing that MDC is anti-consequences. Now I know.

I don't want to keep beating this horse with you, UUmom. You have succeeded in convincing me that I made a mistake in posting this here, what more do you want? I'm sorry. I truly am.
post #29 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by nonconformnmom
UUMom, While this is MDC, I see threads that discuss both EC and cloth diapers; both breastfeeding and formula feeding; both homebirths and hospital births ... why not various flavors of discipline? It's not like I posted about spanking my daughter.

As for my feelings toward my daughter, please do not speculate about that unless you know us personally. At the very least, do a search on the word "teenager" on my blog and get a bit more information before judging.

I don't object, at all, to anyone here at MDC reading my blog; of course, that's why it's in my sig. What I object to is you dragging that story into this thread and making it seem as if it is all about that one incident. I was simply interested in seeing how other MDC mama's handle consequences with their teenager - honestly not knowing that MDC is anti-consequences. Now I know. I don't want to keep beating this horse with you, UUmom. You have succeeded in convincing me that I made a mistake in posting this here, what more do you want? I'm sorry. I truly am.

MDC doesnot advocate bottle feeding over breastfeeding. We do not advocate un-ncessary c-sections over empowered natural births. And as far as I know MDC does not advocate shaming children as punishment.

Are you sorry to have posted here because not everyone agrees with punishment? Or are you sorry you got some food for thought?

I have a 16 yr old and 13 yr old. I know what i am talking about. I am not living in la la land with perfect children who never challenge me.

I am not quite sure what you need at this point. The tone of this thread changed as soon as you became snarky to UnschoolMa's post, which was very nice, even if it wasn't what you were looking for.

Are you sorry you were snarky? I mean, seriously, what did you expect after that?

And nobody is anti- consequences (and again with the sarcastic thumbs up. What is that?). As someone at MDC said "consequences are when you go out in the rain you get wet". You were looking for punishment, which is just another word for 'consequence'. MDC stretches all of us to seek new ways of thinking about child respect. What is it? what does it look like in practice? Are there ways I can get my needs met (saving energy) in ways that do not shame my child? Are there ways I can 'reach' my child where we can both come away with our dignity intact?

If you blow us all off with "Now I know MDC kids let their children get away with murder so I won't bother posting anything anymore" it's no skin off us..me. But you'll be missing opportunities to think about children, discipline and respect in new ways.
post #30 of 148
Thread Starter 
UUmom, what I'm sorry for is that I seem to have upset you. I feel badly about that.

Please .... the thumbsup was not being sarcastic.
post #31 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joan
The whole punishment/consequence thing has been debated here elsewhere, but this is an 18 year old we're talking about, right?
Oh my, I think I missed that this was about an 18 year old. That's a young woman IMO, and as Joan stated, I would be treating her like an adult for sure.
post #32 of 148
Jumping in here to say that if the 'leaving the computer on all night" is such a big issue to you (believe me, I'm the crunchiest person I know, but I won't be that freaked out about it) the easiest thing to do is to set the power settings so that after the computer is left on for X minutes without activity (30? 60?) it turns off by itself.

If it's a PC made in the last 3 years or so, you can set it to hibernate which freezes everything that was open exactly the way it was - so if she's in the middle of an e-mail when it falls asleep, when she turns on the computer in the morning, the e-mail will be right there on the screen, along with any other programs she had on when it turned off, and it also takes about 30 seconds to turn on instead of 3 minutes. but it is 100% off so no electricity used at night.

best of all, she doesn't have to remember to turn it off. Gee, I'm only 27 so I remember being 18 quite vividly and I used to fall asleep with the TV or computer or stereo on all the time. Have a sleep or hibernate setting takes care of that with no fuss.
post #33 of 148
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the suggestions on the specific example I used in my initial post. As you said, there are a number of simple solutions and, in our case, this small disagreement was resolved that same morning in a way that was satisfactory to all concerned. I was merely using it as an example in order to stimulate ideas from others about how they have used consequences (as Joan worded her post, 'not being inclined to lend a car' for example) with their teens, whether they be 13 or 19 years of age.
post #34 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by UUMom
I don't understand why there are *so many* non- GD people asking for advice on MDC when there are so many other uncreative and punitive sites devoted to teaching adults how to control children.
I dont understand why there are *so many* non-consequence based GD moms who insist that those of us who practice GD with consequences are not GD.
I think this is just the place to find creative ideas regarding consequences. Those of us who practice GD with consequences have no more in common with the mainstream "beat the devil out of them" attitude than you do. And so we come here to share with each other.
There are some GD authors who are very anti punishment and anti logical consequences. However that is not the definition for GD for all of us.
Joline
post #35 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by nonconformnmom
UUmom, what I'm sorry for is that I seem to have upset you. I feel badly about that.

Please .... the thumbsup was not being sarcastic.

I am not upset. These discussions energize me more than anything. Plus, my kids love reading them.
post #36 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by johub
I dont understand why there are *so many* non-consequence based GD moms who insist that those of us who practice GD with consequences are not GD.
I think this is just the place to find creative ideas regarding consequences. Those of us who practice GD with consequences have no more in common with the mainstream "beat the devil out of them" attitude than you do. And so we come here to share with each other.
There are some GD authors who are very anti punishment and anti logical consequences. However that is not the definition for GD for all of us.
Joline

By no stetch of the imagination is shaming children or punishing them GD in my book. I also see more and more than people are trying use the word 'consequences' when they really mean 'punish'.

I' m never gonna buy those apples and oranges.
post #37 of 148
"Not in your book"? You have hit the nail on the head here.

There are as many ideas about what GD is as there are authors who promote it and parents who practice it.

Your book is not the only book.

Some GD authors are againt all parent involved consequencs. SOme promote logical consequences (Anthony WOlf, removing the means of misbehavior for example). Some even use time out. (William Sears)
Even LLL defines Gentle Discipline in a way which suggests punishments not be overused or done lightly, however they have not defined GD to mean they must be excluded all together.
Everybody defines "punishment" and "consequences" differently.

Some might say William Sears is not GD. In my opinion Sears is often the first exposure to GD that some parents have. I for one would be hesitant to define in any way which excludes Dr Sears.

So again this leads us to teh question "What is GD?" which is followed by the
obvious question "Who decides?".

I say we all decide for ourselves within certain general perameters.

What is gentle for me and my family might not e gentle enough for you and yours.

And what is discipline in your family might not fit in mine.

That is OK. I do not attempt to suggest that your way (or anybody's way) on handling discipline is wrong, even though it does not fit my philosophies and my purpose as a parent.
I only hope for the same respect in return.

This forum is our common ground. THis is where we can bring our concerns that we do not bring to the general public.

If I asked my best friend about the best way to handle my daughter's mouthiness I would probably get a comment about how effective slapping her 8 year old's face has been in eliminating mouthiness.
If I asked my MIL how to deal with a toddler who bites she would tell me to bite himback.

I belong here because I choose GD for my family and I seek conversation with other GD families. And I will stand up and refuse to accept attempts to make GD exclusive to only one view of what it means.

You may not think that the way some of us do things is GD. And you have every right to think so. But that doesnt make it so. And it doesnt mean we dont belong here.

Joline

AP mama and I do GD Sears style (with a little Anthony Wolf for flavor)
post #38 of 148
Thread Starter 
I am new to gentle discipline, though I am finding that much of it fits with my instincts as a parent. Last night I did some reading and, the gentle discipline material I've seen suggests that consequences can be used two ways: punitively, or as opportunities to teach. The difference lies in the intent of the parent.

No one, on MDC or anywhere else, can claim to have the ability to discern the intent of another parent.

In the example that I used to start this post (and again, it was only meant as an example, not as a request for help with it), my intent was to use the consequence of limiting my daughter's access to my online log-in, by inviting her to read the first chapter of a book that I had been hoping she would read on her own but she has not been interested. By giving her that learning opportunity, it created the incentive she needed to read the book and, as a result, we had a very good discussion in which learning occurred, for both her and I.

Was I shaming my daughter by inviting her to read a book with me? My daugher and I have a long history of reading books together and discussion them. I did not stand her up in front of everyone in our family and say, "And now, teenager, you must read this book because you've been bad! Very bad!' It was nothing of the sort. It was between just the two of us; a casual offer of a choice whereby she could get what she wanted sooner, and I could get what I wanted, which was to share the book with her. Everyone wins.
post #39 of 148
So are you saying shame and punishment are GD if people decide they are? I let my baby CIO, but I am still a respectful parent? I am still "AP' because I say I am?

ETA a question mark after 'respectful parent'.
post #40 of 148
"Effective discipline is based on loving guidance. It is based on the belief that children are born innately good and that our role as parents is to nurture their spirits as they learn about limits and boundaries, rather than to curb their tendencies toward wrongdoing. Effective discipline presumes that children have reasons for their behavior and that cooperation can be engaged to solve shared problems. "

That's Peggy O'Mara's description of effective, gentle discipline, and the one that these boards follow. I don't see punishment as fitting into this - how does that presume that children have reasons for their behaviors, and how does it engage their cooperation in problem solving? How does it nurture their spirits?

Dar
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